Found Deceased AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 #4

[Heroine]

No real trauma on the outside of the body. JMO
From another poster:

The autopsy for Paighton Houston has been completed, but authorities said they don’t yet know how the Trussville woman died."
Jefferson County Chief Deputy Coroner Bill Yates on Monday said further examination and testing is needed to determine the cause and manner of death

"Jefferson County sheriff’s Deputy Chief David Agee said the sheriff’s office has taken over as the lead investigative agency on the discovery of the remains. He emphasized that this is a death investigation that has not yet been deemed a homicide. "


So there are no obvious signs of death, like stabbing, shooting, blunt force trauma. And they are not even certain it was a homicide.

So the method of her disposal seems like she was a homicide victim, but her remains do not show violence.

If this is true then what her friend said makes even less sense. Why would she say I feel in trouble. The wording has always sat weird with me.

 

[Spanky25]

Agree

Taken from the abandoned house IMO

 

[Heroine]

My own thinking (need that cute mooing cow emoticon we used to have) is that if the person responsible for her death has a connection to the property, they probably transported her there after death, knowing it was unoccupied and possibly having made preparations ahead of time.

Or maybe the death happened inside? I dunno.

My thinking is if It’s town I wouldn’t risk bringing a body in town. Just my opinion. But it could be a rural area.
Edited to add that it still makes little to no sense because if it appears that she has no signs of abuse then why would someone bury her because I agree other drug addicts aren’t gonna say let’s bury her. 1 they will be too high to think that far 2 they are addicts not murderers and they would probably really have strong feelings about this considering they too are addicts. It could happen to them too.

 

[ReillyElizabeth]

So she had to be around a bed I would say? Blankets can usually be in a vehicle . Sheets- no.

I would be careful about drawing conclusions from the sheets/blankets comments in the al.com article. I’m guessing they are getting this from the brief interview provided live from the scene by the assistant DA who confirmed that a body had been found. I don’t have a link but I listened to it live. I’m pretty sure she just said the body was wrapped in cloth, and it seemed pretty obvious that she wasn’t sure about the details. While al.com certainly qualifies as MSM, many of their news articles aren’t particularly good on the details. Then we all focus on the details since that’s all we have, and arrive at conclusions that may not be supported.

 

[margarita25]

Taken from the abandoned house IMO

You’re right. Those sheets could’ve been right there at the house. And if so, boy oh boy...talk about a crime tech examiner’s worst nightmare when it comes multiple potential profiles...

 

[Van Helsing]

DBM

 

[borndem]

That’s exactly what I was going to say...(NOT). Good post. Maybe I will stick around.

Please do!

 

[Seattle1]

If this is true then what her friend said makes even less sense. Why would she say I feel in trouble. The wording has always sat weird with me.

Personally, I think the text was sent to PH's co-worker after PH expired, and by somebody pretending to be P.

The text was sent to a co-worker that was allegedly home and asleep when the message transmitted or 12:15 AM.

Not only does the wording not work for me but I have to believe that if PH thought she was in trouble or danger that ultimately resulted in her death, I think she would have texted her sister or somebody she knew would be awake!

If what's been reported is accurate how PH left the bar alone with two men without the courtesy of a single word to her co-worker (that she carpooled with and where she left her vehicle), I don't think she would be the recipient of PH's lifeline or SOS contact. Whoever sent the text really didn't know PH as well as they thought they did. Not good enough to imitate her.

MOO

 

[Heroine]

Personally, I think the text was sent to PH's co-worker after PH expired, and by somebody pretending to be P.

The text was also sent to a co-worker that was allegedly home and asleep when the message transmitted or 12:15 AM.

Not only does the wording not work for me but I have to believe that if PH thought she was in trouble or danger that ultimately resulted in her death, I think she would have texted her sister or somebody she knew would be awake!

If what's been reported is accurate how PH left the bar alone with two men without the courtesy of a single word to her co-worker (that she carpooled with and where she left her vehicle), I don't think she would be the recipient of PH's lifeline or SOS contact. Whoever sent the text really didn't know PH as well as they thought they did.

MOO

Maybe but then again why would whoever it was that sent said text alert anyone to the fact that she may be in trouble if in fact they were involved. Why wouldn’t said text talk about how much fun she was having or something like that instead of she was in trouble.

 

[bwt42]

Personally, I think the text was sent to PH's co-worker after PH expired, and by somebody pretending to be P.

The text was also sent to a co-worker that was allegedly home and asleep when the message transmitted or 12:15 AM.

Not only does the wording not work for me but I have to believe that if PH thought she was in trouble or danger that ultimately resulted in her death, I think she would have texted her sister or somebody she knew would be awake!

If what's been reported is accurate how PH left the bar alone with two men without the courtesy of a single word to her co-worker (that she carpooled with and where she left her vehicle), I don't think she would be the recipient of PH's lifeline or SOS contact. Whoever sent the text really didn't know PH as well as they thought they did.

MOO

That would mean the person had to know who PH came with.

 

[PaulaDC]

My thinking is if It’s town I wouldn’t risk bringing a body in town. Just my opinion. But it could be a rural area.
Edited to add that it still makes little to no sense because if it appears that she has no signs of abuse then why would someone bury her because I agree other drug addicts aren’t gonna say let’s bury her. 1 they will be too high to think that far 2 they are addicts not murderers and they would probably really have strong feelings about this considering they too are addicts. It could happen to them too.

Reposting this story. Obviously they're not thinking straight.
Man admits to burying friend behind his home during interview

 

[Heroine]

The only way the text ever makes sense to me is if she was roofied and she was high cuz she was drugged and she just said what she was thinking in her texts or of course it’s some kind of cover up. Lol

 

[Seattle1]

First, I want to say that I don't think PH's phone data led authorities anywhere close to Hueytown. I believe it was a person that provided information that led them to PH's burial site. (Distance from the Tin Roof Bar and burial location was less than 15 miles -- 20 minutes by car). If active phone data available, I don't think it would have taken two weeks to locate P's body.

Second, I want to share something I learned today from an arrest affidavit on another missing person case:

Zetx.com is an online tool that will identify the carrier and the registered name associated with a phone number. Once an investigator confirms the carrier still provides phone service for the target phone number (i.e., the number not recently ported), they can submit a Surveillance Order with Emergent Addendum to the carrier to enable the carrier to begin sending emergency pings to the target phone number. Typically, the emergency pings go out every 15 minutes for an average of 48 hours in an attempt to locate its position, and the if and where the phone's been in use. I hope this effort becomes standard when searching for missing persons.

MOO

 

[Mominmi]

Deleted by poster... didn’t answer question quoted

 

[Heroine]

MOO... The person or people who sent the text knew she OD’d because they were with her. They wanted to establish th3 fact that she was with someone else (the two mom bar). They probably buried her (perhaps just freaked out, got scared they get in trouble) but knew she’d be found. It’s not like Hueytown is out in the wilderness. Its in town, House was on a road with other houses. Someone checking in on the house was bound to notice disturbed ground sooner or later. I bet they only wanted her missing long enough to set up their own “alibis”.

Makes sense to me! Sorry I didn’t know all the details as I haven’t read all of these threads. I have two small kids so it’s hard to keep up. I use to be on this site 24/7 before kids. It consumed me lol but I loved it.

 

[margarita25]

I keep thinking about what @Beth11311 said when she so bravely shared her own experience about overdosing on heroin, that there’s not much time, the needle hits you and “boom”. Again, the text could’ve been weird because she was totally inebriated and could barely get the words out, sensed danger...

If males and SA are nvolved, it might have happened like with Mackenzie Lueck, phone is off almost instantly. Maybe in her intoxicated state and danger closing in, her natural instinct was to contact the person whom she felt closest to...Maybe that’s just who came to her mind instinctually, and not the police, or family. Thinking out loud...but conversely it’s stated that she and her mom are close...

The only way I can explain it is like this. I was on a tiny plane one time that made an emergency landing. I wasn’t sure we were going to make it. My thoughts immediately went to certain people...I’m tired and babbling. Sorry this post isn’t clear.

ETA:
Having major difficulties with the pages loading, etc. Forum just isn’t working.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

No. But since you’ve been reticent for some reason to divulge what you know and haven’t given any links, you have given us nothing to rely on.

For the rest of us, I found some different things. One, substances that are present in the corpse may not have been ingested and could be due to decomposition and substances that were present may not be detectable or it may be impossible to determine that they caused the death:

“Post-mortem changes render the assumptions of clinical pharmacology largely invalid, and make the interpretation of concentrations measured in post-mortem samples difficult or impossible. Qualitative tests can show the presence of substances that were not present in life, and can fail to detect substances that led to death. Quantitative analysis is subject to error in itself, and because post-mortem concentrations vary in largely unpredictable ways with the site and time of sampling, as a result of the phenomenon of post-mortem redistribution. Consequently, compilations of ‘lethal concentrations’ are misleading.”

Post-mortem clinical pharmacology

This research paper likewise shows the difficulty of determining levels present at death:

Abstract: Multiple interacting factors alter the measured concentration of almost all drugs after death. The ratio of centrally to peripherally collected samples provides an indication of this redistribution. At present, there are no reliable markers from which to accurately predict how much an individual drug has redistributed. Knowledge of antemortem factors is essential for the interpretation of the effects of any measured drug or toxin.

The concentrations of most drugs alter after death as a result of numerous mechanisms. These and other factors identified as changing the concentration of a drug postmortem are presented in Table 1.
[Full text] Interpreting postmortem drug analysis and redistribution in determinin | PLMI

This article appears to state that the amount of opioid in the body may be able to determined. But I think they’re talking about fresh corpses. Someone take a look and tell me. Toxicologic assessments in acute heroin fatalities. - PubMed - NCBI

All in all it looks like the presence of opioids in the body may be able to be detected in hair follicles or in body tissue. Maybe even at the two week mark. But whether this caused death seems to be an impossible determination in a corpse that has decomposed for that long. It’s hard even in corpses where the person died recently.

I have my Masters in Soil Science so have studied decay. Just want to add that the mechanisms that they refer to in the above article (BBM) are fermentation and bacteria which starts to break down tissue. Both of which interfere with the concentration of any chemical present at time of death.
The other thing to know is that arsenic (which is found in all soil) and lead will also affect drug concentrations . So the longer a body is in contact with soil, the better chance of that happening as well.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Has it been confirmed that Paighton's phone was found? Did she have a purse and if so was that found?

 

[ReillyElizabeth]

On the issue of what PH was wrapped up in, I went back and listened to the actual interview. The DA just says “cloth,” and makes clear that she wasn’t up on all those details. It is at about 2:34 in the video.

Coroner: Paighton Houston’s cause of death is pending after autopsy

 

[Beth11311]

No. But since you’ve been reticent for some reason to divulge what you know and haven’t given any links, you have given us nothing to rely on.

For the rest of us, I found some different things. One, substances that are present in the corpse may not have been ingested and could be due to decomposition and substances that were present may not be detectable or it may be impossible to determine that they caused the death:

“Post-mortem changes render the assumptions of clinical pharmacology largely invalid, and make the interpretation of concentrations measured in post-mortem samples difficult or impossible. Qualitative tests can show the presence of substances that were not present in life, and can fail to detect substances that led to death. Quantitative analysis is subject to error in itself, and because post-mortem concentrations vary in largely unpredictable ways with the site and time of sampling, as a result of the phenomenon of post-mortem redistribution. Consequently, compilations of ‘lethal concentrations’ are misleading.”

Post-mortem clinical pharmacology

This research paper likewise shows the difficulty of determining levels present at death:

Abstract: Multiple interacting factors alter the measured concentration of almost all drugs after death. The ratio of centrally to peripherally collected samples provides an indication of this redistribution. At present, there are no reliable markers from which to accurately predict how much an individual drug has redistributed. Knowledge of antemortem factors is essential for the interpretation of the effects of any measured drug or toxin.

The concentrations of most drugs alter after death as a result of numerous mechanisms. These and other factors identified as changing the concentration of a drug postmortem are presented in Table 1.
[Full text] Interpreting postmortem drug analysis and redistribution in determinin | PLMI

This article appears to state that the amount of opioid in the body may be able to determined. But I think they’re talking about fresh corpses. Someone take a look and tell me. Toxicologic assessments in acute heroin fatalities. - PubMed - NCBI

All in all it looks like the presence of opioids in the body may be able to be detected in hair follicles or in body tissue. Maybe even at the two week mark. But whether this caused death seems to be an impossible determination in a corpse that has decomposed for that long. It’s hard even in corpses where the person died recently.

I was reading this earlier! Very in-depth and well explained.

I don’t know who here was in the Lucas Hernandez thread, but meth of some sort is created by decomp as well. I remember he had some levels of methamphetamine in his system and they weren’t sure if it was due to post mortem decomp.

The good news is that PH was found much sooner and I’m hopeful they will get answers from the tox.