AL - Paighton Houston, 29, left bar with 2 men, Birmingham, 20 Dec 2019 *arrests* #6

[bwt42]

It isn't actually, for a dollop of reasons. It isn't about you and body perceptions or body dysmorphias onto self or projected onto others. You clearly, have insight that you would be giving 'unreliable,' testimony, if an accurate and logical based description is of dire need, to possibly save lives.

Imo, it is silly.

As silly, as a 5ft individual, describing a forest of Birch trees, as if it were a forest of Redwood trees, when describing the place they witnessed a possible child abduction while traveling. Extremely altered perceptions of reality, because of stature, personal bias and unwilling to use logic instead of personal opionions, or body dysmorphia's all make unreliable witness testimony.

A 6'7 individual I would hope has the common sense to not describe a person they witnessed stabbing a victim as a short little petite guy who is actually 6'2 in height, weighing 320lbs, because he is a giant, and well to be expected as is in the case of short stature.

It may be silly. However, I see many on this thread differ on his appearance. As I posted earlier, my doctor considers me obese @ 5' 9 1/2" & 208 #. So @ 220# & 5' 11" probably less now I would consider him at least heavyset.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Didn't kill me. You don't really sleep, you black out, and stop praying to come down. Ancient history. your probably right, I was probably lucky.

(*shudder*) . I once had two doses of Nyquil completely accidentally within an unfortunately short time frame (so sick I didn't know what I was doing, and just wanted some relief from my symptoms). My ears legit rang for 24 hours minimum. I said "never again!"

 

[Hooman]

I’ve had this case on my mind most of the day. My heart goes out to Paighton’s family. I’ve been wondering if Paighton could have been saved with Narcan? I’m not familiar with opioid OD but I have a couple of friends who take opioids for chronic pain and have Narcan at their disposal just in case it is ever needed. We don’t know who was at the McClain St.house with Paighton and FH but I’m guessing there were others there. My mind keeps thinking “what if” someone had tried to call for help or taken her to an ER, would the horrible ending have been avoided? Probably not, but my heart just hurts for the loss of Paighton. Hopefully, anyone close to her who may be living a lifestyle similar to hers will realize how precious life is and how quickly it can be taken. MOO

 

[Zella]

I think it's less of an issue of the size of someone doing the reporting and more their definition of "heavyset."

To me, "heavyset" implies a polite way of saying "obese," and "stocky" is how I would describe someone who was sturdily built/muscular but not really overweight. Of the pictures I've seen of FH and the video of his court appearance, he is someone I would personally describe as muscular/stocky rather than heavyset.

Admittedly, I probably think way more about precise wording because of my own background (graduate work in English, experience as a writing tutor and teacher and editor), so that influences my thoughts on the wording.

However, I think the whole thing would have been clarified much more if we'd been provided with approximate height/weight and a clearer note on build rather than just the incredibly generic and vague "heavyset." Height and weight alone don't mean anything because extremely muscular people will be listed as being obese with their BMI.

Being told she was last seen with a man approximately 5'10"-6'0," 200-220 pounds, muscular build, or an overweight man approximately 5'10"-6'0," 200-220 pounds, would have made a huge difference, in my opinion, for clarity.

That being said, I've always found it a bit odd no more detailed description was provided, which makes me think whoever was providing the description was unable, for whatever reason, to provide estimated height/weight or anything more specific.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

Not to provide cover for anyone, but another possibility is that nobody realized she'd passed until it was obviously too late to help. I know personally of an OD death where, when they were found, the victim had died and her friend was asleep, claiming she didn't know. No charges were filed.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

I think of "heavy set" as being a slightly larger-than-average build, and more muscular than overweight. It's all subjective, I guess.

I think it must've become clear to LE very early on who they were looking for & where to find them, so putting out a detailed description wasn't necessary. MOO

 

[Momma2cam]

Let me get this straight, she's sitting in this house smoking weed, having drinks, preparing a mixture of heroin and cocaine, and she suddenly decides to text that she was in trouble and didn't know he people she was with? Come on.

My hunch is the timeline is off. Perhaps she left closer to 11:30 p.m. and texted that when she got to the Brighton home and there were some people there that made her uncomfortable or she was worried about using. MOO

 

[margarita25]

Dbm
@thank you very much @DTPeke for the updates, as I’m knee deep in the coronavirus thread.

 

[Momma2cam]

I think it's less of an issue of the size of someone doing the reporting and more their definition of "heavyset."

To me, "heavyset" implies a polite way of saying "obese," and "stocky" is how I would describe someone who was sturdily built/muscular but not really overweight. Of the pictures I've seen of FH and the video of his court appearance, he is someone I would personally describe as muscular/stocky rather than heavyset.

Admittedly, I probably think way more about precise wording because of my own background (graduate work in English, experience as a writing tutor and teacher and editor), so that influences my thoughts on the wording.

However, I think the whole thing would have been clarified much more if we'd been provided with approximate height/weight and a clearer note on build rather than just the incredibly generic and vague "heavyset." Height and weight alone don't mean anything because extremely muscular people will be listed as being obese with their BMI.

Being told she was last seen with a man approximately 5'10"-6'0," 200-220 pounds, muscular build, or an overweight man approximately 5'10"-6'0," 200-220 pounds, would have made a huge difference, in my opinion, for clarity.

That being said, I've always found it a bit odd no more detailed description was provided, which makes me think whoever was providing the description was unable, for whatever reason, to provide estimated height/weight or anything more specific.

I've also considered that the person(s) giving the description may not have been completely sober and may not be the best judge for weight/ height. I know I'm horrible at estimating weight personally. Moo
ETA: The descriptor "heavyset" may have been the words of the person taking the missing persons report based on rough size estimates. Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Apparently it's only the newest tests that pick that up. Heroin can be indistinguishable from morphine in minutes.

It's certainly possible they ruled out heroin, but I think it is still very possible she was using heroin.

How Long Does Heroin Stay in Your System? (Urine, Blood, Hair)

How Long Does Heroin Stay in Your System?

Well, they have been testing for 6-A1 since at least 1991 because there are studies about it from that year.

I think if the coroner says she died from morphine as opposed to heroin than he or she used the appropriate tests.

Imo

 

[Zella]

I've also considered that the person(s) giving the description may not have been completely sober and may not be the best judge for weight/ height. I know I'm horrible at estimating weight personally. Moo
ETA: The descriptor "heavyset" may have been the words of the person taking the missing persons report based on rough size estimates. Moo

Yeah I've wondered this too. I have a bit of an obsession with guessing people's heights, but I'd be uncomfortable trying to estimate weight.

 

[Momma2cam]

Well, they have been testing for 6-A1 since at least 1991 because there are studies about it from that year.

I think if the coroner says she died from morphine as opposed to heroin than he or she used the appropriate tests.

Imo

I've read quite a bit on this to understand but certainly am no expert. From what I've read, heroin metabolizes into morphine within minutes. This chart is for a urine screen and not specific to after death testing but it indicates heroin is detected as morphine.

ETA: Identifying cases of heroin toxicity where 6-acetylmorphine (6-AM) is not detected by toxicological analyses

"Heroin has a half-life of 2–6 min and is metabolized too quickly to be detected in autopsy samples. The presence of 6-acetylmophine (6-AM) in urine, blood, or other samples is convincing evidence of heroin use by a decedent, but 6-AM itself has a half-life of 6–25 min before it is hydrolyzed to morphine, so 6-AM may not be present in sufficient concentration to detect in postmortem samples."

 

[MsBetsy]

I've read quite a bit on this to understand but certainly am no expert. From what I've read, heroin metabolizes into morphine within minutes. This chart is for a urine screen and not specific to after death testing but it indicates heroin is detected as morphine. View attachment 229164

ETA: Identifying cases of heroin toxicity where 6-acetylmorphine (6-AM) is not detected by toxicological analyses

"Heroin has a half-life of 2–6 min and is metabolized too quickly to be detected in autopsy samples. The presence of 6-acetylmophine (6-AM) in urine, blood, or other samples is convincing evidence of heroin use by a decedent, but 6-AM itself has a half-life of 6–25 min before it is hydrolyzed to morphine, so 6-AM may not be present in sufficient concentration to detect in postmortem samples."

Yes, it's most likely to be present within 2-8 after use.

As most people who overdose die within that timeframe I would think there's a good chance it would be detected.

Imo

 

[firebird]

It's kind of crazy to me that there are laws where someone can be charged with another person's death for providing them with (presumably clean) drugs. Now, when you're talking about substances that have been deliberately altered (like lacing with fentanyl) that's a different subject. But to charge a dealer with killing someone who chose to inject drugs is such a slippery slope and completely wild to me. Where does it stop? Do you charge the person who gave the deceased the drugs, and then also charge the person who sold the drugs to the provider....all the way down the line until you're bringing in folks from Columbia to charge for murder?

Yep. It's like that case where the girl was charged with involuntary manslaughter for texting someone to commit suicide. As vile a person as she may be, charging someone with a serious crim for someone else's own actions is the wrong way to go, imo. In that case, she wasn't even present at the scene. Just text messaging. Crazy to me!

 

[Momma2cam]

Yes, it's most likely to be present within 2-8 after use.

As most people who overdose die within that timeframe I would think there's a good chance it would be detected.

Imo

I guess I read it differently in that it specifically states it is often not found in postmortem autopsies. Either way, morphine is a "close cousin" to heroin and consistent still within her DOC group. Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

I guess I read it differently in that it specifically states it is often not found in postmortem autopsies. Either way, morphine is a "close cousin" to heroin and consistent still within her DOC group. Moo

Right, if it's not found then it indicates that heroin was not used. That's how they differentiate between morphine and heroin.
6-AM is only present for heroin.

That's how I understand it.

Of course no test is always 100 percent accurate, but I have no reason to doubt the coroners findings.

Imo

 

[Iggy2020]

Any possibility, the police rephrased it as heavy set based on the witnesses description? Do most young folks use the term?

 

[squareandrabbet]

Yeah I've wondered this too. I have a bit of an obsession with guessing people's heights, but I'd be uncomfortable trying to estimate weight.

See, now maybe I'm just being hyper-verbal, but when someone says "heavyset" to me, I think like a bowl of Jell-O "sets", which generally means flesh loose enough to move and wobble, like Santa's proverbial "bowl full of jelly". I should think if they were moderately large individuals without the quiver, I'd call them "sturdy" or "solidly built".

Again, I admit that's just me; but when someone says "heavyset" to me, I think "OK, that's someone politely trying to describe Biggie Smalls".

 

[Zella]

See, now maybe I'm just being hyper-verbal, but when someone says "heavyset" to me, I think like a bowl of Jell-O "sets", which generally means flesh loose enough to move and wobble, like Santa's proverbial "bowl full of jelly". I should think if they were moderately large individuals without the quiver, I'd call them "sturdy" or "solidly built".

Again, I admit that's just me; but when someone says "heavyset" to me, I think "OK, that's someone politely trying to describe Biggie Smalls".

As mentioned earlier I feel the same way about the word heavyset, but I still would not be comfortable trying to guess their specific weight like I would their height.

 

[DTPeke]

Video of hearing when Hampton waives extradition....

Suspect charged in Paighton Houston case waives extradition