Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin is credited as a producer on 'Rust.' What does that really mean?

 

[Satchie]

What legal jeopardy can those people (who loaded the guns and then returned the loaded gun, if that's what happened) face? Could they be charged?

It would be up to the New Mexico prosecutors to figure out whether the actual circumstances fit the offense of involuntary manslaughter. If someone stole the gun, that might be relevant because that would be an unlawful act, or also leaving guns around without 'due caution and circumspection', which might point to the Armorer...2011 New Mexico Statutes :: Chapter 30: Criminal Offenses :: Article 2: Homicide, 30-2-1 through 30-2-9 :: Section 30-2-3: Manslaughter.

For example, it happens all too frequently that people leave loaded guns around, and someone, particularly a child, finds it and gets killed. Apparently, about 50% of those cases result in involuntary manslaughter charges. So it's not consistent. IMO, it all depends on circumstances and what the social norms are in that region. Child gun deaths: Shooting accidents killed 73 children in 2018

 

[borndem]

Very good article:

Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?
Image source, Getty Images
On a film set, a real-life tragedy has happened.

Police say US actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on a film set in New Mexico. They were working on the film Rust.
[...]
Film sets usually have strict rules about the use of prop guns. Specialists provide weapons for use on film sets and advise on their use.
"There's basic safety measures on every set," said Mike Tristano, an armourer who has worked with Alec Baldwin in the past.
"You never point a gun, even if it is not a firing gun, at anyone else. I'm at a loss how this could have happened and how it could have done that much damage."
A common shot in film shows an actor firing into the camera and Steven Hall, who has worked on films such as Fury and The Imitation Game, says it only happens with safeguards.
"If you are in the line of fire... You would have a face mask, you would have goggles, you would stand behind a Perspex screen, and you would minimise the number of people by the camera, " he said.
"What I don't understand in this instance is how two people have been injured, one tragically killed, in the same event."
Others working in film wondered why, at a time when gun effects can be cheaply added using computers, blanks are still being used at all.
--------------------
Much more here:
Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?

 

[Satchie]

Isn't that exactly what happened to the AD on a previous set though? There was an incident where his carelessness caused him to be let go that same day as I recall. I don’t have a link to a story with that info available but I'm sure we've heard that several times in the later pages of the prior thread here.

From IMBD, it appears that film, Freedom's Path, had a Second Assistant Director who was already working with him, and probably took over his job, since there's no one listed on that production as AD. I also notice they had three people working as Armorers. Seems a much bigger budget for that film.

 

[cocomod]

'Rust' movie head electrician says he was 'holding' Halyna Hutchins in his 'arms while she was dying'

On Facebook Sunday, Svetnoy blamed Hutchins' death on "the person who was supposed to check the weapon on the site did not do this; the person who had to announce that the loaded gun was on the site did not do this; the person who should have checked this weapon before bringing it to the set did not do it."


"I do not wish anyone to go through what I went through, what her husband @matt Hutchins and her son Andros went through, and the actor Alec Baldwin, who has been handed a gun on set. He has to live with the thought that he took the life of the human because of unprofessional people."


The movie people rely on professionals to do their job. There were at least 2 people who acted unprofessionally! The armorer was young and had too much responsibility placed on her due to low budgets. The AD was definitely unprofessional even though he had experience. Cutting corners when there are lives on the line should NEVER be an option

 

[Satchie]

Very good article:

Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?
Image source, Getty Images
On a film set, a real-life tragedy has happened.

Police say US actor Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on a film set in New Mexico. They were working on the film Rust.
[...]
Film sets usually have strict rules about the use of prop guns. Specialists provide weapons for use on film sets and advise on their use.
"There's basic safety measures on every set," said Mike Tristano, an armourer who has worked with Alec Baldwin in the past.
"You never point a gun, even if it is not a firing gun, at anyone else. I'm at a loss how this could have happened and how it could have done that much damage."
A common shot in film shows an actor firing into the camera and Steven Hall, who has worked on films such as Fury and The Imitation Game, says it only happens with safeguards.
"If you are in the line of fire... You would have a face mask, you would have goggles, you would stand behind a Perspex screen, and you would minimise the number of people by the camera, " he said.
"What I don't understand in this instance is how two people have been injured, one tragically killed, in the same event."
Others working in film wondered why, at a time when gun effects can be cheaply added using computers, blanks are still being used at all.
--------------------
Much more here:
Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?

There's been some suggestions that he wasn't supposed to shoot the gun, he was just practising the movement of pulling the gun from his holster.

Report: Alec Baldwin Was Practicing Holstering His Prop Gun When He Shot, Killed Halyna Hutchins

So, I envisage everyone just rehearsing the movements and maybe saying 'bang, bang', no expectation that AB would actually pull the trigger.

 

[Arkay]

The people who brought live ammo onto the set are the ones I’m most angry with. Next up: anyone who knew the live ammo was there, and that it had been used for target practice in set guns. The armourer for not doing her job. The AD for handing off the gun and from the sounds of it, generally being a pompous Azz. Finally, AB - who despite his many years of experience as an actor, and being part of the production team - subsequently failing to recognize how desperately unsafe and very wrong things were on the Rust movie set. Then still pulling a trigger.

This, exactly.

It seems we are discovering that the whole production had a "what the hell" vibe going on. An entire sequence of overlooked steps that culminated in the death of the cinematographer.

My problem with AB is that, even if his responsibility to check the gun was not as great as those of the armorer and director, he simply should have known better.

Alec has been acting since before that young armorer was born. IMO that armorer is a mess and a hazard who should not have been hired. But Alec is such a huge name that we all know as important as this story is, it wouldn't be as prominent in the news if it were an indie film with no names.

Alec has been around the block, many times. It should IMO have been reflexive for him to say "wait, I'm going to check the gun before I aim," even though he was told it was a cold gun, and even though he may not have had roles that required him to use guns in the past. He's just been around enough that he should have seen and heard and known what the practices should be. And he's not shy about complaining when he doesn't get what he wants.

Ultimately, until we know the facts, my opinion is that HGR seems most at fault. But all of them should have paid more attention to how the production was unraveling. And a pro like Alec should have known the whole thing was going off the rails.

JMO.

 

[Luna20]

I'm not sure what you mean in terms of 'be held responsible' or 'be held accountable'. Those are pretty vague terms.

The criminal law is very clear: if someone (one person, or a deliberate conspiracy of people), take an action, or fail to take an action, which is specifically listed in the criminal code of that area as a criminal offense, then they can be criminally charged.

I don't know the criminal code in New Mexico: is it prohibited to have live ammunition, or to put it somewhere not locked up?

On the other hand, safety rules are created and enforced by the organization, above and beyond what the criminal code requires. The only punishment is, potentially, being fired for violating the rules, or allowing your staff to violate the rules, and that all depends on circumstances.

I guess until we find out more details of ‘No ammo on the set’ it can’t be determined who will be held accountable. And I realize there will be varying levels of it: criminal, civil, job termination, etc.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

So far, everything I've seen and read about and by HGR gives me the impression of a 14 year old, not a 24 year old woman. She had no business on that set.

100% JMO.

 

[shotgun09]

Yep, from what has been reported, guns were used by some crew members to shoot at beer cans, using real bullets. It might have went on the very same day the incident happened. What legal jeopardy can those people (who loaded the guns and then returned the loaded gun, if that's what happened) face? Could they be charged?

According to the Daily Mail, the "plinking" happened earlier that day. BBM

Criminal charges are on the table in Alec Baldwin shooting case say prosecutors | Daily Mail Online

"The prosecutor added that an 'enormous amount of bullets' had been found on the set and an investigation was needed into the nature of that ammunition.

It follows reports that the gun the 63-year-old actor used to accidentally kill Hutchins was used by crew members to shoot at beer cans just hours before the incident.

According to an insider with knowledge of the set, several crew members on the set had taken several prop guns out the morning of the incident to go 'plinking' - a hobby in which people shoot at beer cans with live ammunition to pass the time.

The individual, who spoke on condition of anonymity to The Wrap, added that the round of unsanctioned target practice occurred last Thursday, just hours before Baldwin discharged one of the weapons and shot both Hutchins and Souza. "

 

[mickey2942]

I don't think that we have enough information about the entire situation to make any judgments or even form opinions. We are receiving carefully scripted information from the media, which is crafting a court of public opinion on this subject, without a complete investigation.

I am waiting for the officials to release their information about the investigation. It may take weeks for this to be completed. If not months.

 

[JaneEyre]

I know some have claimed this scene didn't call for him to point the gun at the camera, but according to CNN, it did.

'Rust' shooting: How it unfolded, moment by moment - CNN

Baldwin was demonstrating a "cross draw" -- pulling a gun from a holster on the opposite side of his body from his draw hand. The scene required him to point the gun toward the camera.

Also, now this.

‘Rust’ Producers Hire Lawyers To Conduct Investigation On Alec Baldwin Film – Deadline

According to sources close to events, the Santa Fe Sheriff’s Department wrapped up their initial investigation on the site two days ago and OSHA has already been through the set. Today, Deadline was told by Santa Fe Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Juan Rios, “More search warrants could be coming, but nothing has been filed yet.”

“It’s going to be ongoing for a while,” Rios added.

“It feels too soon to be discussing interviews of crew members, but it is important that we hear from you as close to this tragedy as possible,” read tonight’s correspondence. “We know that reliving this tragedy will be hard, but your participation is important for all of us to be able to fully understand what happened, and we encourage you to share your perspective.”

 

[JaneEyre]

Allred is representing the woman who called 911.

Alec Baldwin's 'Rust' shooting being independently investigated by Gloria Allred: 'Many unanswered questions'

 

[Flurries]

This movie set will be the symbol of Real Wild West!

The Wild West is more legend than fact. This Frontier period was from 1865-1895.

“During a 15-year period in the late 1880s, there was an average of only three murders a year in Abilene, Caldwell, Dodge City, Ellsworth and Wichita — the five Kansas cities that served as significant railroad stops. This was far lower than murder rates in the eastern cities of New York, Baltimore or Boston at the time. (The city with the most murders of the five was Dodge City, which had 17 over nine years, less than two murders per year.)

Bank heists were a rarity (about eight bank robberies were recorded in the Wild West from 1859 to 1900) and most people didn't carry around a loaded six-shooter. In fact, few people carried sidearms at all. Many western towns, such Dodge City, prohibited the carrying of firearms altogether.”
Ridiculous History: The Wild, Wild West Was Really the Mild, Mild West

There were pockets of violence, says Wild West historian Jonita Mullins, but even these “tended to be sensationalized by the press and dime novels of the day.”

 

[Flurries]

This, exactly.
Respectfully snipped…

My problem with AB is that, even if his responsibility to check the gun was not as great as those of the armorer and director, he simply should have known better.

Alec has been acting since before that young armorer was born. IMO that armorer is a mess and a hazard who should not have been hired. But Alec is such a huge name that we all know as important as this story is, it wouldn't be as prominent in the news if it were an indie film with no names.

Alec has been around the block, many times. It should IMO have been reflexive for him to say "wait, I'm going to check the gun before I aim," even though he was told it was a cold gun, and even though he may not have had roles that required him to use guns in the past. He's just been around enough that he should have seen and heard and known what the practices should be. And he's not shy about complaining when he doesn't get what he wants…

JMO.

I saw an excellent comment on one article that stated, “If AB was directed to point the gun at himself in a scene, do you think he would have checked/cleared the gun first?”

 

[steeltowngirl]

I saw an excellent comment on one article that stated, “If AB was directed to point the gun at himself in a scene, do you think he would have checked/cleared the gun first?”

It is an excellent comment, yet I’m not so sure he would have checked the gun, even if the scene required he point it at himself. AB apparently trusted the chain of custody of the gun. And that’s where I see the problem. As an experienced actor, arguably the biggest name in this now defunct movie - but more importantly, one of the main producers - he should have been aware the production was in shambles. Had he walked off the set the first time safety protocols were breached, the movie set would have shut down until corrections were made. The armourer should have been fired.

Halyna’s life, along with the lives of everyone on the set, was in peril days or weeks before her fatal shooting. Yet those in charge allowed the cameras to keep rolling. Reckless and unconscionable. Halyna’s family and friends, along with everyone that witnessed the shooting, and AB himself, will have to live with that horror for the rest of their lives.

 

[borndem]

There's been some suggestions that he wasn't supposed to shoot the gun, he was just practising the movement of pulling the gun from his holster.

Report: Alec Baldwin Was Practicing Holstering His Prop Gun When He Shot, Killed Halyna Hutchins

So, I envisage everyone just rehearsing the movements and maybe saying 'bang, bang', no expectation that AB would actually pull the trigger.

The article said that AB was told it was a "cold gun."
This is horrible is so many ways. SMH

 

[steeltowngirl]

I guess until we find out more details of ‘No ammo on the set’ it can’t be determined who will be held accountable. And I realize there will be varying levels of it: criminal, civil, job termination, etc.

Yet no criminal, civil, or employment penalty will give back a mother to a 9 year old boy.

Halyna Hutchins' son, 9, 'fell silent' after Alec Baldwin killed his mum

 

[Gardenista]

AB's dad was the coach of the championship high school rifle team and he died due to inhaling lead dust while working at a rifle range. So I wonder if AB learned to shoot when he was young.

Remembering My Father

 

[Spyralflare]

Hi, new member here.
I’m an Equity actor who has done live shows where I had to “shoot” another actor.
This was an AEA contract theatre production.
Our process:
4 of us gather before every performance (me:shooter, actor I have to shoot at, Director, person in charge of gun.)
Person in charge of gun opens gun so we can all see chamber and rounds are empty. He takes a blank and blows out half of the gunpowder (blanks are very loud and powerful and we didn’t need that much), then loads the gun with the half-blank while we all watch.
Each night I intuitively aimed NOT quite at the guy I had to shoot. If there had been a round in there, it would have hit the wall, not the actor. Guns scare me.
This is what we did.
It’s not what these people did.
This is horrific.