Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[steeltowngirl]

Talking with BBC host Rachel Burden, Tristano said he believed someone other than Baldwin is likely at fault for Thursday's incident.

"There has to be circumstances here that we don't know about yet, but whoever the armorer or person handling the guns, and handed that gun to Mr. Baldwin, that's his or her responsibility to check that gun, make sure the rounds are the proper blank rounds and set up the shot to make sure whoever is firing is safe," Tristano said.

"That's their responsibility, not Mr. Baldwin's; he's an actor," he added.

Prop gun specialist calls Alec Baldwin "very safe," says props dept. likely to blame

 

[steeltowngirl]

Involuntary Manslaughter
According to Matthew Nash, Attorney-at-law (California) and Bar Practice Tutor at The University of Law, Baldwin could face an involuntary manslaughter charge. Baldwin could face such a charge if he was found to be reckless in his handling of the prop gun, if, for example, he discharged the weapon despite being advised not to.

"It would appear that under New Mexico law, Alec Baldwin could be guilty of involuntary manslaughter, which is a killing that takes place without due caution and circumspection," Nash told Newsweek.

Under the fourth-degree felony "the maximum penalty under New Mexico law would be a fine of $5,000 or an 18-month prison sentence," said Nash.

Involuntary manslaughter, under the New Mexico law, does not require "specific intent" of wanting a person's death.

However, even from this angle, criminal charges would be unusual, as fatal on-set shootings with prop guns have historically been ruled as accidents, notes Judge Gertner, Retired Judge, U.S. District Ct., D. Mass. One of the most prominent examples of this is the 1993 death of Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow.

Could Alec Baldwin face jail time for fatal shooting? Legal experts weigh In

 

[Dotta]

I wonder if insurance companies will look more closely at an armorers experience and qualifications when selling liability coverage to film production companies?

And here is the answer I think.
Eg: if you are insured against burglary, and it happens unfortunately, but your front door wasnt protected sufficiently by you - you can say bye bye to insurance money.

 

[Dotta]

So many times it’s all about making *more* money for yourself than about making someone else’s life liveable.

Didnt L Minelli sing
*Money makes the world go round*?

 

[abstr]

I would like to hear from a confirmed expert. Until then I am just so sad for the tragic death and injury.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip> This was the top story on Irish news when I woke up Friday morning. People are shocked that crew could be accidentally shot on a film set and are interested in getting to the bottom of what went wrong, not persecuting AB or any individual in particular. It seems clear to me that many people on this production were at fault in various ways as part of a litany of failures that culminated in the fatal shooting. I think it would have the same international coverage if any famous actor were involved, not just AB. I can't speak for the US though.

 

[whitelilac]

Quite the disturbing account of AD Hall's behavior, re: safety on film sets.

- include a disregard for safety protocols for weapons and pyrotechnics use, blocked fire lanes and exits, and instances of inappropriately sexual behavior in the workplace.
- neglected to hold safety meetings and consistently failed to announce the presence of a firearm on set to the crew, as is protocol.
- when Halls did hold safety meetings, they were short and he was dismissive, saying the guns used would be the same as the production always uses, and questioning why they'd have to hold the meetings in the first place.
- Halls complained about having a gun "cleared" (inspected by a licensed professional on set, such as an armorer) for a scene where an actress would aim the gun to her own head and pull the trigger.
- instance where Halls insisted on continuing filming on location while a storm hit, where electrical lights were touching mud, wires were exposed to the rain

Alec Baldwin shooting: Assistant director on 'Rust' was subject of complaints dating back to 2019 - CNN

 

[DI_Isokawa]

This was the kind of event that can be usefully analyzed using the so-called "Swiss Cheese Model" (Swiss cheese model - Wikipedia).

From the link: "The Swiss cheese model of accident causation illustrates that, although many layers of defense lie between hazards and accidents, there are flaws in each layer that, if aligned, can allow the accident to occur."

The hazard in this case is a weapon. The accident is a person being shot. The layers of defense are:

1. The weapon is not loaded with an energetic (i.e. "live") round.

2. The hammer is not in a position to apply pressure to the primer in the round. (Not cocked and facing the chamber holding the round or resting against the primer)

3. The hammer does not apply pressure to the primer in the round. (Not released after being cocked or being struck if resting on the primer)

4. The weapon is not aimed at a human being.

Defense 4 is the most basic and can be taught to individuals who have no knowledge whatever of firearms: never, ever, point a weapon at anything you do not want to shoot.

 

[Tony1902]

Does anyone know if anything was recorded live?

 

[Dotta]

Quite the disturbing account of AD Hall's behavior, re: safety on film sets.

- include a disregard for safety protocols for weapons and pyrotechnics use, blocked fire lanes and exits, and instances of inappropriately sexual behavior in the workplace.
- neglected to hold safety meetings and consistently failed to announce the presence of a firearm on set to the crew, as is protocol.
- when Halls did hold safety meetings, they were short and he was dismissive, saying the guns used would be the same as the production always uses, and questioning why they'd have to hold the meetings in the first place.
- Halls complained about having a gun "cleared" (inspected by a licensed professional on set, such as an armorer) for a scene where an actress would aim the gun to her own head and pull the trigger.
- instance where Halls insisted on continuing filming on location while a storm hit, where electrical lights were touching mud, wires were exposed to the rain

Alec Baldwin shooting: Assistant director on 'Rust' was subject of complaints dating back to 2019 - CNN

But why is he behaving this way???
Im shocked ppl want to work with him!
I think he is finished now.

 

[whitelilac]

And it is called Karma


But why is he behaving this way???
Im shocked ppl want to work with him!
I think he is finished now.

The AD Halls? Self importance, entitlement, and arrogance.

 

[shotgun09]

Does anyone know if anything was recorded live?

If so, I would venture to say that LE should have any recordings made.

 

[Luna20]

ABC producer bans use of real guns on set after Alec Baldwin tragedy

 

[Dotta]

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.amp...tor-Dave-Halls-blasted-gun-safety-lapses.html

I had to google this man as I have never heard of him before.
He is a veteran - nearly 80 films he worked on.
Is it Burnout/Routine that was his problem?

 

[fred&edna]

It is required by the protocols of the Propmaster's Union - so any union production is supposed to follow those protocols. This began as a union production but the Propmasters walked off the very morning of this shooting, because there had been too many safety violations (and now we learn that Dave Halls, the Asst Director also had a history of ignoring safety and didn't hold required safety meetings). Other crew members walked off due to not following COVID protocols either.

I think it's a bit different than a surgeon being handed a non-sterile implement. A scalpel is in use for a medical reason, its known dangers include lack of sterilization - but also, it's very sharp. Guns are lethal because they shoot bullets - and they are immediately lethal in the same way a scalpel is lethal if it is misused (and yes, surgeons have been sued and had their licenses revoked for having no skills with a scalpel - listen to the Dr Death podcast if you haven't).

This is much closer to the misuse of a scalpel as a cutting instrument. Blanks can kill too. They have gunpowder in them and sometimes they fragment and the pieces fly out of the gun just like a real bullet - people have died on set that way. That's why the actor is not supposed to fire the gun EXCEPT DURING THE SCENE and the director is supposed to establish the shot such that a gun is NEVER POINTED AT ANYONE on a movie set. Even with rubber bullets or blanks.

When shooting toward the camera, the crew must not be near the camera (50 feet away) and it's rarely done for that reason (camera is operated remotely). Stock footage is readily available and cheap for that type of shot (done in very controlled settings) so there's no need to do it on set with people around.

This gun was not fired during a scene (they weren't even close to shooting yet, they were about to begin a rehearsal). The gun was pointed directly at someone. Those are things actors must do properly or more people will be hurt - yes, by blanks, especially if the gun is as close to a person as appears in this case.

We sorta' disagree on certain aspects of this case, and that's okay. You have valid points but (until we know more) I still don't think AB should be the primary person held responsible. As an aside, I loved the Dr Death podcast but (a couple of years ago) when I brought it up at a party hosted by the surgeon who employed me... it didn't go over well. I should change my name to "tactless". (And, I also liked the Peacock video series of Dr Death with AB)

 

[Dotta]

Alec Baldwin 'cancelling other projects' days after accidentally killing Halyna Hutchins on set | Daily Mail Online
AB plans to "re-center" himself

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The AD Halls? Self importance, entitlement, and arrogance.

… substances …

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Surely only qualified gun handlers like ex military or police should be armourers, is there any kind of other formal qualification one can obtain that would be a decent level? I just can’t get over the fact they were using a gun meant for a scene for target practice .. sounds like the whole set was shambles.

 

[Betty P]

But why is he behaving this way???
Im shocked ppl want to work with him!
I think he is finished now.

I think the "bean counter" producers in charge of watching costs and schedules like him. He rushes the filming through and cuts corners so they can make bigger profits on the movies. Anti-union, scoffs at safety.

<modsnip>

Here's his IMDB profile

Dave Halls - IMDb

ETA: It also looks like he's worked on a lot of movies that are filmed on locations outside of Hollywood. Could also be he can get away with breaking more rules because there isn't as much oversight.

 

[Becky Starkey]

Alec Baldwin Film Crew Member Had Previous Complaint Filed Against Him – Deadline