AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #1

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The beauty of this country as well as this forum is that we are all entitled to our own opinions. It's nice to know a local police agency can get the job done in spite of all the cronyism our state has . You can't compare the police dept. of a large city to a small town and have them come out equal in terms of manpower, knowledge, training, etc. that is a cold, hard fact and has nothing to do with politics.


Thanks for replying. I wasn't posting an opinion but an experience; I'm certain you understand the difference. Would love to read yours because it is obvious you have had one, politics aside.
 
And we return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of trying to get justice for J.B. and Tracie because, as we are all aware, somebody somewhere knows something.
 
And we return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of trying to get justice for J.B. and Tracie because, as we are all aware, somebody somewhere knows something.

I agree. I have pretty much decided that someone talking is what it will take to crack this case. I haven't posted lately on it because we have pretty much sleuthed it out with the limited knowledge and tools that we as lay persons have.

I really wish the family would join us, or more locals who are acquainted with them. Anyone that might help. It is so frustrating because so many would love to help here but lack of knowledge is preventing it.

ETA- not so much lack of knowledge as just that we have no knowledge of evidence, who or what the police have been able to rule out, etc. we waste time sleuthing people/evidence that LE has long ago been able to rule out. And yes I KNOW there are things they can't release, but its frustrating nonetheless.
 
Veidt, I was thinking of a person who was a routine rapist would be in the database because of a different crime. But, in that they were not raped, then it makes it much different. But, what I think I was saying was what if the semen supplier and the murderer weren't even the same person? The semen supplier might not even be a rapist. He maybe just had some alone time with J.B.'s bra and panties (without J.B. in them). This would be a mistaken identity scenario where someone thought she was wearing a wire and she was being searched. a little convulted...

also... the chain may have been down that night for some reason. so, maybe they were turning around or something?

eta
i guess also i was saying maybe we could eliminate a certain type of killer because he should have showed up on another victim by now even if there was no match to his name.
 
Has anyone seen this new show Cold Justice on TNT? I watched all 8 episodes back to back and I must say I'm impressed with this former prosecutor from Texas and her team. They were able to get indictments in some of the cases by going back over the evidence with fresh eyes. In the show they remind us that most cases are not solved by sitting back and waiting for the perpetrator to appear out of thin air and offer up a confession or waiting on a DNA match to pop up, but through old fashion detective work.

They seem to rely mostly on circumstantial evidence to solve cases. I know that making a case through circumstantial evidence makes certain types cringe but in the real world its how the majority of these cases are solved. I recently heard tell that as much as 73% of murder convictions are predicated upon circumstantial rather than physical evidence.

With the CJ show every case starts with multiple and what seems to be publicly known suspects. As they gather evidence they're able to eliminate the ones that have no involvement leaving the remaining suspect as the most likely offender.

This show has the potential to bring some justice to a lot of family's. I love the fact that the cases are the small town cases that would otherwise go mainly unnoticed and not receive enough attention.




I'm back from what turned out to be a three-month hiatus.

Somehow I missed your return. Welcome back, welcome back, wel-come back.

Glad you're back, killarney was starting to worry about you. :smile:
 
Veidt, I was thinking of a person who was a routine rapist would be in the database because of a different crime. But, in that they were not raped, then it makes it much different. But, what I think I was saying was what if the semen supplier and the murderer weren't even the same person? The semen supplier might not even be a rapist. He maybe just had some alone time with J.B.'s bra and panties (without J.B. in them). This would be a mistaken identity scenario where someone thought she was wearing a wire and she was being searched. a little convulted...

also... the chain may have been down that night for some reason. so, maybe they were turning around or something?

eta
i guess also i was saying maybe we could eliminate a certain type of killer because he should have showed up on another victim by now even if there was no match to his name.

I know what you meant and I agree this narrows down the type a bit. I think whoever did it may even be a serial rapist but is always one step ahead and never gets caught, perhaps he was careless... I wonder if something scared him.
 
A few things in this early article that I wasn't aware of or had forgotten about.

http://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.true-crime/5MDf94eCVfI/discussion

From a interview with JB's sister.

Miss Beasley loved to dance and planned to study it in college, before
moving to New York, Chicago, or Atlanta - places where she could pursue a
career in dance, Ms. Beasley said. She had recently turned in her notice at
her office job to begin teaching dance.

If I'm reading this right JB was or had been employed in the days/weeks that preceded the murders. I wonder what her office job was.


also in the article, and I had forgotten about this damage.

Police have determined that the two friends were shot while in the car's
trunk. There was damage to the car, but nothing that prohibited it from
being driven. Spivey said there is a good chance that the girls were killed
in one place and then driven to Herring Avenue, where the car was found


I can see no damage to the rear of the car in the footage they showed in recent videos on the anniversary. It shows several seconds of the rear of the car with people milling about. So the damage related or not must be towards the front of the car. I Would love to see this damage, the fact that its in the article tells me they think it did occur that night.

side note - also in the video is a shot from behind the car with both doors open, you can clearly see the drivers window is rolled down almost all the way and the passengers side is rolled all the way up. I believe some articles had the drivers window as being cracked or slightly opened.


The two girls would have begun their senior year Tuesday at Dothan's Northview High School, which is on a year-round system.

I was under the impression that they had spent the past few months out of school, if I understand this correctly they possibly only had a few weeks of being out.
 
This area had then what was known as modified year round school. They didnt have a full summer vacation, just 4-6 weeks. Most schools here were on some variation of that back then.
 
I find this case to be fascinating. It befuddles me at how great we can all be as humans, yet we have the capability of being so evil. The good thing, for now, is that there are more good then bad.

Just a quick side note kind of off topic... There's another crime here that's being missed. The gas price of $3.49 per gallon. That too is a crime if I've ever saw one. ;)

009_zpsf4baabc1.jpg
[/QUOTE]
 
You're right los the gas along with the rent is "too damn high"
 
This area had then what was known as modified year round school. They didnt have a full summer vacation, just 4-6 weeks. Most schools here were on some variation of that back then.

Thanks kr, I thought it might be something like that. those poor kids.
 
A few things in this early article that I wasn't aware of or had forgotten about.

http://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.true-crime/5MDf94eCVfI/discussion

From a interview with JB's sister.



If I'm reading this right JB was or had been employed in the days/weeks that preceded the murders. I wonder what her office job was.


also in the article, and I had forgotten about this damage.




I can see no damage to the rear of the car in the footage they showed in recent videos on the anniversary. It shows several seconds of the rear of the car with people milling about. So the damage related or not must be towards the front of the car. I Would love to see this damage, the fact that its in the article tells me they think it did occur that night.

side note - also in the video is a shot from behind the car with both doors open, you can clearly see the drivers window is rolled down almost all the way and the passengers side is rolled all the way up. I believe some articles had the drivers window as being cracked or slightly opened.




I was under the impression that they had spent the past few months out of school, if I understand this correctly they possibly only had a few weeks of being out.

That's interesting about the front end damage because it lends the possibility that the girls maybe were run off the road or ran into something while trying to escape from someone/something. They also could have accidentally hit someone's property and that's maybe what started the events that led to their deaths.
 
If I'm reading this right JB was or had been employed in the days/weeks that preceded the murders. I wonder what her office job was.

I wonder if we can find out somehow. In the theory that has popped up in this thread sometimes that one of the girls had a stalker, maybe it wasn't a random school kid at all but an adult. I think that was possible all along, since it being a small town and all would have meant the girls would have been acquainted with a lot of people outside of just classmates and family. However, JB having a job could lead to some insight. Someone who worked with her or came into her workplace often (to visit a colleague of hers, or perhaps to take care of paperwork, depending on what the place was). Maybe even someone who worked in the same building or street, or if part of her routine involved eating or having coffee at a nearby place then someone who worked there or went there, and so on.

I can see no damage to the rear of the car in the footage they showed in recent videos on the anniversary. It shows several seconds of the rear of the car with people milling about. So the damage related or not must be towards the front of the car. I Would love to see this damage, the fact that its in the article tells me they think it did occur that night.

It could have been damage to the bottom of the car also or perhaps inside the car. A bit like how one of the dangers of climbing sidewalks with a car is that the sidewalk edge might bump into the bottom of the car or how driving in rough terrain with a car that isn't equipped for that might damage something inside it (I don't quite know the specifics, I'm not a car expert).

Knowing what kind of damage it was could provide some clues. For example, the kind of damage that would come from driving in rough terrain could tell us the perp had gone off the road with the car or that perhaps the girls did.

I've suggested before that maybe the mud on their jeans (and on the car too IIRC) and the ID out of the wallet as well as the rolled down window could have been because they accidentally trespassed on someone's property and that person, probably the perp, showed up and said something like, who are you, why are you trespassing, I might have to call the cops. Kind of as a way to stall and get them to come out of the car and of trying to find out who they were.

Well, what about this similar scenario: the girls are driving and get into a minor accident, probably with the perp. Maybe he set things up on purpose or maybe it was all accidental and he just saw an opportunity. If they had bumped into the perp's car or something of the kind, he would have been able to convince them to show them their ID, ask them questions and even get them to come out. He could have pretended he needed to know that info for insurance purposes and that he needed them to sign things and get their contact information so they could take care of that paperwork.

Both of these scenarios and especially the second one could also have allowed the perp to lure them away somewhere else. He could easily have told them they all needed to get a phone or go somewhere to get the police or a towing service. Even calling an accomplice could be done this way, he could have said a nearby house would allow them to use the phone and take them to visit an accomplice if he had one.

side note - also in the video is a shot from behind the car with both doors open, you can clearly see the drivers window is rolled down almost all the way and the passengers side is rolled all the way up. I believe some articles had the drivers window as being cracked or slightly opened.

I'm not familiar with this footage, was it taken before the police examined the car? Because if not then perhaps it was rolled all the way down by LE examining the crime scene.

I think it being rolled all the way down would be odd if they were just handing over ID. Something like it being to hot so they opened one of the windows, or having to have a conversation with the perp, or even the perp doing it himself would seem more likely to me IMO. Were prints ever taken for the window handle thing and the window panes? I assume so but just checking.
 
I wonder if we can find out somehow. In the theory that has popped up in this thread sometimes that one of the girls had a stalker, maybe it wasn't a random school kid at all but an adult. I think that was possible all along, since it being a small town and all would have meant the girls would have been acquainted with a lot of people outside of just classmates and family. However, JB having a job could lead to some insight. Someone who worked with her or came into her workplace often (to visit a colleague of hers, or perhaps to take care of paperwork, depending on what the place was). Maybe even someone who worked in the same building or street, or if part of her routine involved eating or having coffee at a nearby place then someone who worked there or went there, and so on.



Coworkers of both girls should be and probably was looked at pretty hard. I think if this was some type of obsessive psychopath enamored enough by one of the girls to commit murder he would stand out like a sore thumb. Also the fact that we have two girls murdered and not just the one that would have drove the obsession to me adds another layer which makes this scenario a little less likely imo.


Something else I ran across the other day that left me wondering about things.
IN another article a few days after the crimes it had this paragraph,

"police have two high school students - both described as "bubbly
and friendly" and hospital volunteers - shot in a cold-blooded, deliberate
way. Investigators said it did not appear that they were assaulted or
robbed."

I guess you could read this either way one or both but the author makes it sound as if both were hospital volunteers. I remember Tracie being mentioned as a HV but wasn't aware JB did the same if she in fact did.


It could have been damage to the bottom of the car also or perhaps inside the car. A bit like how one of the dangers of climbing sidewalks with a car is that the sidewalk edge might bump into the bottom of the car or how driving in rough terrain with a car that isn't equipped for that might damage something inside it (I don't quite know the specifics, I'm not a car expert).

Knowing what kind of damage it was could provide some clues. For example, the kind of damage that would come from driving in rough terrain could tell us the perp had gone off the road with the car or that perhaps the girls did.


I'm wondering if they think this damage happened that night. I would like to believe if they did they would better describe the damage or if they think the car struck another vehicle and any paint transfer that might have happened, that info be put out early on in the chance someone discovered some property damage somewhere. Maybe they did, I don't remember. The wanted poster has three pictures of the car (if it is the car) with no view of the front. It could be like you say something underneath like a muffler drug off or something, without knowing what the damage was we're left speculating.


I've suggested before that maybe the mud on their jeans (and on the car too IIRC) and the ID out of the wallet as well as the rolled down window could have been because they accidentally trespassed on someone's property and that person, probably the perp, showed up and said something like, who are you, why are you trespassing, I might have to call the cops. Kind of as a way to stall and get them to come out of the car and of trying to find out who they were.

Well, what about this similar scenario: the girls are driving and get into a minor accident, probably with the perp. Maybe he set things up on purpose or maybe it was all accidental and he just saw an opportunity. If they had bumped into the perp's car or something of the kind, he would have been able to convince them to show them their ID, ask them questions and even get them to come out. He could have pretended he needed to know that info for insurance purposes and that he needed them to sign things and get their contact information so they could take care of that paperwork.

Both of these scenarios and especially the second one could also have allowed the perp to lure them away somewhere else. He could easily have told them they all needed to get a phone or go somewhere to get the police or a towing service. Even calling an accomplice could be done this way, he could have said a nearby house would allow them to use the phone and take them to visit an accomplice if he had one.

The trespassing angle I've always had a hard time with, I guess because well, how does a random trespassing escalate to a double murder of two teenage girls. And then comes along the event that happened right down the road from Ozark a couple summers ago when the guy shoots the bus driver and takes a little boy off the bus and they hold up in his underground bunker for several days. Although this wasn't a random trespass it does show us that these psychopaths are out there and when that something clicks and the opportunity is there these things do happen.


A staged auto accident is a good theory probably one of the most common in this case,
especially if they did wind up in Ozark by accident. The scenarios are certainly plausible.

If I were to Critique a little here for the purposes of a healthy exchange thoughts. I would say that surely by the time it would have taken for the accident to happen, a few words exchanged standing by the side of the road in the middle of town, between 11:30-12:00 on a Saturday night in the middle of summer with imo other motorist passing by, someone, probably multiple people would have witnessed something. I'm not sure the perp would have went ahead with the murders if even one witness had passed. All this assuming they were on one of two main roads leading back to dothan from the store, a side street would make more sense.

They also would have to have been clearly seen somewhere previous in order for the perp to know exactly who was in the car, like the store, a red light etc. I feel the placement of the vehicle in relation to where they were last seen is the biggest clue in this case.

I'm not familiar with this footage, was it taken before the police examined the car? Because if not then perhaps it was rolled all the way down by LE examining the crime scene.

I think it being rolled all the way down would be odd if they were just handing over ID. Something like it being to hot so they opened one of the windows, or having to have a conversation with the perp, or even the perp doing it himself would seem more likely to me IMO. Were prints ever taken for the window handle thing and the window panes? I assume

here's the video, DimeDetective posted it a couple pages back.

http://www.wtvy.com/news/crimes/headlines/Family-and-Friends--217839491.html

Looking at the video again I see no manual window handles on the inside of the door so without the keys the windows would have been left as they were when it was parked there. I can't see LE rolling them up or down without first checking for prints. There's about 4-6 inches of glass sticking out of the drivers side door so not quite all the way down.

Talk of the windows reminds me of the temp that day, It was over 100 degrees and still very warm and muggy by the time they left Tracie's that night according to the historical weather data. For some reason I want to say both girls were wearing long pants, maybe their clothing was described at some point or it might be the Haunting evidence episode that gave me that impression. Point being, it might just be the way they always dressed or perhaps it lends to the notion that they actually were planning on attending the field party and wanted to dress accordingly.
 
this is a young girl who has not been driving too long. some kind of minor damage that made the car feel or sound different might make her get out to look at the car. she might have been afraid she was making things worse by driving. speculation, but this is what i would have done probably at that age unless i was already spooked pretty badly.
 
I know what you meant and I agree this narrows down the type a bit. I think whoever did it may even be a serial rapist but is always one step ahead and never gets caught, perhaps he was careless... I wonder if something scared him.

that is a good point. we do not know if he got to carry out the crime as he had first imagined it. maybe he had planned to do more, but stopped for fear of getting caught. perhaps he was not any more familiar with the area than the girls were so chose a bad place to commit his crime, realized it and cut his losses. which meant killing J.B. and Tracie, very sadly. then, he drove the car somewhere away from the crime scene (or near where he'd left his car) and got out of there.
 
The way trespassing could escalate to murder is there were people making meth in that area. This is, from what I understand, a known thing. So, if a strange car suddenly arrives on their property, then things might get out of hand. I am not saying this is what happened because I just don't know. I'm just saying this is really the only way them accidentally turning onto private property could get them killed in such a fashion... if there happened to be criminal activity at that location.

moo
 
Suspects/POI's mentioned in the media other than John B


The guy in Michigan that they traveled to speak to, three trips if I'm not mistaken. He apparently attended a party that night not far from where the car was found, left Ozark within days of the murders and was unable to account for several hours the night of the murders. His DNA was not a match to what was found on JB's clothing.

A Dale county man who they didn't identify as a suspect but who's name kept coming up in the investigation that left Ozark shortly after the murders. He was located in Jones county MS. in Feb. 2000 after being tracked through several states. He cooperated with investigators and with his DNA not matching the sample apparently was not thought to be involved.

It seems odd to me that after all this time we have the name of not one single potential suspect. Back in 04 Spivey said that evidence reveals that the killer likely suffers from a sexual dysfunction which leaves him unable to perform normally. This sounds like it came right out of the FB1 handbook and that they're all in on the DNA found on the clothes being the killers. Statements attributed to him in recent media support this belief. It would be nice to know what their theory is.

I'd settle for someone's theory who is knowledgeable in the subject of rural cold case homicide and had studied the case thoroughly. I've tried to not let myself come down on the side of one theory vs another, I struggle to find a motive here. You mean to tell me two young girls are shot in the head because someone wanted to dribble a little on one of the girls clothing? It don't make any sense.
 
Coworkers of both girls should be and probably was looked at pretty hard. I think if this was some type of obsessive psychopath enamored enough by one of the girls to commit murder he would stand out like a sore thumb. Also the fact that we have two girls murdered and not just the one that would have drove the obsession to me adds another layer which makes this scenario a little less likely imo.

I don't know, sometimes they don't stick out so much. Look at all the cases where the perp is caught and all his acquaintances and friends are *shocked* that someone so well-adjusted would be doing something so gruesome and, well, abnormal.

It could have been someone who was extremely good at masking those thoughts. Or someone who stuck out a little bit as an oddball but wasn't weird enough to raise many red flags in connection to the case.

I'm wondering if they think this damage happened that night. I would like to believe if they did they would better describe the damage or if they think the car struck another vehicle and any paint transfer that might have happened, that info be put out early on in the chance someone discovered some property damage somewhere. Maybe they did, I don't remember. The wanted poster has three pictures of the car (if it is the car) with no view of the front. It could be like you say something underneath like a muffler drug off or something, without knowing what the damage was we're left speculating.

That's a good point IMO. I haven't seen anything to indicate they have, however, they may have assume the damage had been done by the perp or it could have been internal damage. Or perhaps we just don't know, the analysis of when the damage ocurred could have happened later - if they saw a small dent on the front they may have been thought it had been there already, don't forget the girls hadn't been driving on their own for very long. Perhaps it may have even turned out to not be related to the case at all?



The trespassing angle I've always had a hard time with, I guess because well, how does a random trespassing escalate to a double murder of two teenage girls. And then comes along the event that happened right down the road from Ozark a couple summers ago when the guy shoots the bus driver and takes a little boy off the bus and they hold up in his underground bunker for several days. Although this wasn't a random trespass it does show us that these psychopaths are out there and when that something clicks and the opportunity is there these things do happen.

Like December pointed out there were meth labs in the area - that could have led up to murder easily, same if the girls came across something the perp(s) didn't want them to see so much they felt it was preferable to kill them so they wouldn't tell anyone.

And as you said, sometimes perps are just waiting for an opportunity. Imagine the perp just happened to be out and about in his own property or someone else's, and came across the girls and decided to make a scene because they were trespassing just to make them stop the car and be able to kill them. A lot of cases here on WS seem to have a background like a stalker waiting for the right moment to strike but others seem to happen because the perps just so happen to find the victim when nobody else is around.


If I were to Critique a little here for the purposes of a healthy exchange thoughts. I would say that surely by the time it would have taken for the accident to happen, a few words exchanged standing by the side of the road in the middle of town, between 11:30-12:00 on a Saturday night in the middle of summer with imo other motorist passing by, someone, probably multiple people would have witnessed something. I'm not sure the perp would have went ahead with the murders if even one witness had passed. All this assuming they were on one of two main roads leading back to dothan from the store, a side street would make more sense.

They also would have to have been clearly seen somewhere previous in order for the perp to know exactly who was in the car, like the store, a red light etc. I feel the placement of the vehicle in relation to where they were last seen is the biggest clue in this case.

I'm not sure, by all accounts the area seems isolated enough. If there were so many people passing by then we'd have a lot more witnesses to say where JB and Tracie were along their route and it would be easier to know what happened to them after they got directions from that other lady and her daughter. Instead, IIRC the latter were the last ones to see them and soon lost them from sight.

It could also have happened that for some reason people DID drive by but they were mostly travellers from out of state or people who didn't notice (in the dark and to the side of the road) who the people who had stopped were. They may have noticed two bumped cars and drivers exchanging information and thought no more of it. After all, a staged accident would also give the killer excellent cover - most people wouldn't be paying close attention to license plates and faces if they were just driving by, if anyone stopped to see if they needed help he could just point to the bump and then leave at the first opportunity and cancel his plan.

Though I agree, a side street seems more likely.

I think he could have seen them, followed them around for a bit - or maybe just seen there were two people in the car who looked like young women. If it was someone who knew her he may have been able to guess they would be driving together. Remember, we're talking about someone who may be a guy and have a gun, someone strong enough to have killed the two of them. Also I assume someone who would be reasonably familiar with firearms if he shot them in the head and didn't shoot haphazardly. The fact that there were two girls instead of one wouldn't have made such a big difference to the perp.


Talk of the windows reminds me of the temp that day, It was over 100 degrees and still very warm and muggy by the time they left Tracie's that night according to the historical weather data. For some reason I want to say both girls were wearing long pants, maybe their clothing was described at some point or it might be the Haunting evidence episode that gave me that impression. Point being, it might just be the way they always dressed or perhaps it lends to the notion that they actually were planning on attending the field party and wanted to dress accordingly.

Weren't they just wearing jeans? Most people I know wear jeans year round and don't necessarily wear shorts. Though I agree, the way they were dressed could have indicated they were planning on attending the field party and being prepared if the temperature got colder since it was outdoors and at night. I know that when I go out at night in the summer I'll take a light coat or cardigan because when outside it might get a bit chilly, perhaps it was the same in Ozark.

Regarding the job thing, I think it would be odd to describe JB's job as an office job if it was only about the hospital volunteering, so I think that in addition to being a HV she would also have add a paid job in an office. I'm just guessing though.

Thank you for filling in the gaps in information that I was lacking and for your thoughts!
 
Someone posted photos of the street where J.B.'s car was found. I do not believe many people would have driven by. So, it is possible they were seen by no one except the murderer.

It is also possible that the DNA on J.B.'s underthings had nothing to do with the crime. If the police discovered this.. would they tell us? I really don't think so.
 
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