GUILTY AK - Kristy Manzanares, 39, killed aboard Emerald Princess, Juneau, 25 July 2017 *husband arrested*

[gitana1]

Actually, thinking about it some more, the fact that he tried to throw her overboard shows intent to kill imo. Everybody in this day and age knows that someone lying on the ground after an attack and appearing to be dead, not breathing etc, could possibly be revived. Many have been revived if help gets there soon enough. So, instead of getting help when she was down, he proceeded to make sure she would stay dead by trying to throw her in the ocean. She might not have even have been dead yet when he did that, who knows. She might just have stopped breathing, maybe her heart was still beating.

Do we know how long after the witness held on to her ankles and security entered the room a doctor came to establish whether she was deceased? Did anyone try CPR at all?

To me I think it shows he was trying to cover up his crime. Or maybe he was still in a rage and after hitting her was trying to throw her overboard. Nothing about this case smacks of a murderer who planned the crime or gave it much thought.

 

[pamelado2]

Will this be prosecuted federally? If so will the federal definitions of murder and subsequent punishment be used rather than Alaska's?

Good question - since the coast guard stepped aside for the FBI according to the press conference, I think it would be federal guidelines.

 

[pamelado2]

She supposedly began laughing hysterically at him and wouldn't stop. He got really angry over this and killed her. When people entered the room, he even tried to throw her body overboard.
www.newser.com/s246375



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hysterically? Where did you get that term? I don't see it in the article you referenced.

 

[Owl4]

This says everything about who he is. I remember watching an episode of COPS once years ago where the dad shoved his wife and kicked her in the chest. She died. They showed the paramedics frantically trying to revive her but it was clear she was gone. There were kids there screaming and crying (I can't believe they showed all that.

Clearly only an abuser would harm his wife or girlfriend in such a way. But the man was crying over and over, "what have I done? I didn't mean too!"

Not this guy. He ctied that his life was over and then tried to toss the body overboard. That tells me what kind of man he is. Abusive and remorseless.



The facts don't lend themselves to premeditation. I think the irl was referring to on-going issues of violence on his part.



The fact that he was trying to dispose of a body in full view of relatives who trying to stop him shows he was out of control, not vacillating, IMO.



True. But that's not the kind of case usually prosecuted as first degree murder. This seems like a solid second degree case- a rage killing.

I remember seeing that episode on cops many years ago also! This monster needs to be locked up for good. Those poor children. Now both parents are gone. Rest peacefully. Sad

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

[LvsAMystry]

Time Required

Time alone doesn’t determine whether a defendant premeditated and deliberated. All premeditation and deliberation require is the time it takes to form the intent, ponder the crime, and then act. Defendants can premeditate and deliberate in a matter of minutes, as long as the thought process occurs before the act.
There is no specific formula for determining whether a defendant premeditated and deliberated before acting. Courts and juries will consider the circumstances of each case.
EXAMPLE: A defendant convicted of first degree murder for strangling a victim with a lamp cord premeditated the murder. The evidence showed that the defendant repositioned the cord around the victim’s neck numerous times, each time giving him the opportunity to reflect on his actions. The defendant had also had time to consider his actions during a struggle with the victim prior to the strangulation, further proving premeditation. (Berube v. State, 5 So.3d 734 (Fla. 2nd DCA 2009).)

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-premeditated-deliberate-conduct.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder though, and more facts will tell, if it will come down to intent aka was the intent to stop the "laughing" even if by causing harm or was the intent to actually murder?

 

[HMSHood]

An injustice collector....that was the terminology I was trying to think of when I typed that post. YES! I agree he was smouldering with envy at his wife's successful career when he was not as successful in his own eyes. Instead of being content in their relationship he was always comparing himself to her - and becoming more and more resentful and envious and as always - controlling.
I still think being confined to their accommodation quarters was the last straw - she had nowhere to go to get away from him.

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:
1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.


Here are more with 20 characteristics
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4. Injustice collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combination of legislator, police, judge and jury to those they consider their subjects. They forever banish from their kingdom any subject they deem disloyal, and only grant clemency if there is sufficient (in their eyes) contrition.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

8. Injustice collectors do not have a capacity for remorse, empathy or guilt.

9. Injustice collectors scoff at the idea of therapy, therapists, self-help books, and other tools used by people who struggle to live with them.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

11. The IC (injustice Collector) will prey upon your weaknesses to frame all issues in their terms.

12. IC's will always cry foul when you are 'mean' to them and accuse you of being nasty when you are confronting them with their negative behavior.

13. They are titanically insecure and cannot trust anyone. All relationships they have, even with their own parents and children and trustless and must be reinforced by subordination over and over.

14. They can only strengthen relationships through imprisoning their mates and banning behaviors and other relationships. Friends and family are a huge threat to the IC.

15. They must repetitively revisit situations where you service them, give in to them and agree with them. They will over time shrink your world to a small plot of empty activities that only they like. They are terrified of travel, meeting new people, understanding new concepts and paroling you from any punishment they have previously 'convicted' you of.

16. They do not care about you at all, they care about aggrandizing themselves with you as an assistant producer.

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.

18. They will force you to choose between them and other things you like or love. The more you choose them, the more they will make you choose them over and over. They do not understand the concept of loyalty at all.

19. Hypocrisy is their modus operandi for debating and arguing with you. Everything they say about you is true about them. (aka Projection) It makes it so you try to 'win' fights by getting them to agree with you, which they never can because their whole position is false.

20. Your life will disappear into their lives. Your hopes and dreams will fade, even in your own mind. You will eat what they want, you will watch what they want on TV, you will vacation where they want, or not at all.

Looking at injustice collector characteristics, it is narcissism, which it is at heart. Injustice collector is another term for extreme narcissism. Envy often occurs with narcissism.

Connection between narcissism and envy explained
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130212172025.htm

The Narcissist and Jealousy
http://thenarcissisticlife.com/the-narcissist-and-jealousy/

Not all narcissists are consumed by envy, but many are. Some extreme narcissists are clearly consumed by envy like Elliot Rodger, Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, Lori Drew, and Osama bin Laden. Some are not like Diane Downs or Jerry Sandusky.

 

[LvsAMystry]

He had All of his/her? family in adjoining rooms/ a few doors AWAY! What did this woman deal with when NO ONE was around???
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

True, very good point. That makes me feel sicker for those poor girls.

 

[FieryNugget]

Whose definition is that exactly?
Here is what legal dictionary says.


. "planning, plotting or deliberating before doing something. Premeditation is an element in first degree murder and shows intent to commit that crime. (See: malice aforethought, murder, first degree murder)"

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/premeditation

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-premeditated-deliberate-conduct.html


EXAMPLE: A defendant convicted of first degree murder for strangling a victim with a lamp cord premeditated the murder. The evidence showed that the defendant repositioned the cord around the victim’s neck numerous times, each time giving him the opportunity to reflect on his actions. The defendant had also had time to consider his actions during a struggle with the victim prior to the strangulation, further proving premeditation. (Berube v. State, 5 So.3d 734 (Fla. 2nd DCA 2009).)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pamelado2]

The child/children on the cruise with them said he was always violent to their mother and they knew he would kill their mother one day.
.

Where is the reference for this? I haven't seen anything that had this quite quote. The only thing I saw was something like - "I knew he would do this".

 

[IQuestion]

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:
1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.


Here are more with 20 characteristics
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4. Injustice collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combination of legislator, police, judge and jury to those they consider their subjects. They forever banish from their kingdom any subject they deem disloyal, and only grant clemency if there is sufficient (in their eyes) contrition.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

8. Injustice collectors do not have a capacity for remorse, empathy or guilt.

9. Injustice collectors scoff at the idea of therapy, therapists, self-help books, and other tools used by people who struggle to live with them.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

11. The IC (injustice Collector) will prey upon your weaknesses to frame all issues in their terms.

12. IC's will always cry foul when you are 'mean' to them and accuse you of being nasty when you are confronting them with their negative behavior.

13. They are titanically insecure and cannot trust anyone. All relationships they have, even with their own parents and children and trustless and must be reinforced by subordination over and over.

14. They can only strengthen relationships through imprisoning their mates and banning behaviors and other relationships. Friends and family are a huge threat to the IC.

15. They must repetitively revisit situations where you service them, give in to them and agree with them. They will over time shrink your world to a small plot of empty activities that only they like. They are terrified of travel, meeting new people, understanding new concepts and paroling you from any punishment they have previously 'convicted' you of.

16. They do not care about you at all, they care about aggrandizing themselves with you as an assistant producer.

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.

18. They will force you to choose between them and other things you like or love. The more you choose them, the more they will make you choose them over and over. They do not understand the concept of loyalty at all.

19. Hypocrisy is their modus operandi for debating and arguing with you. Everything they say about you is true about them. (aka Projection) It makes it so you try to 'win' fights by getting them to agree with you, which they never can because their whole position is false.

20. Your life will disappear into their lives. Your hopes and dreams will fade, even in your own mind. You will eat what they want, you will watch what they want on TV, you will vacation where they want, or not at all.

Looking at injustice collector characteristics, it is narcissism, which it is at heart. Injustice collector is another term for extreme narcissism. Envy often occurs with narcissism.

Connection between narcissism and envy explained
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130212172025.htm

The Narcissist and Jealousy
http://thenarcissisticlife.com/the-narcissist-and-jealousy/

Not all narcissists are consumed by envy, but many are. Some extreme narcissists are clearly consumed by envy like Elliot Rodger, Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, Lori Drew, and Osama bin Laden. Some are not like Diane Downs or Jerry Sandusky.

HMSHOOD Bravo! Encore! You nailed it!! Your post was so fabulous, I just wanted it to appear a second time!! :takeabow::takeabow::takeabow:
My hubs has a friend from his younger days, who totally fits the bill. He gets a job, and within 3 months he starts telling everyone how "he can run the place." Employers quickly figure out his "problem/game" and dump him. He has been terminated from 7 different jobs just in the last 10 years. His "gotta be right, at all costs" attitude is freakin' scary.... (We were so happy when he moved out of state.)

 

[lonetraveler]

Interesting snippet from that board.

"When on the Ultimate Ship Tour on the Grand last month, one of the stops was the infirmary/hospital. Questions about deaths during a cruise came up. The doctor hosting that section of the tour said on average a death occurs every two weeks. And that is on that ship alone. Once, several years ago, they had three on a single 7 night cruise. Most are due to natural causes or illness, with no mention of the frequency of foul play.

That means that the average ship might have to deal with 26 deaths per year!"

This web site has information on all crimes committed on cruises. I found this site when I was planning a cruise with my granddaughter. I was concerned about taking her and wanted to know the statistics. Rather eye-opening. Most people would never even think that these crimes are so common onboard.
http://www.cruisebruise.com

 

[borndem]

Time Required

Time alone doesn’t determine whether a defendant premeditated and deliberated. All premeditation and deliberation require is the time it takes to form the intent, ponder the crime, and then act. Defendants can premeditate and deliberate in a matter of minutes, as long as the thought process occurs before the act.
There is no specific formula for determining whether a defendant premeditated and deliberated before acting. Courts and juries will consider the circumstances of each case.
EXAMPLE: A defendant convicted of first degree murder for strangling a victim with a lamp cord premeditated the murder. The evidence showed that the defendant repositioned the cord around the victim’s neck numerous times, each time giving him the opportunity to reflect on his actions. The defendant had also had time to consider his actions during a struggle with the victim prior to the strangulation, further proving premeditation. (Berube v. State, 5 So.3d 734 (Fla. 2nd DCA 2009).)

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-premeditated-deliberate-conduct.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, FieryNugget. Here is the U.S. code for "Murder" --

(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.Any other murder is murder in the second degree.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1111

It is essentially the same in our state regulations -- some include "however short" when defining "aforethought" as well. Shooting a gun is an interesting argument since it would seem to be not even short, but you do have to pick up the weapon & take aim, IMO. Strangulation does take seconds to minutes -- there is time to stop -- as with stabbing and beating, IMO.

We'll see.

ETA -- The only Federal case I have followed is Jeffrey MacDonald -- he was charged with two counts of 2nd Degree (his wife & older daughter) and with 1st Degree in the killing of his younger daughter -- they said that he had to go into the little girl's bedroom, pick her up & stab her to death & he was then in "cold blood." Of course he was convicted of all & given life sentences.

If you read all of the statute in what I cited, it does say that 1st degree is "death or by imprisonment for life," and then it says "imprisoned for any term of years or for life" for 2nd Degree.

 

[FieryNugget]

Can anyone confirm the manner of death in this case?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Can anyone confirm the manner of death in this case?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...3.*Cause of Death Is Pending, but Authorities Say Manzanares Suffered Head Wound

The federal affidavit describes a grisly scene:*Kristy was found in a pool of her own blood and she had a severe head wound, but authorities have declined to release other details in the case.

An autopsy to determine the cause and manner of death will be completed in Juneau, Alaska...

http://people.com/crime/5-things-to-know-kristy-manzanares-murder/

 

[HMSHood]

HMSHOOD Bravo! Encore! You nailed it!! Your post was so fabulous, I just wanted it to appear a second time!! :takeabow::takeabow::takeabow:
My hubs has a friend from his younger days, who totally fits the bill. He gets a job, and within 3 months he starts telling everyone how "he can run the place." Employers quickly figure out his "problem/game" and dump him. He has been terminated from 7 different jobs just in the last 10 years. His "gotta be right, at all costs" attitude is freakin' scary.... (We were so happy when he moved out of state.)

Your husband's friend definitely is an injustice collector. They are such control freaks and very rigid in nature. They are easy to anger.

 

[Koshka]

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:

snipped by me......

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.


Looking at injustice collector characteristics, it is narcissism, which it is at heart. Injustice collector is another term for extreme narcissism. Envy often occurs with narcissism.

Connection between narcissism and envy explained
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130212172025.htm

The Narcissist and Jealousy
http://thenarcissisticlife.com/the-narcissist-and-jealousy/

Not all narcissists are consumed by envy, but many are. Some extreme narcissists are clearly consumed by envy like Elliot Rodger, Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, Lori Drew, and Osama bin Laden. Some are not like Diane Downs or Jerry Sandusky.

OMG, yes. That was my lived experience (so was the rest of the list, but that one really got me). Living with a narcissist is sheer hell. If that's the case here, I can imagine what her life was like.

 

[borndem]

I think it was premeditated.

Even the daughter was quoted as saying she knew he'd do something like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's obvious he lost his temper -- if he meant to kill her, he must have found a weapon somewhere -- he apparently wasn't carrying a gun, so he had to find a weapon -- I guess just slapping her in the face wasn't enuff -- so he took the t-i-m-e to look around -- he found one -- he could have stopped right there ("What am I doing?!") -- but he didn't. SMH. Quick, yes, but it took a bit of time, "however short." I think a case could be made for 1st Degree. I don't know how the Feds do their "verdict sheets" for the jury, but State courts often give the jurors a choice of 2nd Degree verdict, usually to avoid a hung jury. JMO.

 

[borndem]

It's interesting to take a look at AK law regarding first and second degree murder. It appears that the difference between first degree and second degree murder is intent. Is the intent to cause death or is the intent to cause serious physical injury (knowing that the conduct could cause death)? That's going to be tricky for LE to determine and we certainly don't know whether he intended to kill her or injure her. But he certainly would know that beating her on the head could cause death, so the least charge he can face would be second degree murder.

I imagine LE also considers his actions after killing her. But I'm not sure that attempting to drag her to the balcony (presumably to throw her overboard) necessarily indicates that he had intended to kill her. But it certainly makes him look worse. I'll be interested to know how they view that. And of course, if he recently purchased a few large life insurance policies on her, all bets are off IMO.

A defense for murder is "heat of passion" in a reasonable (not intoxicated) person resulting from serious provocation by the victim. However, insulting words or gestures by the victim do not constitute serious provocation. There goes the "she wouldn't stop laughing at me" defense.

All italics by me...

Sec. 11.41.100. Murder in the first degree. (a) A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if (1) with intent to cause the death of another person, the person (A) causes the death of any person;

Sec. 11.41.110. Murder in the second degree. (a) A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if
(1) with intent to cause serious physical injury to another person or knowing that the conduct is substantially certain to cause death or serious physical injury to another person, the person causes the death of any person;
(2) the person knowingly engages in conduct that results in the death of another person under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to the value of human life;

Sec. 11.41.115. Defenses to murder. (a) In a prosecution under AS 11.41.100(a)(1)(A) or 11.41.110(a)(1), it is a defense that the defendant acted in a heat of passion, before there had been a reasonable opportunity for the passion to cool, when the heat of passion resulted from a serious provocation by the intended victim.

(2) "serious provocation" means conduct which is sufficient to excite an intense passion in a reasonable person in the defendant's situation, other than a person who is intoxicated, under the circumstances as the defendant reasonably believed them to be; insulting words, insulting gestures, or hearsay reports of conduct engaged in by the intended victim do not, alone or in combination with each other, constitute serious provocation.

http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/statutes.asp#11.41.100

This case will be tried in Federal Court -- in a Federal District somewhere in Alaska - located in Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, Ketchikan and Nome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_District_of_Alaska

 

[borndem]

Will this be prosecuted federally? If so will the federal definitions of murder and subsequent punishment be used rather than Alaska's?

Yes -- the murder did not occur in Alaska, nor in international waters, but in US waters, so the Feds took charge at the scene and they will charge and try him.

 

[Elley Mae]

The death did not occur in international waters, but in U.S. waters. However, the area is outside of Alaska jurisdiction, in this case requiring the assistance of the FBI, which responded immediately after the determination that the death was suspect.

http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/FBI-investigating-cruise-ship-death-436754183.html

A different witness, Brian Eckstrom, said he was with his family when a captain came on the intercom saying security needed to go to a certain floor.

"I get to floor nine," he said, "I see this little girl sitting on - I assume - her grandma or somebody, sitting on her lap wrapped up in a blanket. And she's just sobbing.

"A man came walking out from the hallway where it happened," he continued, "and he had, like, a white tank top on, and some jeans. His jeans were completely covered in blood and he came out saying, 'It's not good, it's not good.'"

Special Agent in Charge Marlin Ritzman of the FBI Anchorage said there are two specialists on hand to support the family of Kristy Manzanares, including her children.

"In an incident like this, the FBI does deploy victim specialists," he said. "One from Anchorage and one from Seattle, and in an instance like this, they would absolutely be supporting."