Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[Cool Cats]

I thought it was interesting in an odd way that she would publicly say that she knows who loaded the gun. At this point in the investigation it seems un-necessary to disclose it.

Hummm....

Then in the same article it says this:

The armourer has claimed that she loaded the gun from a box of rounds labelled “dummy,” indicating they were blank rounds.

 

[Luna20]

Hummm....

Then in the same article it says this:

The armourer has claimed that she loaded the gun from a box of rounds labelled “dummy,” indicating they were blank rounds.

Confusing right??! Is she implying that someone else reloaded the gun after HG did? Not sure…

 

[jjenny]

No, prosecutor just said she knows who loaded it. I don't think she is implying anything else.

 

[deugirtni]

Hummm....

Then in the same article it says this:

The armourer has claimed that she loaded the gun from a box of rounds labelled “dummy,” indicating they were blank rounds.

From reading here and elsewhere, it is my understanding that live ammunition is visibly different from blanks and dummies?? So if HGR is the armorer, why would she not have noticed the difference when loading the gun(s)?

 

[Cool Cats]

From reading here and elsewhere, it is my understanding that live ammunition is visibly different from blanks and dummies?? So if HGR is the armorer, why would she not have noticed the difference when loading the gun(s)?

She would have. Which leads to more questions. Unless she is that incompetent.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Paragraph 47 is significant. Plaintiff asserts that the script did not call for the gun to be pointed directly at the camera. This will be verified (or not) in discovery, when a copy of the script will be subpoenaed and the scriptwriters deposed. Until that time the issue of what the script called for (and implications of that) should be viewed as being technically in dispute, although it would be unusual for an attorney to make such a significant assertion without being confident that it would be backed up in discovery.

It was supposed to be pointed at the camera. Just not fired/pull trigger. (Paragraph 47, Line 18). MOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. Check out this CNN piece.

Starting at 5:06 there's a good and thorough demonstration of industry standards. Cold gun means completely empty. Hot gun means loaded - even if with a blank or a dummy cartridge.

At 6:33 he states the minimum safety distance to fire is 20 feet. (I don't even think that church was 20 feet long just guessing by pics. MOO)

They are in trouble with this IMO. In Paragraph 47 of the complaint as @DI_Isokawa referenced, Svetnoy alleges he was only 6-7 feet away (Lines 27 and 28). Not good for them IMO.

 

[Jurisprudence]

I think legally he has no choice but to sue all the producers, they are the ones who are liable.

You can feel badly for someone and still sue them. Family members sue each other all the time, if there's a legal cause of action and the court allows it. There's not going to be any trouble keeping this case in the California courts.

I was pretty amazed by how "all over the map" the defendants are. Many are incorporated in, or living in Los Angeles, and I'm guessing the documents for this production were inked there. I think the plaintiff gets a choice, then, on where to sue. Defendants come additionally from New York, Georgia and Arizona. There may be one from New Mexico too, need to reread.

Oh, IMOO if that attorney didn't go after every single pocket he could find, no matter how tenuous the connection, it would be so deficient it would almost be like he committed malpractice by incompetence. MOO But, this guy being first in line - naming over 100 defendants, when even the persons on the crew who were injured have not yet filed, reeks of opportunism.

 

[Jurisprudence]

This is the NBC article I mentioned up thread. It has the video with the attorney speaking.

‘Rust’ crew member sues Alec Baldwin, others in fatal on-set shooting

The great thing about this
‘Rust’ crew member sues Alec Baldwin, others in fatal on-set shooting
is that he confirms there was recreational shooting going on and he names names (or will after he ascertains all parties during discovery).

There does need to be accountability by - and investigation into - those who were shooting the guns with live rounds IMO. LE misstepped when it did not lock down that scene and get interviews on the spot before anyone could talk or coordinate and before anyone could wash off potential GSR (gun shot residue). MOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

"Santa Fe County District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies has rejected suggestions that the fatal shooting on the set of Rust may have been the result of "sabotage," as floated by attorneys for the movie's armorer."

https://theweek.com/news/1006993/sa...racy-theories-that-the-rust-set-was-sabotaged

The problem for Ms. Carmack-Altwies IMOO is "You. Have. No. Proof. " to counter this defense. Not that I have seen anyway. MOO She has a problem because, again, LE did not secure and process that scene. They went back Friday. That hurt their evidence collection. It even calls into question the veracity of subsequent interviews IMOO.

 

[Luna20]

No, prosecutor just said she knows who loaded it. I don't think she is implying anything else.

But why say it when HG says she loaded the gun in the same article.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Hummm....

Then in the same article it says this:

The armourer has claimed that she loaded the gun from a box of rounds labelled “dummy,” indicating they were blank rounds.

And, Svetnoy claims HG loaded the gun.
‘Rust’ crew member sues Alec Baldwin, others in fatal on-set shooting

Her (DA) problem is a proof problem. And, I think she may have trouble getting it now. IF HG is indicted, once HG puts forward that defense it's the DA's responsibility to essentially disprove it (prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she loaded it with a live round). MOO

Is HG still culpable of negligence for failing to do her job properly? Yeah, likely IMO. But, if the DA cannot get over her atty's hurdle, they're going to have a hard time with a murder conviction. This is MOO with only the very few facts we know. IMOO it kinda seems like a smart play by her lawyer who is hoping it'll be enough to give the DA pause to indict. Just a guess. We don't know enough.

But wasn't there MSM reports that she loaded it hours before (like before the lunch break). Doing that and then not checking it after is a big problem for HG. MOO

Edit to above: Yes.
Another lawyer for Gutierrez Reed, Robert Gorence, said the prop truck "was completely unattended at all times," leaving "access and opportunity" to access the ammunition. "The tray was outside the church for over two hours unattended after she had prepped that for what was going to be an afternoon filming session outside of the church," Gorence told NBC. Her lawyers said that Gutierrez Reed was not in the church at the time of the shooting because the gathering was just supposed to be technical preparation, which would not require her presence.

Alec Baldwin shooting: 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed thought she loaded the gun with dummy rounds, lawyer says - CNN

 

[Cool Cats]

And, Svetnoy claims HG loaded the gun.
‘Rust’ crew member sues Alec Baldwin, others in fatal on-set shooting

Her (DA) problem is a proof problem. And, I think she may have trouble getting it now. IF HG indicted, once HG puts forward that defense it's her responsibility to essentially disprove it (prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she loaded it with a live round). Is HG still culpable of negligence for failing to do her job properly? Yeah, likely IMO. But, if they cannot get over her atty's hurdle, they're going to have a hard time with a murder conviction. This is MOO with only the very few facts we know. IMOO it kinda seems like a smart play by her lawyer who is hoping it'll be enough to give the DA pause to indict. Just a guess. We don't know enough.

Trying to figure out what you mean.

It's HG's defense she loaded it with blanks and someone sabotaged it afterwards and the DA has to prove ...?

 

[Jurisprudence]

Trying to figure out what you mean.

It's HG's defense she loaded it with blanks and someone sabotaged it afterwards and the DA has to prove ...?

I *think* HG's attorney is trying to float the theory (which they may very well genuinely believe to be true, we don't know yet), that someone else had intent to kill. And for "all her faults and negligence, she is not a murderer, but someone else who was present on that set is." A "you need to go look for that person" thing. MOO

This could be a very difficult problem for that DA. How can she prove that the defense HG may put forward is not possible (and her failure to do that gives a jury reasonable doubt in most states MOO) when LE did not lock down that scene interview everyone before they could get stories straight, maybe glean from the interviews that rounds were in fact being fired from the guns during lunch immediately before rehearsal and test for gun shot residue. This is all speculation of course. But, unless LE has other concrete evidence, I think this is a heavy lift for the DA.

HG will argue that someone deliberately placed the live round there - they either took the gun during the break and switched out a cartridge or they placed live rounds in the only place she would obtain blanks from is my guess. And, how will she counter that? By testimony from someone who was first in line to file his civil suit for millions of dollars? JMO Heavy lift.

EDIT: MOO, DA can probably still go after lesser homicide charges that are on the books in NM. JMO

 

[Arkay]

Another lawyer for Gutierrez Reed, Robert Gorence, said the prop truck "was completely unattended at all times," leaving "access and opportunity" to access the ammunition. "The tray was outside the church for over two hours unattended after she had prepped that for what was going to be an afternoon filming session outside of the church," Gorence told NBC. Her lawyers said that Gutierrez Reed was not in the church at the time of the shooting because the gathering was just supposed to be technical preparation, which would not require her presence.

I am failing to understand how this can be a defense for HGR. Is or is it not her job to guard the ammunition at all times?

 

[Jurisprudence]

I am failing to understand how this can be a defense for HGR. Is or is it not her job to guard the ammunition at all times?

It would only be a defense to murder which requires intent and possibly one (but not all) of the lesser offenses depending on NM law. JMO Just speculation. There's a (deliberate) reason he's putting this out there (MOO). He's not doing it just to hear himself talk IMO. To me he seems to be doing what is called "floating a trial balloon" - testing the waters. MOO

 

[tayaway]

It would only be a defense to murder which requires intent and possibly one (but not all) of the lesser offenses depending on NM law. JMO Just speculation. There's a (deliberate) reason he's putting this out there (MOO). He's not doing it just to hear himself talk IMO. To me he seems to be doing what is called "floating a trial balloon" - testing the waters. MOO

She's going to claim she didn't do her job in order to avoid murder/manslaughter charges?

 

[everybodhi]

BBM

snipped
I cannot think of any reason to use real ammo to make dummies. Most sporting goods dealers sell .45 bullets( the lead piece) and 45 long colt brass casings.
Relatively cheap too. They may also be shipped without restriction.
They are inert components. To use real ammo for this would require you to pull the bullet from the casing of a LIVE round, empty the powder out, punch out the primer cap then drill a hole insert some b-b's and reseat the bullet. With the bulk components all you have to do is insert the b-b's and seat the bullet. This is a simple quick process.
It is cheap and safe to do.

snipped
The takeaway for me was in the comments.. “Too easy to get mixed with live rounds for me, you could just buy dummy rounds.”

Maybe if the set was running low on dummies and was rushed to film so no time to go buy more?
It was a squib load that killed Brandon Lee and where the dummy bullet came from has no bearing on his death, but in that production, the crew made their own dummy bullets.
If this was the case on the set of Rust, and I have no evidence of that, I'm just stating it as a hypothetical, is it another way a live round could be mixed up with dummy rounds if people are rushed, inexperienced, and disorganized?

No Charges Filed in Actor's Death During Filming (Published 1993)

Dummy cartridges are supposed to be rendered harmless by removing the gunpowder and triggering the firing pin. Professionally made dummies can be bought, but the ones used on the set of "The Crow" were made by crew members.

In the close-up shot, the triggering device in one dummy bullet apparently was improperly fired. The cartridge popped during filming and lodged the bullet in the tip of the gun barrel until it was dislodged when the blank was fired. The gun was not inspected between the filming of that scene and the scene shot on March 31.

 

[GatorFL]

BBM


Maybe if the set was running low on dummies and was rushed to film so no time to go buy more?
It was a squib load that killed Brandon Lee and where the dummy bullet came from has no bearing on his death, but in that production, the crew made their own dummy bullets.
If this was the case on the set of Rust, and I have no evidence of that, I'm just stating it as a hypothetical, is it another way a live round could be mixed up with dummy rounds if people are rushed, inexperienced, and disorganized?

No Charges Filed in Actor's Death During Filming (Published 1993)

Dummy cartridges are supposed to be rendered harmless by removing the gunpowder and triggering the firing pin. Professionally made dummies can be bought, but the ones used on the set of "The Crow" were made by crew members.

In the close-up shot, the triggering device in one dummy bullet apparently was improperly fired. The cartridge popped during filming and lodged the bullet in the tip of the gun barrel until it was dislodged when the blank was fired. The gun was not inspected between the filming of that scene and the scene shot on March 31.

Assembling bullets requires a reloading press, if HG was doing that it would be really easy to figure out.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

The great thing about this
‘Rust’ crew member sues Alec Baldwin, others in fatal on-set shooting
is that he confirms there was recreational shooting going on and he names names (or will after he ascertains all parties during discovery).

There does need to be accountability by - and investigation into - those who were shooting the guns with live rounds IMO. LE misstepped when it did not lock down that scene and get interviews on the spot before anyone could talk or coordinate and before anyone could wash off potential GSR (gun shot residue). MOO

But in the press conference he said he had not actually witnessed anyone plinking. Instead, he said he did witness guns being unattended and even laying around in the dirt.