TedMac
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I agree it was an mostly an infatuation and I think the racial element added "fuel to the fire." MOO.
AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #2
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I agree it was an mostly an infatuation and I think the racial element added "fuel to the fire." MOO.
folieadeuxnola
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Absolutely TM .... Can only hope and pray there will be hard core evidence that is plausible enough to hold up in a court of law.
There is no doubt as much as said over the years there is a def radar on persons of interest.
Have been deep into the disappearance of Brandon Lawson ....
Bulldog23
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One more thing about the man we have been discussing as a possible POI; On his facebook page, he has posted about the strained relationship he has with his son. He mentioned that one time he took his son to the cemetery where JB is buried and made a comment on how nice the Veteran's Memorial there is, and because his son is out to get him, the son told someone else that this guy had an unnatural obsession with the dead girl and said he (the POI) wanted to be buried beside her. So if any LE officials are reading, they might want to talk to the son of the guy we've been discussing. You can private message me if you need his name.
Has discussion on this case been moved to a new thread? I've been reading a lot about it recently, and I just noticed that it has been about 2 weeks since a post here, which seems unusual.
I've been reading a lot about the "V" suspect mentioned above, including some of his posts on older message boards under the "V" name and other screen names. I live in the Wiregrass area but have not followed this case closely until recently, and I really think he's the key to this case. Any new developments / thoughts?
I've been reading a lot about the "V" suspect mentioned above, including some of his posts on older message boards under the "V" name and other screen names. I live in the Wiregrass area but have not followed this case closely until recently, and I really think he's the key to this case. Any new developments / thoughts?
iron_angel
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I'd say it's normal that you haven't seen any new posts in days because the case is pretty much stalled at this point with no new leads etc...
TedMac
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There is a cold-case investigator from the AL Attorney General's Office that is working the case and is periodically updating the families on his progress. He hasn't made any public statements about the case that I am aware of. I understand that he is limited to what he can say as to not jeopardize the investigation, but I really wish he would come forward and let us how the investigation is going, if he is making any progress, etc. Also, he is a member of Websleuths and wrote on this thread last year asking anyone with info on the case to please contact him.
TedMac
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Good to see you back again!
somequestions
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Where the car was found is a detail that stands out to me in the case of J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett. Since there is no direct route to Herring Ave. from Broad Street that I am aware of, either the killer got lucky leaving the car in an area close to where J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett were last seen, or he lives close to where he parked the car.
Possible routes they might have taken include accidentally ending up on Bingham Ave or rt. 105 heading out of town. I tend to think that because if you were to assume that the killer would want to take them to the closest place with light and water, it would be somewhere on that side of town where the car was found.
Hypothetical example #1:
Even though J.B. Beasley knew Ozark, AL and was asking for directions lets assume she made it to US 231 then was kidnapped along with Tracie Hawlett. What did the killer do with his vehicle? If the killer was on foot, why did he drive back across town if the car was headed south? Couldn't you just continue to drive south and end up in a secluded area outside of town? Maybe he left his vehicle there on U.S. 231 and decided after he left J.B. Beasley's Mazda on Herring that he would return the next day to get his car? It does not make a lot of sense to that though. Why walk all the way back to his vehicle? If the place where they were kidnapped was secluded enough to pull a gun on someone alongside the roadway, why not drive J.B. Beasley's Mazda back there and get out and back into his own vehicle? That walk is the shortest one of them all. Maybe there were two killers and one drove the killer's vehicle?
I watched the interview with J.B.'s sister Jackqi and one thing said was that early on police saw the car and made the comment that cars do not bleed. Also she said the bullet that killed Traci actually went through the trunk. I thought this was important for a few reasons. I started to think maybe the police saw gas leaking instead of blood? That might explain the low fuel tank. There has to be some type of explanation for the low fuel tank. Without knowing what police know it is hard to make determinations.
You have to wonder about any killer who fires a gun into the trunk of a car. It is suprising he did not blow up himself and his two victims. In order to be that confident I think the killer would want to be able to see what he was doing. I personally think the residence or place where the girls were assaulted would have a big overhead light. Or he really is that lazy and careless.
The water in this case might have been a deterrent to leaving. If the killer drove the car and stepped in water too, the car might have mud in it. I think it would be an uncomfortable walk back to his house with his shoes sloshing around from the water damage. I think he would want to get out of those shoes and socks to let his feet air out. Maybe he had the girls stand in water to make it easier to control them and keep them from leaving.
This crime tends to have four elements:
1.Seclusion- What he does with his victims requires some privacy. The flash and sound of gunshots also requires the area to be void of other people nearby.
2. Water and Briars- This clue might be misunderstood, but if the back of their pants were as wet as the front, there probably is a river or pond nearby. Briars were found on their pants.
3. Light- You need light in order to see the victims. You need light in order to choose the key to open the trunk and to find the trunk lock.
4. Spontaneity- There is a lot of debate over this clue, but I tend to think they really were lost driving around Ozark. The killer cannot plan his crime to the extent where he can determine the time and place where he will see his victims. He cannot determine which direction they will go when they leave the gas station. He cannot determine when they would arrive at the gas station.
One of the most important aspects of geographical profiling is that we usually live and work around places we use frequently. So if a person tends to get their gas at a certain gas station there is a good chance they will probably return at some point because that is the area they are familiar with. So IF someone saw them at the gas station it would probably be someone who lives in that area of town. The more reference points you have the easier it is to determine a home location. So the idea that the killer might be someone who lives on Broad Street or in that eastern section of town is probably a good one. But this conclusion only makes sense IF they were actually kidnapped by someone who saw them at the gas station. So put simply if you knew for sure they were kidnapped at the Big Little Store, then you could use the Big Little as the center point of a radius around which you could surmise that there is more than likely possibility the killer lives within the circle.
Hypothetical example #2:
Someone follows J.B. Beasley's car and kidnaps them. This could be anyone, but the question is why would they not wait to kidnap them until after they leave town? In the country there are fewer witnesses to notice something.
Hypothetical example #3:
J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett stop at someone's house in Ozark, AL. But the problem is the purses are left in the car. I think if they had left the car and gone into a residence of someone they knew they might have at least taken their cell phone.
The last thing I remember from watching the interview with J.B. Beasley's sister is that she corrected the information that a bullet or bullet casing was found on Tracie Hawlett's pants leg. According to her it was found on J.B. Beasley's pants leg. She also said that with the way the blood splashed from side to side in the trunk that the car might have been driven for a while. This is a possibility but I instantly wondered about how good the shocks and struts were on J.B. Beasley's Mazda and when they were replaced.
Maybe the killer lived on a newly paved road? It just seemed strange that a place with mud and briars would not be bumpy as well. This type of clue is very loose and maybe police already looked at that possibility, but I would like to know the streets that had recently been paved in Ozark, AL in July 1999.
In any investigation, I think you should be thorough and investigate whatever you can so that you can say that you did everything possible, whether the case gets solved or not.
Possible routes they might have taken include accidentally ending up on Bingham Ave or rt. 105 heading out of town. I tend to think that because if you were to assume that the killer would want to take them to the closest place with light and water, it would be somewhere on that side of town where the car was found.
Hypothetical example #1:
Even though J.B. Beasley knew Ozark, AL and was asking for directions lets assume she made it to US 231 then was kidnapped along with Tracie Hawlett. What did the killer do with his vehicle? If the killer was on foot, why did he drive back across town if the car was headed south? Couldn't you just continue to drive south and end up in a secluded area outside of town? Maybe he left his vehicle there on U.S. 231 and decided after he left J.B. Beasley's Mazda on Herring that he would return the next day to get his car? It does not make a lot of sense to that though. Why walk all the way back to his vehicle? If the place where they were kidnapped was secluded enough to pull a gun on someone alongside the roadway, why not drive J.B. Beasley's Mazda back there and get out and back into his own vehicle? That walk is the shortest one of them all. Maybe there were two killers and one drove the killer's vehicle?
I watched the interview with J.B.'s sister Jackqi and one thing said was that early on police saw the car and made the comment that cars do not bleed. Also she said the bullet that killed Traci actually went through the trunk. I thought this was important for a few reasons. I started to think maybe the police saw gas leaking instead of blood? That might explain the low fuel tank. There has to be some type of explanation for the low fuel tank. Without knowing what police know it is hard to make determinations.
You have to wonder about any killer who fires a gun into the trunk of a car. It is suprising he did not blow up himself and his two victims. In order to be that confident I think the killer would want to be able to see what he was doing. I personally think the residence or place where the girls were assaulted would have a big overhead light. Or he really is that lazy and careless.
The water in this case might have been a deterrent to leaving. If the killer drove the car and stepped in water too, the car might have mud in it. I think it would be an uncomfortable walk back to his house with his shoes sloshing around from the water damage. I think he would want to get out of those shoes and socks to let his feet air out. Maybe he had the girls stand in water to make it easier to control them and keep them from leaving.
This crime tends to have four elements:
1.Seclusion- What he does with his victims requires some privacy. The flash and sound of gunshots also requires the area to be void of other people nearby.
2. Water and Briars- This clue might be misunderstood, but if the back of their pants were as wet as the front, there probably is a river or pond nearby. Briars were found on their pants.
3. Light- You need light in order to see the victims. You need light in order to choose the key to open the trunk and to find the trunk lock.
4. Spontaneity- There is a lot of debate over this clue, but I tend to think they really were lost driving around Ozark. The killer cannot plan his crime to the extent where he can determine the time and place where he will see his victims. He cannot determine which direction they will go when they leave the gas station. He cannot determine when they would arrive at the gas station.
One of the most important aspects of geographical profiling is that we usually live and work around places we use frequently. So if a person tends to get their gas at a certain gas station there is a good chance they will probably return at some point because that is the area they are familiar with. So IF someone saw them at the gas station it would probably be someone who lives in that area of town. The more reference points you have the easier it is to determine a home location. So the idea that the killer might be someone who lives on Broad Street or in that eastern section of town is probably a good one. But this conclusion only makes sense IF they were actually kidnapped by someone who saw them at the gas station. So put simply if you knew for sure they were kidnapped at the Big Little Store, then you could use the Big Little as the center point of a radius around which you could surmise that there is more than likely possibility the killer lives within the circle.
Hypothetical example #2:
Someone follows J.B. Beasley's car and kidnaps them. This could be anyone, but the question is why would they not wait to kidnap them until after they leave town? In the country there are fewer witnesses to notice something.
Hypothetical example #3:
J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett stop at someone's house in Ozark, AL. But the problem is the purses are left in the car. I think if they had left the car and gone into a residence of someone they knew they might have at least taken their cell phone.
The last thing I remember from watching the interview with J.B. Beasley's sister is that she corrected the information that a bullet or bullet casing was found on Tracie Hawlett's pants leg. According to her it was found on J.B. Beasley's pants leg. She also said that with the way the blood splashed from side to side in the trunk that the car might have been driven for a while. This is a possibility but I instantly wondered about how good the shocks and struts were on J.B. Beasley's Mazda and when they were replaced.
Maybe the killer lived on a newly paved road? It just seemed strange that a place with mud and briars would not be bumpy as well. This type of clue is very loose and maybe police already looked at that possibility, but I would like to know the streets that had recently been paved in Ozark, AL in July 1999.
In any investigation, I think you should be thorough and investigate whatever you can so that you can say that you did everything possible, whether the case gets solved or not.
somequestions
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There was a woman who wrote an article for Midwest Review and in it she wrote that the witness who gave J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett directions wished she had followed them to "make sure they made it ok to the party." I imagine that is just a typo by the writer but it made me wonder if maybe the girls got directions in case they decided to head home but were still looking for the party or if the witness heard 231 when Tracie or J.B. (whoever asked) meant 431.
Like so many cases relying on online information can be confusing sometimes.
This case is an exercise in trying to understand how people interpret directions. I cannot understand how on such a long drive to Ozark they did not realize they were going the wrong way before they even got to Ozark, AL. The directions they followed are what make this case such a mystery.
Like so many cases relying on online information can be confusing sometimes.
This case is an exercise in trying to understand how people interpret directions. I cannot understand how on such a long drive to Ozark they did not realize they were going the wrong way before they even got to Ozark, AL. The directions they followed are what make this case such a mystery.
Bulldog23
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Easongt, so glad you are back. Somequestions, those are very good points--especially about the witnesses at the gas station. I remember hearing the mother, Mrs. Merritt-I think, has passed away, but I wonder if the daughter still has a memory of that night. Did they tell Mrs. Merritt and her daughter they were still going to a party? If so, that changes the official narrative. (I know it's a long shot that she would remember that detail--but it is worth a look) And like TedMac said, it sure would be nice to hear from an investigator just to know they are still actively working on the case. After the unfortunate HCR debacle, the girls' families have seemed a little less vocal (who can blame them?--what a mess!), and as far as I know, this is the only place the case is actively being discussed--though I wish someone would reply to the last 4 questions on the Topix site.
easongt
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I'm thankful to say most of us we're able to correctly call the HCR information that was coming out. I think almost all of the contributors here are level-headed and deeply committed to helping in any way they can. I still haven't had time to get caught up please forgive me but it's good to be back.
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CoolJ
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I still believe that there were some truths mixed in with those HCR reports. I mean somebody wrote those investigative notes. Not to mention numerous whistleblowers. There is something there. Of that, I am convinced
easongt
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Don Siegilman... and I believe he's currently incarcerated
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CoolJ
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Yes. Yes he is, or at least was. Bribery and corruption charges. Was acquitted on RICO charges(in other words..organized crime)
Just trying to get a feel for the political climate in Alabama at the time....
Bulldog23
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One thing I have tried to look at is connections between older posts on wiregrass.com and the HCR information. One thing I noticed on the wiregrass.com site is that one poster said V and his gf had a friend named "Butch" who was LE officer at the time of the girls' deaths. The name "Butch" also came up in the HCR article. I'm not accusing anyone of anything...just pointing out a connection mentioned in two sources.
TedMac
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You are correct. Also, "Butch's brother" came on the Facebook page threatening to sue everyone after the H R story was published.
I'm not sure if this is significant, and I don't know if I can state it well. Feel free to comment to make my points more clear / less offensive / etc.
I am from the Wiregrass but not Ozark specifically, although I'm familiar with the area. This is the deep, deep South, and there is a long history of racial inequality. We have come a long way since Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement, but racism still exists. It is most often subtle but there are pockets of subculture in which it is more blatant and even vicious. There is a commenter on some of the old threads on other sites (V) who has been mentioned here. He claims to have known JB well. He also has some pretty bizarre ideas about race as it relates to his religious beliefs (google "Christian identity" to learn more). This suggests to me that JB was at least acquainted with someone, possibly multiple people, who held ardent beliefs about white supremacy / racial purity. (I've never seen any indication that either she or Tracy believed anything like that.)
We also know that:
1) JB and Tracy had black friends. One of the people who talked with them on the night of the murder was an African-American young man called Bookie. They were seen talking with him in a friendly way in a public place in Headland.
2) JB's legal guardian was her dance instructor (P), who is well-known (and loved) in this area. She would not have tolerated any racist nonsense in her home or her studio. I am somewhat familiar with her work (see my screen name), and I saw a piece that she choreographed to Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech which moved me to tears. In promotional materials for another stage production with which she was affiliated, she stated, "As a mother of white sons and black sons, I feel that this is a story that needs to be told." (This may not be a exact quote, as it's from my memory.)
3) The last people known to have seen the girls alive were the ladies at the gas station. Didn't Jacqui say in her interview that they were African-American?
This may not be related to the murders at all. But if JB had friends / acquaintances affiliated with this "Christian identity" way of thought, they may have been highly upset by these things, particularly her spending time in P's home. Didn't V live near the area where the car was found? (Or was it that he had friends who lived near there?) At any rate, if they ran into or even stopped to visit someone in this group of acquaintances on the night of the murder, couldn't this have led to an argument?
This seems a bit far-fetched, I know, but I was really struck by some of the racially charged things that I read on some older sites, and I haven't been able to get it off my mind. Thoughts?
I am from the Wiregrass but not Ozark specifically, although I'm familiar with the area. This is the deep, deep South, and there is a long history of racial inequality. We have come a long way since Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement, but racism still exists. It is most often subtle but there are pockets of subculture in which it is more blatant and even vicious. There is a commenter on some of the old threads on other sites (V) who has been mentioned here. He claims to have known JB well. He also has some pretty bizarre ideas about race as it relates to his religious beliefs (google "Christian identity" to learn more). This suggests to me that JB was at least acquainted with someone, possibly multiple people, who held ardent beliefs about white supremacy / racial purity. (I've never seen any indication that either she or Tracy believed anything like that.)
We also know that:
1) JB and Tracy had black friends. One of the people who talked with them on the night of the murder was an African-American young man called Bookie. They were seen talking with him in a friendly way in a public place in Headland.
2) JB's legal guardian was her dance instructor (P), who is well-known (and loved) in this area. She would not have tolerated any racist nonsense in her home or her studio. I am somewhat familiar with her work (see my screen name), and I saw a piece that she choreographed to Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech which moved me to tears. In promotional materials for another stage production with which she was affiliated, she stated, "As a mother of white sons and black sons, I feel that this is a story that needs to be told." (This may not be a exact quote, as it's from my memory.)
3) The last people known to have seen the girls alive were the ladies at the gas station. Didn't Jacqui say in her interview that they were African-American?
This may not be related to the murders at all. But if JB had friends / acquaintances affiliated with this "Christian identity" way of thought, they may have been highly upset by these things, particularly her spending time in P's home. Didn't V live near the area where the car was found? (Or was it that he had friends who lived near there?) At any rate, if they ran into or even stopped to visit someone in this group of acquaintances on the night of the murder, couldn't this have led to an argument?
This seems a bit far-fetched, I know, but I was really struck by some of the racially charged things that I read on some older sites, and I haven't been able to get it off my mind. Thoughts?
TedMac
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IMHO...Your thoughts are not far-fetched at all. The only person I am aware of that was friends with JB and identified with the group you referenced was "V".
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