Found Alive AL - Carlethia “Carlee” Russell, 25, 911 call reported toddler walking on side of interstate, car found, she & toddler gone, Birmingham, 13 Jul ‘23 #2

[Rusty Braincells]

Hmm. Could've been having a panic attack.

Source: me, queen of panic attacks.

I find panic attack the most likely scenario in context, although we don’t have the information.

If Carlee was dropped off at her home by someone else and arrived unconscious, this would be in press reports and the police would have arrested the abductor / person who brought her back or be seriously and actively / vocally looking for them.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes it can but I doesn’t appear to in this case. Someone who is unconscious generally wouldn’t be described as “safe”.

“Hoover police are "combing through numerous pieces of evidence" in the disappearance of "Carlee" Nichole Russell after she was returned home alive and safe Saturday night.”

https://www.wvtm13.com/article/carlee-russell-alabama-missing-

well, presumably she regained consciousness at some stage.
If her airway was clear, her breathing unobstructed and her heart beating in normal sinus rhythm those points are noted by paramedics attending a scene.

It depends upon the reason or cause of the state, may be a head injury, may be a whole host of reasons. That information is not open source.

 

[gitana1]

A psychotic break and a mental breakdown are totally different things. A psychotic break involves a disconnect from reality - say, if she went chasing a phantom toddler and got lost deep in the woods somewhere. It would be very unusual for someone to have one so suddenly without anyone noticing any odd behavior beforehand. This case still doesn’t present like one, though it’s always possible for weird things to happen or for family/friends to lie about what they’ve noticed.

A breakdown isn’t a medical term, it’s just vernacular for someone reaching a breaking point, usually from the stress of life situations or non-psychotic mental illnesses. Sometimes people reach a point where they just cannot keep functioning and if they don’t have the option to check themselves into a hospital or take time to rest sometimes that pressure builds until they snap in a very sudden and out of character way. Like hypothetically realizing that they just cannot face another day of their routine but not seeing a way out other than running into the woods and disappearing for a few days. (Not saying that’s what happened, just wanted to give examples for how it might have played out for psychosis vs a general breakdown.)

I do want to say that if this does end up being mental heath related, she deserves empathy for that no matter what the details are. Someone not being in psychosis doesn’t mean they’re in full control of their actions and acting maliciously, either.

I used to think that too but a psychologist told me that a nervous breakdown IS psychosis. I was surprised. @Beginnersleuth? Is that right?

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Gladly.

1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases

www.justice.gov

""In a missing person case, as a matter of cooperation, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) will, at the request of a state or local law enforcement agency, make available the facilities of the FBI Identification Division and the FBI Laboratory."

This is an old link as the Identification Division changed names some years ago, this is the department that checks fingerprints. This link seems to relate to where a body has been found as it mentions the Laboratory too.

That said, the FBI only “automatically” become involved in missing person cases if a kidnapping crosses state lines or a child is involved, otherwise they would likely do nothing else.

 

[MistyWaters]

I read on the last thread that some people watching the traffic video for longer said her car was there for hours after the fact...

this is not how trafficking works or what trafficking looks like.

i am professionally trained in spotting signs of human trafficking (in every way, situational, physical, mental)
we've discussed this already in the previous threads about this but here is additional information.

Recognizing the Signs

As the U.S. anti-trafficking movement has grown in our understanding of this diverse and complex crime, we are learning more about how specific people, such as medical professionals, teachers, truck drivers, and restaurant personnel, in addition to friends and family members, can help identify...

humantraffickinghotline.org

Generational trauma, historic oppression, discrimination, and other societal factors and inequities create community-wide vulnerabilities. Traffickers recognize and take advantage of people who are vulnerable.

People may be vulnerable to trafficking if they:

• Have an unstable living situation
• Have previously experienced other forms of violence such as sexual abuse or domestic violence
• Have run away or are involved in the juvenile justice or child welfare system
• Are undocumented immigrants
• Are facing poverty or economic need
• Have a caregiver or family member who has a substance use issue
• Are addicted to drugs or alcohol

In addition to your comments -

Carlee Russell: anti-trafficking advocate casts doubt on theory that sex traffickers use toddlers to lure and abduct women

When a woman vanished after calling 911 to report a toddler on an interstate, speculation ran wild that the little boy was a sex-trafficker's "lure."

www.insider.com

….”Now — as Russell maintains her silence and her family asks for privacy— the internet wants to know: Did ruthless sex traffickers use a helpless toddler to "lure" an unsuspecting woman?

Probably not, one anti-trafficking organization says. That's just not how traffickers work….

…..It's a common myth, Thulander said, that trafficking often involves kidnapping or physical force. The so-called "luring" of kind-hearted women is another fictitious trafficking trope, she added.

Two years ago, a TikTok video claimed that car seats were being left in public places in North Carolina, as a ploy to lure and abduct — and then traffic — women. The video was viewed more than 13 million times and shared on other social media platforms….”

 

[NeverPersonal]

Hoover police retracing Carlee Russell’s steps find no evidence she was followed

“Carlee’s 911 call remains the only timely report of a child on the interstate and no one has called to report that a child is missing.”

www.al.com

“Each piece of information is helping investigators reconstruct Carlee’s movements during the time she was missing,’’ Hoover police Lt. Keith Czeskleba said.

“This is a tedious process, but it is important to make sure everything is methodically evaluated so that we have the clearest possible picture of what took place from the time Carlee called 911 until she returned home Saturday night.”

Czeskleba said investigators have confirmed that Russell left work from a business at The Summit- which family said was The Woodhouse Day Spa - in Birmingham at approximately 8:20 p.m. She ordered food from a nearby business at The Colonnade – Taziki’s – and drove there.

“It appears she was alone during this time, and we have no evidence that she was being followed,’’ he said.

 

[Alwayswanted2bFBIagent]

Could she have passed out once she was safe at home? Maybe she was acting on an adrenaline rush before she got safely inside the home.
(happened to me once, passed out once the crisis was over)

That’s exactly how your adrenal glands work! I have Addison’s Disease and I can’t produce adrenaline. I also get very easily fatigued when it’s hot and humid and I feel as though I am going to pass out. Who knows how long she went without eating, drinking, how hot it was wherever she was, how long she walked, how far she walked, and if she actually managed to escape from a kidnapper how long did she run for physically?
Those are just factors that can affect your body especially if you have been in a fight or flight situation for a long period of time.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Gonna bring this up again because nobody seems to be talking about it for some reason.

The dispatchers describe a caller saying Carlee's family had reached out to say they had gotten a call from Carlee herself -- who apparently told them she was at the Red Roof Inn along the Montgomery Highway ... only about 5 miles north from where she disappeared. The wording's a little confusing, but it seems the caller was a Red Roof worker.

The first responders also say the front desk staff said they had no one checked in under Carlee's name. It also sounds like Carlee's family was itching to get to the Red Roof Inn to see if she was actually there. It's unclear if they did or not, but cops certainly responded ... as heard in the audio, where somebody gets on the radio to say units have arrived.

Well, I'm not talking about it because it's a lot of he said, she said. Carlee didn't call dispatchers. Her parents didn't call dispatchers. Supposedly Carlee called her parents from the Red Roof Inn, then supposedly her parents called the Red Roof Inn? Why would they do that? If Carlee called her parents, she'd have just told them what room she was in. No call to the front desk needed. No confirmation her family went to the Red Roof Inn. (Though if someone had called claiming to be or see Carlee they likely would have)

I can't take any of it seriously yet. JMO.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I used to think that too but a psychologist told me that a nervous breakdown IS psychosis. I was surprised. @Beginnersleuth? Is that right?

I know you didn’t ask me but… a nervous breakdown doesn’t have a specific definition and manifests differently for different people. It essentially means you can’t cope with life temporarily but is pretty much a catch-all for a person going through extreme unmanageable stress.

It’s quite different to psychosis, which has a specific diagnosis, so I don’t know what that psychologist meant.

 

[BCSleuth]

Gonna bring this up again because nobody seems to be talking about it for some reason.

The dispatchers describe a caller saying Carlee's family had reached out to say they had gotten a call from Carlee herself -- who apparently told them she was at the Red Roof Inn along the Montgomery Highway ... only about 5 miles north from where she disappeared. The wording's a little confusing, but it seems the caller was a Red Roof worker.

The first responders also say the front desk staff said they had no one checked in under Carlee's name. It also sounds like Carlee's family was itching to get to the Red Roof Inn to see if she was actually there. It's unclear if they did or not, but cops certainly responded ... as heard in the audio, where somebody gets on the radio to say units have arrived.

Nobody is touching this because it is off limits. We are not allowed to discuss unconfirmed information from scanners.

 

[MistyWaters]

She was taken to the hospital by the paramedics immediately. Maybe there she calmed down...relatively speaking.

Yes, she had been gone for 48 hours, considering what they knew no doubt her family had began to fear the worst. Regardless of what occurred, so for sure just walking into that house and being met by their reaction would not be described as a calm or peaceful atmosphere.

 

[gitana1]

I agree with you. The public needs to know if they are safe. If Carlee has been hurt, mentally or physically, she may not be able to give specific information until she is of sound mind. If she was kidnapped, she could have easily been drugged. If she has been drugged, she may not be able to provide reliable information for 24-48 hours.

The public should assume (at least women) that two legged predators are everywhere. Be aware. Keep your phone on you and doors locked.

 

[kittythehare]

The public should assume (at least women) that two legged predators are everywhere. Be aware. Keep your phone on you and doors locked.

Exactly.
The public is never safe.

 

[MistyWaters]

I was more or less listening to Grey Hughes live but please, anyone else tuning in could you confirm he indeed said that Carlee’s car stopped for 3 minutes when the call to 911 was made, before travelled a bit further down the road? I surely don’t want to start false rumours but if his analysis identified this I think it’s important to the timeline. Because the call to the brother’s gf fell within 3 minutes as well. Yet Carlee’s cellphone, purse and wig were found near the final stopping place of the car, as if to indicate the scream during the phonecall coincided with a kidnapping struggle taking place.

Unanswered questions linger in Carlee Russell's mysterious disappearance and return

There are still a lot of unanswered questions regarding the disappearance of 25-year-old Carlee Russell, who returned home to her parent's house in Hoover Satur

abc3340.com

• Russell communicated on her cell phone with individuals known to her while on her path of travel up to the point of calling 911 at 9:34 PM. The conversation with the 911 operator ended and Carlee called a relative.
• She went missing during that conversation sometime after 9:36 PM after telling both the 911 operator and the relative she had seen a male toddler in a diaper on the side of I-459 and was stopping to check on him.

 

[txsleuth70]

Wouldn’t that constitute a medical emergency? No crisis was reported.

Passing out, by itself, is not a medical emergency. People pass out & come to, often just fine. If someone passes out, and then stops breathing & is unable to be aroused, you call 911 and start CPR.

 

[BCSleuth]

I was more or less listening to Grey Hughes live but please, anyone else tuning in could you confirm he indeed said that Carlee’s car stopped for 3 minutes when the call to 911 was made, before travelled a bit further down the road? I surely don’t want to start false rumours but if his analysis identified this I think it’s important to the timeline. Because the call to the brother’s gf fell within 3 minutes as well. Yet Carlee’s cellphone, purse and wig were found near the final stopping place of the car, as if to indicate the scream during the phonecall coincided with a kidnapping struggle taking place.

Unanswered questions linger in Carlee Russell's mysterious disappearance and return

There are still a lot of unanswered questions regarding the disappearance of 25-year-old Carlee Russell, who returned home to her parent's house in Hoover Satur

abc3340.com

• Russell communicated on her cell phone with individuals known to her while on her path of travel up to the point of calling 911 at 9:34 PM. The conversation with the 911 operator ended and Carlee called a relative.
• She went missing during that conversation sometime after 9:36 PM after telling both the 911 operator and the relative she had seen a male toddler in a diaper on the side of I-459 and was stopping to check on him.

Video has been posted upthread. It appears the car stops for about 3 minutes just out of view (we can see glow of emergency flashers). It then drives slowly on the shoulder for about 45 seconds, covering perhaps 1/4 mile, and stops again. About 4 minutes later the police arrive.

 

[thebedbug]

Video has been posted upthread. It appears the car stops for about 3 minutes just out of view (we can see glow of emergency flashers). It then drives slowly on the shoulder for about 45 seconds, covering perhaps 1/4 mile, and stops again. About 4 minutes later the police arrive.

I think she wrapped up the 911 call off camera... drove forward... got out... made the quick second call... screamed... dropped her phone... then headed off through the trees.

 

[gitana1]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/16/us/carlee-russell-found-alabama/index.html

From this article, EMS was called to the home where Carlee was assessed and then transported to the hospital. IMO, it does sound like she was harmed in some way rather than just self disappearing. Also, I feel like if LE felt she staged the whole thing, they would be hounding her for info right from the get go, attempting to get the truth from her. The way the chief handles his comments points me more to "lots of patience, nurturing, a sense of safety may be warranted in finding out what has happened" kind of thoughts. Again all IMO.

I don’t know. They kind of felt Sherri Papini was fake from the get go, I believe. But LE is cautious about how they approach those cases. Probably because of the Denise Huskins case:

Vallejo police assumed woman's abduction was hoax because she 'did not act like a kidnapping victim'

Vallejo police say they thought a woman’s kidnapping was a hoax after she reemerged days later wearing sunglasses, carrying an overnight bag and rejected offers to be reunited with her family.

www.latimes.com

Is it possible she has night blindness and was exhausted and thought she saw a toddler on the side of the road then stopped and rolled down a ditch and then walked back home disoriented?
Ever drive when sleep deprived or exhausted? The mind can play tricks on you.

True. But the issue is she called a relative and they heard her speaking to someone: “Are you all right?” That sounds to me like more than the mind and the night playing tricks on her.

<modsnip: Not victim friendly>

people who are mortally wounded talk to the police. something either happened or didn't and i've got to believe the police already have a sense based on their evidence and her cooperation.

Well she wasn’t mortally wounded. Even if she fought for her life. Because she’s alive. And we know she wasn’t that hurt as she was released quickly.

Also, see the above case- I guess kidnapping victims don’t always talk to LE.

Very interesting. The police should read these tweets. It provides a window into what is/was going on in Carlee's world.

JMO.

She seemed tired a lot. Having an hard time with work maybe. And a lot of talk about love and cheating. Etc. Was there anything else that stood out to you?

@positive, (replying to your quote below) this is such a bizarre case.

On the one hand, no one else saw a child. I believe someone would have. And video doesn’t show anyone at her car. Then, she came home after a couple days. Could it be like Abby Hernandez’s case or Sherri Papini’s (and others who faked disappearances/kidnappings to get out of something or get attention or get a break. I still remember a guy who was supposed to be in my 1L class in law school who just left his car on the side of the highway and disappeared for two weeks right before the start of term. The pressure was too much).

But then, she called 911 right away. I mean she couldn’t have known how fast they would’ve gotten there.

Of course, hanging up with LE and calling a relative so they could hear her find a child and then scream, could’ve also been planned.

But how was she not found immediately? I mean the police were there in three minutes. Could she have just been hiding in the dark? How is it she wasn’t found if this was staged?

Her car on driving with the hazards suggests a level of credibility to what she says she saw, whether she really saw it or not. But nothing suggests a level of psychosis that would cause her to have a visual hallucination so powerful she could talk to the hallucination when on the side of the road.
Yet, her tweets indicate a lack of sleep was an issue for her and that can cause psychosis, I’ve been told (by a professional) if it goes on long enough. But no signs of mania that have come out either.

Sigh. Very curious case.

Most, including myself, on this single point of wether or not we see someone on the video, are stating we dont see anyone.
Not stating that no one could be there.
When you go down the list of supposed facts, such as a second car (not seen), a toddler by the road ( not seen), any other people besides the driver of the car (not seen), an abduction (not seen), any other reports from at least 28 cars by my count (not reported), responding officer within 3 minutes not witnessing anything, any of the above facts.
I think you know where MOO, IMHO and whatnot is going.
Life is not a Hollywood movie.

 

[MistyWaters]

Passing out, by itself, is not a medical emergency. People pass out & come to, often just fine. If someone passes out, and then stops breathing & is unable to be aroused, you call 911 and start CPR.

If the reason for a person suddenly becoming unconscious is unknown, it indeed should be a medical emergency. I hope we’ll get better clarification in the coming days. I still believe “unresponsive“ refers to offering details. In a criminal situation/kidnapping scenario timing is of the essence in hopes of making an arrest and we know police have said they plan further interviews with her.

I think everyone felt great relief knowing Carlee arrived home “alive and safe” but now we have her fighting for her life. (Why is that? This is a question I’m pondering to myself.)

 

[katydid23]

Unanswered questions linger in Carlee Russell's mysterious disappearance and return

There are still a lot of unanswered questions regarding the disappearance of 25-year-old Carlee Russell, who returned home to her parent's house in Hoover Satur

abc3340.com

“Police have spoken to Russell once and are following up on that information, however aren't able to publicly share the details from the initial interview. Hoover police plan to follow up with her again to attempt to get a better understanding of what happened and said they will provide information when they are able to do so.”

“Each piece of information is helping investigators reconstruct Carlee’s movements during the time she was missing. This is a tedious process, but it is important to make sure everything is methodically evaluated so that we have the clearest possible picture of what took place from the time Carlee called 911 until she returned home Saturday night," a news release from Hoover Police Department read, which was sent out Monday evening.

A recap of the timeline of events from Thursday night was also laid out again by police:

• Russell left work from a business at The Summit in Birmingham at approximately 8:20 PM. She ordered food from a nearby business at The Colonnade and traveled there. It appears she was alone during this time and investigators have no evidence that she was being followed.
• Russell communicated on her cell phone with individuals known to her while on her path of travel up to the point of calling 911 at 9:34 PM. The conversation with the 911 operator ended and Carlee called a relative.
• She went missing during that conversation sometime after 9:36 PM after telling both the 911 operator and the relative she had seen a male toddler in a diaper on the side of I-459 and was stopping to check on him.
• Traffic camera footage was obtained which depicted this portion of the incident, and that footage is still being analyzed as part of the investigation in conjunction with the 911 call to accurately determine the timeframe.
• Russell’s 911 call remains the only timely report of a child on the interstate and no one has called to report that a child is missing.
• Hoover Police officers arrived on scene within five minutes of being dispatched, and several other officers arrived shortly behind.
• They located Carlee’s wig, cell phone and purse on the roadway near her vehicle, and Russell’s Apple Watch was in her purse. Hoover Police detectives, along with investigators from other local and federal agencies began pursuing possible leads and collecting evidence throughout the day Friday and Saturday.

"The details of that statement are a part of the ongoing investigation which is expected to continue over the next several days. During the initial portion of the investigation, detectives were able to retrace nearly all of Carlee’s steps until the point she went missing and are confident that will continue to be the case," stated Hoover Police.

"Hoover police plan to follow up with her again to attempt to get a better understanding of what happened and said they will provide information when they are able to do so.”

Is it just me, or is the wording --- " will follow up with her again to attempt to get a better understanding of what happened "----kind of odd? It sounds like they didn't understand what she was trying to explain.