Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[Luna20]

I can see why the Baldwins are getting roasted. Hilaria should have left her gushing letter to AB on his pillow, not on Instagram. Didn’t AB say to the reporter in the impromptu roadside interview that he couldn’t talk about the case while it was still under investigation? The interview with George S was clearly a move by AB for crisis control, and it’s not going over well.

There is a 20/20 show coming on Friday. I wonder if it will be more unbiased.
Friday December 10 2021 at 10 p.m. ET/PT and 9 p.m. CT, ABC broadcasts an episode of 20/20, delving into the events ahead of the deadly shooting on the set of “Rust” and the pending investigations into what went wrong. The episode features an interview with Alec Baldwin and new interviews.

Its either one way or the other, instead for him it’s selective interviews. It’s difficult to take anyone at their word when there are mixed messages.

 

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin to Emcee Ripple of Hope Awards Gala – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[al66pine]

Firearm Safety Standards on Set?

....Screen Actor's Guild guidelines for an actor:
AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE fOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND THE SAFETY Of YOUR FELLOW CAST MEMBERS....
it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety.
Treat all weapons as though they are loaded and/or ready to use. Do not play with weapons and never point one at anyone, including yourself.
https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf

@GatorFL bbm sbm Thank you so much for your post w link & quotes, which prompted me to check further into related safety guidelines from same source including the following.

"SAFETY BULLETIN #1 RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFETY WITH FIREARMS AND USE OF "BLANK AMMUNITION"
".... Additionally, this Bulletin should be attached to the call-sheet each day firearms will be used...." * bbm < Page 1 of 4. Plus lots more detail.

This ^ suggests imo that AB & anyone else who was to be present on set that day would have received a copy of it. Maybe hardcopy delivered to AB and others in person, or by email/other digital message, or by a posting at a central set location or a Rust website?

If ^ is true, no matter what means were used to deliver this info, what excuses do AB et al have for their actions on the set?

SAFETY BULLETIN #2 SPECIAL USE OF "LIVE AMMUNITION" THIS BULLETIN SHALL ONLY BE ISSUED IF "LIVE AMMUNITION" WILL BE UTILIZED"** bbm
6 pages, so lots of detail.
my2ct.
__________________________
* https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/01FIREARMS.pdf
** https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/02LIVE_AMMUNITION.pdf

 

[MajorHoople]

Make sure you watch it on YouTube and read the comments.

Yes you're right. The author of the video got a bit confused on how the Transfer Bar type safety works. It's easy to get mixed up. Here's a video by one of the most popular Youtube firearm aficionados. He admits his earlier explanation of the Transfer Bar type safety and the Hammer Block safety was wrong.

But I still don't know if Baldwin's revolver had either type of safety mechanism or none at all.

Hickok45 Was WRONG! (Hammer Blocks and Transfer Bars)

posted Jul 10, 2018 - hickok45

 

[Cool Cats]

Alec Baldwin’s ‘misguided’ interview slammed by 'Rust' gaffer's attorney: 'An attempt to sway public opinion'

"There are two ways to fire a gun, pull the trigger or pull the hammer back and drop it, thus Alec Baldwin has conclusively admitted he pointed the gun at Halyna Hutchins and fired the fatal shot," attorney Gary A. Dordick wrote to Fox News on Monday.

"His prime-time show appears to have been an attempt to sway public opinion, however, I think it was clear to most who watched the show it was a poorly planned, misguided attempt for sympathy for himself," he shared. "He denied guilt and responsibility and knowledge of the many, many safety problems on the set, even though he was responsible for safety as the producer. He acted as if he were best friends with Halyna Hutchins, yet he only knew her for nine days."

"When I take Mr. Baldwin's deposition in the civil case, I will play this interview on the record and cross-examine him on his statements, line by line, under oath," Dordick revealed. "He did not help his civil case and there remains the possibility of criminal charges. Mr. Baldwin should not have spoken publicly on national television."

During a press conference in November, Dordick told reporters that the movie’s producers "were cutting too many corners to save money" and that negligence on set led to the 42-year-old’s death.

 

[10ofRods]

Attempt to sway a jury pool, I think (in Alec's mind). I doubt this was approved by his PR team, Crisis Management Team or Lawyers - although they may have given him a strategy. He real wants to MC that awards show this weekend, and he really wants to work in January, so he wants to avoid uncomfortable moments in his work life/private life. He wants to be out and about and not have the press chasing him.

Dordick is having a field day. Says he'll go through that interview line by line.

Firearm Safety Standards on Set?
@GatorFL bbm sbm Thank you so much for your post w link & quotes, which prompted me to check further into related safety guidelines from same source including the following.

"SAFETY BULLETIN #1 RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SAFETY WITH FIREARMS AND USE OF "BLANK AMMUNITION"
".... Additionally, this Bulletin should be attached to the call-sheet each day firearms will be used...." * bbm < Page 1 of 4. Plus lots more detail.

This ^ suggests imo that AB & anyone else who was to be present on set that day would have received a copy of it. Maybe hardcopy delivered to AB and others in person, or by email/other digital message, or by a posting at a central set location or a Rust website?

If ^ is true, no matter what means were used to deliver this info, what excuses do AB et al have for their actions on the set?

SAFETY BULLETIN #2 SPECIAL USE OF "LIVE AMMUNITION" THIS BULLETIN SHALL ONLY BE ISSUED IF "LIVE AMMUNITION" WILL BE UTILIZED"** bbm
6 pages, so lots of detail.
my2ct.
__________________________
* https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/01FIREARMS.pdf
** https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/02LIVE_AMMUNITION.pdf

You nailed it. Those are the basic questions.

 

[10ofRods]

Let's not forget the relevant points of the Screen Actor's Guild guidelines for an actor:

AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE fOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND THE SAFETY Of YOUR FELLOW CAST MEMBERS.

Production management and crew are responsible for creating and maintaining safe conditions, but it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety.

Treat all weapons as though they are loaded and/or ready to use. Do not play with weapons and never point one at anyone, including yourself.

https://www.sagaftra.org/files/safety_bulletins_amptp_part_1_9_3_0.pdf

I think the law holds that as persons, we are responsible for same.

Actors are pretending and play-acting (like those kids who killed people this week while filming youtubes and tiktoks). Those kids were arrested and charged.

 

[10ofRods]

This discussion is interesting. My husband has a lot of guns, he is always cleaning them, tinkering... I often wondered if he was OCD, with how often he double and triple checks the gun for a bullet, in the chamber, or barrel, clip, wherever...he checks it before cleaning, before putting it away, before handing it to someone, after cleaning, when getting it out of the safe...on and on...

Of course, no one has ever been accidentally shot here, either.

Would your hubby loan a stranger a gun, and then allow that stranger to loan it to another person? Especially if he knew it would be used for some purpose?

The armorer is supposed to be like your husband, but present on set (as I presume your husband would be present if some stranger had been loaned his gun).

Loaning guns/renting guns is a gray area in Federal law, in any case.

 

[mickey2942]

Would your hubby loan a stranger a gun, and then allow that stranger to loan it to another person? Especially if he knew it would be used for some purpose?

The armorer is supposed to be like your husband, but present on set (as I presume your husband would be present if some stranger had been loaned his gun).

Loaning guns/renting guns is a gray area in Federal law, in any case.

Ironically, he and his friends trade guns all of the time for hunting, and have discussions about reloading, sights, muzzleloaders...so, I am not sure about the legality of it, but it is pretty common around here. And often guides have guns available for folks who travel to Montana to hunt. Lots of issues with transporting weapons, especially if they are from another country.

So, sort of "off topic". But now you know more about Montana.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Ironically, he and his friends trade guns all of the time for hunting, and have discussions about reloading, sights, muzzleloaders...so, I am not sure about the legality of it, but it is pretty common around here. And often guides have guns available for folks who travel to Montana to hunt. Lots of issues with transporting weapons, especially if they are from another country.

So, sort of "off topic". But now you know more about Montana.

Ditto in New Mexico. Best guess is that a little over half the adults in the state own one or more firearms.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

During a press conference in November, Dordick told reporters that the movie’s producers "were cutting too many corners to save money" and that negligence on set led to the 42-year-old’s death.

It's not just the direct savings from understaffing, lack of equipment etc. that cause "accidents"* like this, it is the refusal to spend the time to take the steps necessary to avoid mistakes. If you study "accidents" a lot you see this over and over.

Consider what it would take to properly convince another person that an inherently dangerous weapon like the Pietta was truly loaded with dummy rounds and only dummy rounds. That would involve showing the individual first that the weapon was unloaded by placing it on half *advertiser censored*, opening the loading gate, and revolving the cylinder to each position while holding the weapon so they could see it. Then you would have to show them six supposedly dummy rounds and demonstrate by first pointing out the hole in the side and the dimple indicating an inert primer, and second shaking the round to hear it rattle that all six were truly inert. Finally you would load the weapon with the verified rounds while the person watched, hand it to them, and watch to make sure it didn't leave their possession until they used it in the action or rehearsal and handed it back to you.

Now compare this to the accounts (which is all we have) of what happened. They saved what, seven to ten minutes time? To us that seems a trivial amount. To a hard-charging AD under pressure from the spreadsheet jockeys, seven to ten minutes per call sheet action is a lot.

*I prefer the maritime term "casualty" to "accident," because the latter word implies something that happened for no reason.

 

[RANCH]

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

"That one time they should have had her on set. She [would have] rechecked that gun and if there was a live round placed there she would have found it," he said.

Thell reiterated that he believes Hannah would have "absolutely" rechecked the gun before handing it to Baldwin. "She knows what to do," he said. "She does the job as good as I do."

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

 

[mickey2942]

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

"That one time they should have had her on set. She [would have] rechecked that gun and if there was a live round placed there she would have found it," he said.

Thell reiterated that he believes Hannah would have "absolutely" rechecked the gun before handing it to Baldwin. "She knows what to do," he said. "She does the job as good as I do."

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

Then, he should have counseled her to quit. I have counseled my adult children to quit jobs that were sketchy.

 

[RANCH]

Then, he should have counseled her to quit. I have counseled my adult children to quit jobs that were sketchy.

Good point. Especially a job that involves the safety of coworkers.

I don't see how this finger pointing helps HGR. All it does is point out that she didn't do her job.

Her first priority was to make sure the guns being used were safe. Only after that was accomplished should she try to do other tasks that were not safety related. If she was not allowed to do it that way she should have walked. JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

Good point. Especially a job that involves the safety of coworkers.

I don't see how this finger pointing helps HGR. All it does is point out that she didn't do her job.

Her first priority was to make sure the guns being used were safe. Only after that was accomplished should she try to do other tasks that were not safety related. If she was not allowed to do it that way she should have walked. JMO.

Young kids in careers don't know when they are being mistreated or taken advantage of, my daughter was told to use her own phone and credit card for business purposes and she would be "reimbursed". Yeah. Not. I told her to quit.

And "magically" she was issued a company cell phone and credit card.

So, a responsible parent, when hearing this information about a job that is not following safety protocols, should have told her to leave. INMO

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Then, he should have counseled her to quit. I have counseled my adult children to quit jobs that were sketchy.

That goes for her "mentor" in Albuquerque as well. And if George Stephanopoulos was a true friend of AB he should have counseled him to keep his mouth shut.

IMHO, JMO and all the other O's.

 

[10ofRods]

Ironically, he and his friends trade guns all of the time for hunting, and have discussions about reloading, sights, muzzleloaders...so, I am not sure about the legality of it, but it is pretty common around here. And often guides have guns available for folks who travel to Montana to hunt. Lots of issues with transporting weapons, especially if they are from another country.

So, sort of "off topic". But now you know more about Montana.

I love Montana and glad to know more.

I think ATF (hope I have the right acronym) has held that negligence or crimes committed with a gun registered to John Doe is John Doe's fault, just as it would be if it were a car. However, I am not sure at all that states actually cooperate with this or that the Feds would be involved unless the crime was itself a federal crime.

When this case first broke in the news, some legal pundits were questioning the legality of renting guns, but at the time it was also believed to be across state lines. Now we know that SK obtained a small office (and presumably a business license) in NM. So it's probably okay. However, if there's any allegation that the gun was not functioning properly, I think SK could be pulled into this case.

(Off topic: Just finished reading/rereading Peter Bowen's wonderful novels about Montana; they are supposed to be mysteries, but they are so much more than that).

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I can see why the Baldwins are getting roasted. Hilaria should have left her gushing letter to AB on his pillow, not on Instagram. Didn’t AB say to the reporter in the impromptu roadside interview that he couldn’t talk about the case while it was still under investigation? The interview with George S was clearly a move by AB for crisis control, and it’s not going over well.

There is a 20/20 show coming on Friday. I wonder if it will be more unbiased.
Friday December 10 2021 at 10 p.m. ET/PT and 9 p.m. CT, ABC broadcasts an episode of 20/20, delving into the events ahead of the deadly shooting on the set of “Rust” and the pending investigations into what went wrong. The episode features an interview with Alec Baldwin and new interviews.

100%, the line "the horrific loss, the torture to her family, and you my husband, somehow put in this unthinkable nightmare”. Somehow?? Deflecting any and all responsibility. I have read all the discussions about the normal protocol on set for gun safety. I will always believe that the person who is going to be handling the weapon should be part of that safety protocol. My one question to Alec would be if it was a suicide scene and you were to put that gun to your own head, would you have checked it then, had the AD/armorer open/check the gun when given to you? This new posturing has to be angering Hutchin’s family.

 

[steeltowngirl]

IMO, Thell should be careful with saying there is motive for sabotage, when he is also saying his daughter was complaining about conditions on set. Motive, method, opportunity…

From the article: The former stuntman and his lawyer echoed how they believe sabotage could be at play. "A lot of motive there," Thell alleged.

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

 

[jjenny]

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

"That one time they should have had her on set. She [would have] rechecked that gun and if there was a live round placed there she would have found it," he said.

Thell reiterated that he believes Hannah would have "absolutely" rechecked the gun before handing it to Baldwin. "She knows what to do," he said. "She does the job as good as I do."

Father of 'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed says she 'complained' about two jobs on set

The gun was already loaded with the live bullet when she gave it to AD as far as I can tell. Why didn't she found it when she gave the gun to AD?