AK, NY Israel Keyes - Who are all of his victims???

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Lucky 1 said:
I think it would be great if we could do a poll of members, see just how many victims we all think will be the final tally.

Me, personally? We will never know. They will never find all of them, nor be able to link him to them if they do. Because in the beginning, I think this was all about killing and torturing things, quietly, getting his rocks off. Didn't want to get caught because he would have to stop. And back then, he was really careful. Hid things really well. Later on, his ego got the better of him and he wanted the notoriety and fame he saw other, "lesser" killers receiving....wanted his due. IIRC he expressed disdain for BTK because he confessed and said he was sorry, IK thought that was lame and weak.

And, FWIW, ITA with Foxfire on him getting himself caught with Samantha's ATM card. That was incredibly stupid, reckless, and completely unnecessary. He HAD to know that was going to lead them straight to him. IMVHO.....and apparently didn't care, or wanted that. IMO, either for the fame and notoriety, which would be utter BS if what he claimed about wanting to protect his daughter were true. Unless!! he thought that getting caught, giving up enough information to get the death penalty quickly and quietly and go away forever would be protecting her. Hmmmmmmm.

He was at one of his younger sisters weddings. Any father would be thinking about his daughter growing up and getting married. Her future. Not to mention that his family was preaching at him at every turn, for hours at a time. Maybe he thought him getting caught would be the best way to secure her future.

Just my demented ramblings for the day. :twocents:
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great idea Lucky1 about the poll....My 2 cents and opinion here....I am with you...I don't think every victim will ever be linked to him and moo---I think Keyes started way before 2001...Yes he would have been young but at 14 he was already breaking into homes...carrying a "gun" with him everywhere he went, as released in the newest press release...In my mind I wonder if some of those homes were set on fire by arson???....I just tend to think after he saw he could break in homes, steal many things...he more or likely killed a few while in these homes..as he said "I got away with this because no one would think of a boy my age breaking and entering"...even if it would have been him breaking in homes it may have been him killing any known family pets..but he got his "URGE" I feel at a very very young age and I know I keep bringing up the subject of not being able to find anything in all my reading and searching on the Father.....I just get a feeling Keyes learned some bad behavior from someone in that family and while I have been reading on some other cases that date back before Keyes known times...Some are almost a match to his known ways makes me wonder if somehow the father might have been doing some "funny work" also, we know the children in this family all state they were raised in a very strict home environment..but "strict" could mean several different things to me...and I go back once again to some known childhood friends the Kehoe's...Their father was arrested along with the sons and he was convicted of the breaking in of the home where the father, mother and the daughter were all killed, only for the Kehoe's to gain access to the Gun Collection of this family...so could Father Keyes been somewhat like Kirby Kehoe??.....I know we are on here to try and find possible victims of IK....but sometimes having a better understanding of family members will sure make it easier to know exactly where to start

On IK'S victims....As released in new article...He has already traveled more miles that Bundy did, I feel there will probably be a number higher than Bundy..seems he was in this also to out-do his idols and etc...I think he wanted to be the newest High Number Killer...I put it at 70 plus and I feel if there is a possible way, he will be known to have killed outside the US also....Egypt???....Belize for almost 1 month...Mexico and I don't think his travel timeline is finished yet, as the FBI searches more and learns more I believe it will become larger and larger...but this is all moo and based on my inner thoughts on IK
 
Snoopster said:
If anyone can highlight anything new for those of us who don't h

ave access to HLN, it would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

Snoopster, I watched all the programs....there was not 1 thing I heard that was new...Nancy G more or less sat and gave the story and a lot of the newly released investigation tapes were played, actually some were played on all 3 shows....MOO...I feel they did this to get his name out in public a lot more and to let the public get a picture of just how his workings were and etc...for that I highly tip my hat to all involved, but was hoping for some new info myself...lol
 
:eek:hwow: So, we are all working the same leads?

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/alaska-investigators-say-keyes-felt-high-serial-killings

That lack of publicity has frustrated Russo, who said there's no nationwide database for missing adults as there is for children. Trying to find missing victims has instead involved looking at websites run by family members or others seeking information about the missing.

"It was strange that in this day and age, we were all resorting to Googling," he said.
Click to expand...

Guess they are reading here, huh? :seeya:

Well, I hope we have thrown them some bones.
 
Foxfire said:
To: Control the investigation, while taunting the investigators & prosecutors by preventing Justice from being served.. 'Checkmate'.. Assistant U.S. Attorney for Alaska Frank Russo doubts all the bodies will be found. "I feel like we lost this case,"

* increase his notoriety..
*prevent releasing the identities & locations of his unknown victims & caches; his only *assets/possessions..

"The question is not why, but why not"? Quote: Israel Keyes
Click to expand...

The fact that he committed suicide does not surprise me for the reasons you stated. But I'm saying how does that mesh with the claim he was trying to avoid the death penalty???
 
I hate to bring this up because my memory is terrible and i can not recall where or what case i seen it on .For some reason I think it was either about the trenton duckett case or it was a case that was on the old A&E show with bill curtis called american justice or/ cold case files ..Iam hoping someone may remember what iam talking about ...Ok so I recall the LE and i dont know what Le so i know it sucks but i do recall what happend so they were doing a dig just using dogs and shovels and i believe it was in a national forest and they thought they maybe had found the site of a burried body but after digging down a few feet or so they discovered a duffell bag and inside this bag was guns and zip ties amo and i think even some items of clothing . I can remember even though it was not related to whatever case they were working on but they on the program still showed back at the police station they had removed all the items out of the duffel bag and had them on a table ...again i so so wish i could remember if it was in the i think ocala national forest if thats what it is called or a nother big national forest in BC i just cant remember .Iam hoping someone else on here maybe saw this episode of whatever show it was on and has a much better memory then me ...Obviously the reason i bring this up is IK and his cache's of weapons he would hide cause thats precisely what they found .Hopefull someone else might remember this also sorry i cant remember just where this happend or on what show.
 
Where did Foxfire say he was trying to avoid the death penalty??? That was IK's whole game. He wanted to be executed within a year.

Some of us have been working very hard on this for a long time, well before JVM and NG got ahold of it.
 
Hey sorry this is too posts in a row sorry ..Im just wondering your thoughts on the interogation tapes . Does anyone else think they should have maybe tried to go a different route maybe playing hardball a bit being you know not beat him but be stricter pissed off mad..personally i think once he got caught . he wanted to talk and i think the best way to get him to talk woulda been to leave him in his jail cell for a year with out even one interview . i think it woulda drove him nuts then after a long long period i woulda brought him in and the first time he started to play his game i woulda got up walked out said take him back to his cell...i know it might of took a year or too but its not like he solving cases any faster doing it the IK way...
 
neuronmisfire said:
The fact that he committed suicide does not surprise me for the reasons you stated. But I'm saying how does that mesh with the claim he was trying to avoid the death penalty???
Click to expand...

neuronmisfire, IK wasn't trying to avoid the death penalty. He was controlling the investigators by using the ruse of demanding that they promise an execution within one year. IK, knew they couldn't honor or make this promise...Head Games..
 
Foxfire said:
neuronmisfire, IK wasn't trying to avoid the death penalty. He was controlling the investigators by using the ruse of demanding that they promise an execution within one year. IK, knew they couldn't honor or make this promise...Head Games..
Click to expand...

Ok, now I get what you are saying. Nancy Grace actually had the nerve to say she thought he was avoiding the death penalty by giving them dribbles of info. that to me made no sense.
 
CanManEh said:
Hey sorry this is too posts in a row sorry ..Im just wondering your thoughts on the interogation tapes . Does anyone else think they should have maybe tried to go a different route maybe playing hardball a bit being you know not beat him but be stricter pissed off mad..personally i think once he got caught . he wanted to talk and i think the best way to get him to talk woulda been to leave him in his jail cell for a year with out even one interview . i think it woulda drove him nuts then after a long long period i woulda brought him in and the first time he started to play his game i woulda got up walked out said take him back to his cell...i know it might of took a year or too but its not like he solving cases any faster doing it the IK way...
Click to expand...

I wondered that too. Obviously control is was really important to IK. Maybe if they had made him feel he wasn't in control of any of it, he would have gotten angry and lost it (like he did with Bill Currier).
 
Yep I agree just like the death penelaty . If this guy was all about the control just how was he gonna act when he is on death row when he barely has control of his cell and being led to the table how much controll are you in when ther strapping you down i think he woulda lost it I think he was terrified of being confined in that table and thats why he killed himself .remember bundy he was all about control too hey ill give you this if you hold off on that untill the detectives said enough all the whole month leading up to going to the chair he was desperete pleading look dont put me in the chair and ill give you all the names but the detectives had enough said screw it I know it sucks for other familly members that have lost ones and dont know and suspect bundy but they had enough of his games and at the end he broke he never gave the names because he was to busy trying to save his life he was offering all his victoms hell he was offering to help catch zodiac and BTK for them if they would just listen and call off the electric chair..
 
Anyone can talk the talk while thier in control in a confrence room with cops offering you coffee and cigars ..
 
Malignant, Sadistic, Psychopath Israel Keyes, was a chameleon(lizard), a master of emulation, he was a copycat of many serial killers prior, with an added twist of his own evil creativity. He read mystery novels, studied predators prior, and then emulated the many MOs & signatures of other notorious serial killers such as Berkowitz/Son of Sam, Richard Ramirez, Robert Hansen, and Ted Bundy.

IK , had the FBI BAU & VICAP, confused, imo, due to his mode of operation & signatures morphing, forensic & investigative awareness, body disposal techniques, and was considered to be a 'Hybrid Stealth Predator'...

IK, military trained, was very disciplined and strictly adhered to his unique rules of prey, until abducting Samantha Koenig. He was deemed a geographically transient predator until he violated this critical rule.

From observation IK's Rules of prey:

* Always go dark & change modes of transportation a minimum of three times.
* Never abduct close to home base
* Always choose strangers
* Never leave witnesses alive
* Never have a motive.
* Never follow an obvious pattern.
* Never carry a firearm after use.
* Beware of leaving indictable residue; clues, forensics, bodies..
* Abort the mission that may have potentially undesirable or disastrous consequences.
* Never hunt twice in the same geographical area ot jurisdiction.
* Never share your secrets with others.


Imo, IK, was a collector/souvenirs, documented his evil deeds using pics & video, and would have likely hid them in the vicinity of his kill kits for revisiting..
 
CanManEh said:
Anyone can talk the talk while thier in control in a conference room with cops offering you coffee and cigars ..
Click to expand...

RE: Anyone can talk the talk..

Please don't take this as glorifying IK, but he actually walked the walk..
He took his own life... Guess, you could say that IK had no victim profile, including himself...
 
Lucky 1 said:
I think it would be great if we could do a poll of members, see just how many victims we all think will be the final tally.

Me, personally? We will never know. They will never find all of them, nor be able to link him to them if they do. Because in the beginning, I think this was all about killing and torturing things, quietly, getting his rocks off. Didn't want to get caught because he would have to stop. And back then, he was really careful. Hid things really well. Later on, his ego got the better of him and he wanted the notoriety and fame he saw other, "lesser" killers receiving....wanted his due. IIRC he expressed disdain for BTK because he confessed and said he was sorry, IK thought that was lame and weak.

And, FWIW, ITA with Foxfire on him getting himself caught with Samantha's ATM card. That was incredibly stupid, reckless, and completely unnecessary. He HAD to know that was going to lead them straight to him. IMVHO.....and apparently didn't care, or wanted that. IMO, either for the fame and notoriety, which would be utter BS if what he claimed about wanting to protect his daughter were true. Unless!! he thought that getting caught, giving up enough information to get the death penalty quickly and quietly and go away forever would be protecting her. Hmmmmmmm.

He was at one of his younger sisters weddings. Any father would be thinking about his daughter growing up and getting married. Her future. Not to mention that his family was preaching at him at every turn, for hours at a time. Maybe he thought him getting caught would be the best way to secure her future.

Just my demented ramblings for the day. :twocents:
Click to expand...


I hate to say this, but I have to agree that we'll never know. I think that he was so obsessed and so possessive of his victims (he claimed them as "his people, they belonged to him") that he was willing to die to keep them. All the BS about his demands and wishes for privacy are nothing but a means to and end. That end being keeping his possessions. He deliberately moved victims cars and such to confuse their location and I don't have any reason not to believe he wasn't doing the same thing in his interviews. I think he gave them some things that they could go out and corroborate so they would believe the rest of what he told them in order to deliberately misdirect them to the who's and where's of his victims so that they would never be found and if they were they wouldn't be discovered as "his". In his mind, I think he felt that as long as he could keep his connection to a victim a secret that connection stayed intact. He says his victims where either put weighted into deep water or buried with decomposition inducing agents and if that wouldn't make it difficult enough I think he was obsessive enough to do the job to a degree that would ensure they were never found. There may end up being many missing people that through time and location may be suspected to be his victims but I don't think any of his victims will ever be found. It's incredibly sad for the families but I'm afraid the most positive outcome here will be what can be learned from his fascinating, strange and horrific behavior; and there is certainly a lot to learn. I've personally learned some things about personal safety I had never really considered before and I considered myself observant and careful before.
 
websurfer said:
:lookingitup::hiding::eek:verreaction:


And nobody who knew him saw any of this going on?
Or did they just ignore it maybe?
:twocents:
Click to expand...


Yeah! What Websurfer said!!!

I'm surprised this guy hadn't gotten the FBI's attention for possible domestic terrorist link! A construction worker, with a travel history like this, and no agency was alerted to it? Weird if you ask me, though I know you didn't. ;)
 
2Hope4 said:
Yeah! What Websurfer said!!!

I'm surprised this guy hadn't gotten the FBI's attention for possible domestic terrorist link! A construction worker, with a travel history like this, and no agency was alerted to it? Weird if you ask me, though I know you didn't. ;)
Click to expand...

ITA with you...I wondered the same thing. I also had wondered how IK paid for his flights. Did he use a credit card ? if so,his monthly bills must have been huge.can't see how he ever paid the bills,as he rarely seemed to work at a job. Also don't see how he used a debit card to pay for the same reason. I know he robbed banks. Most bank robbers get away with a few thousand dollars, loose money is very bulky ? Some of the bank money probably had dye on it too,making it unspendable.moo And didn't he supposedly bury his cash ?

I do know that it costs a fortune to fly anyplace from Anchorage. Even flying from there to Seattle isn't cheap... Wonder if IK had another source of income ? jmo moo
 
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