Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

[Cryptic]

Can someone who knows guns comment on these recent statements by HGR and DH? I don't know how you are supposed to check a gun, so I'm confused--are they saying that both of them checked the gun, but may not have done it correctly?

Various types of guns are checked different ways. Checking means determining whether or not it is loaded, and in the case of a movie set, loaded with dummy rounds, blanks or live rounds.

Modern revolvers are easy to check. One opens the cylinder, then checks for rounds of any kind in the cylinder.

But.... the set guns, whether truly vintage or reproduction, may not have been fully modern. Evidently cylinders of vintage and some reproductions cannot be removed. They are checked by manually rotating the cylinder and noting whether there are any rounds in it.

The principle behind checking other guns besides breech loading shot guns (open the breech and look) involves an added step: The magazine (looks like a box) must be removed and the bolt worked / firing chamber examined.

Pump shotguns, old west lever actions and modern repros of lever actions have a tube that must be emptied- and then the bolt worked / firing chamber examined.

Many bolt action rifles do not have magazines. I believe they are checked by working the bolt to eject the unfired rounds, then checking the firing chamber one last time

 

[Satchie]

To check the gun thoroughly, whoever checked it would have to put the hammer at half *advertiser censored*, open the loading gate, and spin the cylinder until all of its chambers were checked. It sounds as if someone did not spin the cylinder, and only saw the rounds that were visible. Additional rounds would be hidden by the frame of the revolver. It is not possible to check a revolver like this to see if it is clear unless the cylinder is spun.

Also, I wonder about how they were supposed to tell whether a casing holds a live bullet or a blank, without removing them from the cylinder to check the firing end. It appears that blanks were marked somehow, but I wonder how obvious that was.

 

[Satchie]

dbm

 

[Gardenista]

If AB was practicing cross draw maybe he was never aiming at anyone. The trigger could have caught as he grabbed the gun from the holster with his non holster side hand in what sounds like an awkward action.

Course he would be flinging it about practicing which isn't good but he thought he had an empty gun.

‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline



IMO

I think someone here said you have to do another action besides pulling the trigger to get it to fire.

 

[Warwick1991]

I don't know anything about guns but this video shows one of this type being loaded:

So you have to spin the barrel to load each bullet. The guy on the video leaves the top chamber unloaded so that if the gun is accidently triggered once, nothing will happen.

It sounds like AD is saying he didn't open the gun barrel himself, the Amorer did. I think it was not loaded in his presence, so it appears he is saying he looked at the 'back end' of the items in the chambers. So wouldn't see from the front end whether they were real bullets, but could tell by looking for a hole on the back of each one. He seems to be saying he's not sure whether he looked at the back of them all.

It is not possible to spin the barrel, or open it. A barrel that could spin would indicate a disaster…. It is the cylinder that is spun, and in a revolver of this type, it usually has 6 chambers. The reason one of the chambers is left empty is that this traditional design can fire if the revolver is dropped or subjected to a very hard impact. Accidentally firing this type of revolver is very difficult. First, the hammer must be pulled back to *advertiser censored* the revolver, and only then can the trigger be pulled.

To inspect each chamber in a cylinder, the cylinder must be spun around. Dummy rounds are usually solid and look different - no primer - than a round with a primer and gunpowder in the case. Blanks still have gunpowder and primers, so distinguishing between a blank and a regular round is best determined by removing the rounds and inspecting them.

 

[PrairieWind]

There is a guy being interviewed, who played an "outlaw" on Rust and was shot at with blanks by multiple people on that set. He says he felt hot air and got hit with wads of paper.
So they had no rules to cheat the angle.

When shooting blanks, someone would not have to in the exact line of fire to get hit with debris or hot gas from the gun. Once gas and debris exits the barrel it begins to spread out.

 

[Satchie]

If AB was practicing cross draw maybe he was never aiming at anyone. The trigger could have caught as he grabbed the gun from the holster with his non holster side hand in what sounds like an awkward action.

Course he would be flinging it about practicing which isn't good but he thought he had an empty gun.

‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline



IMO

It seems unnecessary to have been using a gun that was loaded with blanks for the rehearsal, and the AD definitely knew there were blanks in it.

In the rumored reports about gun safety , it seems to me they are talking about guns on the set unexpectedly holding blanks, when they weren't expecting the gun to have anything in it at all.

 

[Satchie]

It is not possible to spin the barrel, or open it. A barrel that could spin would indicate a disaster…. It is the cylinder that is spun, and in a revolver of this type, it usually has 6 chambers. The reason one of the chambers is left empty is that this traditional design can fire if the revolver is dropped or subjected to a very hard impact. Accidentally firing this type of revolver is very difficult. First, the hammer must be pulled back to *advertiser censored* the revolver, and only then can the trigger be pulled.

To inspect each chamber in a cylinder, the cylinder must be spun around. Dummy rounds are usually solid and look different - no primer - than a round with a primer and gunpowder in the case. Blanks still have gunpowder and primers, so distinguishing between a blank and a regular round is best determined by removing the rounds andinspecting them.

Okay, you'll have to be patient with me using the wrong words, I nothing about guns, as I stated.

 

[Cryptic]

I think someone here said you have to do another action besides pulling the trigger to get it to fire.

I think the answer to that question is "might".

Old West revolvers were evidently "single action". This means that the shooter had to pull the hammer back with his thumb. The hammers would then lock back and be released by pulling the trigger. This causes the gun to fire.

But.... the weapon might not be truly vintage. Rather, it could be a modern reproduction. As another poster stated, earlier modern reproductions were very true to the originals.

He also added that more recently made reproductions have modern design features and safety features. This could include making the repros "double action" where a longer trigger pull moves the hammer back and then releases it.

So..... Baldwin may have needed to manually *advertiser censored* the weapon by pulling the hammer back with this thumb before firing it. Or....... the pistol's inner design may have eliminated that need.

But... actors may habitually pull back the hammer, even when its not truly needed before firing for Olde West realism.

One side note though, pulling the hammer back greatly reduces the amount of pull on the trigger needed to fire the weapon. Though not quite a true "hair trigger", a very slight trigger pull will fire the weapon.

 

[Warwick1991]

Various types of guns are checked different ways. Checking means determining whether or not it is loaded, and in the case of a movie set, loaded with dummy rounds, blanks or live rounds.

Modern revolvers are easy to check. One opens the cylinder, then checks for rounds of any kind in the cylinder.

But.... the set guns, whether truly vintage or reproduction, may not have been fully modern. Evidently cylinders of vintage and some reproductions cannot be removed. They are checked by manually rotating the cylinder and noting whether there are any rounds in it.

The principle behind checking other guns besides breech loading shot guns (open the breech and look) involves an added step: The magazine (looks like a box) must be removed and the bolt worked / firing chamber examined.

Pump shotguns, old west lever actions and modern repros of lever actions have a tube that must be emptied- and then the bolt worked / firing chamber examined.

Many bolt action rifles do not have magazines. I believe they are checked by working the bolt to eject the unfired rounds, then checking the firing chamber one last time

The cylinders of vintage designs can be removed. It is done for maintenance.

 

[Cryptic]

The cylinders of vintage designs can be removed. It is done for maintenance.

Thanks. That makes perfect sense. They would have needed away to thoroughly clean the mechanisms.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think the answer to that question is "might".

Old West revolvers were evidently "single action". This means that the shooter had to pull the hammer back with his thumb. The hammers would then lock back and be released by pulling the trigger. This causes the gun to fire.

But.... the weapon might not be truly vintage. Rather, it could be a modern reproduction. As another poster stated, earlier modern reproductions were very true to the originals.

He also added that more recently made reproductions have modern design features and safety features. This could include making the repros "double action" where a longer trigger moves and hammer back and then releases it.

So..... Baldwin may have needed to manually *advertiser censored* the weapon by pulling the hammer back with this thumb before firing it. Or....... the pistol's inner design may have eliminated that need.

But... actors may follow the practice of manually pulling back the trigger for realism.

Unless the revolver was custom made and designed, all single action Western style revolvers, whether they have a transfer bar safety or not, cannot be fired by simply pulling the trigger. All of them require cocking the revolver by pulling back the hammer to the full *advertiser censored* position.

The trigger on this type of revolver is fixed in place and cannot be pulled unless the hammer is cocked (pulled back).

In the early 1960s there was one double action revolver made to look like a single action revolver. It hasn’t been made for about 50 years. It only fired the small .22 caliber round, and would be a very unlikely stand in for a Western movie, as it does not really look like a revolver from the late 1800s. The revolvers used in this set were apparently either .44 or .45 caliber, authentic cartridges of the period.

 

[jjenny]

It seems unnecessary to have been using a gun that was loaded with blanks for the rehearsal, and the AD definitely knew there were blanks in it.

In the rumored reports about gun safety , it seems to me they are talking about guns on the set unexpectedly holding blanks, when they weren't expecting the gun to have anything in it at all.

The gun had dummies, not blanks. Dummies don't fire.

 

[RANCH]

He claims he gave her the gun to check. He claims he saw three dummy rounds (there are six total rounds in the gun). Dummy rounds are intert rounds that don't fire bullets and don't make noise.

How does someone tell the difference between a dummy round and a live round? What do you look for?

 

[Satchie]

Sheriff doesn't appear to have any information on the supposed plinking.

Just pondering, I suppose that part doesn't matter as much as who was in possession of live rounds that match the one removed from the gun.

I suppose they can match exactly whether they're from the same batch.

That would be, so to speak, the smoking gun. How the live round got into the gun, what the person did with it, would then be up to that person to try to explain.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

How does someone tell the difference between a dummy round and a live round? What do you look for?

Some sort of colored dot on the round.

 

[Warwick1991]

The shooting victims were not hit by a blank. They were hit by a live regular round, with a lead bullet. How that happened is the crux of this case.

'Lead projectile' killed cinematographer on 'Rust' set, sheriff says

 

[jjenny]

The shooting victims were not hit by a blank. They were hit by a live regular round, with a lead bullet. How that happened is the crux of this case.

'Lead projectile' killed cinematographer on 'Rust' set, sheriff says

We know.

 

[wary]

MOO

I’ve seen comments saying that it’s not fair to make actors learn and abide by gun safety rules.

I believe that the fundamental rule of gun safety is simple enough for almost any actor to understand. The Gun Is Always Loaded. Limited exemptions follow that, but they do not include someone just saying “cold gun.”

MOO

 

[jjenny]

MOO

I’ve seen comments saying that it’s not fair to make actors learn and abide by gun safety rules.

I believe that the fundamental rule of gun safety is simple enough for almost any actor to understand. The Gun Is Always Loaded. Limited exemptions follow that, but they do not include someone just saying “cold gun.”

MOO

Not someone, but a person responsible for set safety.