Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #32

[Firesnake]

I know the forensic accountant not being ready but what about the other things they are waiting on?

Post mortem results, Phone and computer examinations.

Is this why there has been no COD because QPS still don't know? I wasn't aware they were still waiting on results!

Could the phone stuff be to do with apple records maybe as previously discussed?

All IMO

 

[minni]

I wonder how much NBC and EBC know about the financial mess and how deep it runs.
If NBC knows would he have kept EBC in the "dark" about it? MOO

EBC and NBC have been partners with him in a lot of his business ventures. businesses/trusts etc that have combinations of GBC NBC and EBC listed as being onwed by them.

 

[Gemini Girl]

Hi All

This is my first post, although I have been a lurker for some time.

I am a Brissie girl and like many of you have become bordering on obsessed with the desire for Justice for dear Allison. No I did not know her, but like many, now feel close to her.

I grew up in Indooroopilly, went to Toowong High, have many friends still in Indooroopilly, Kenmore, Chapel Hill, Moggill, and at one stage, Brookfield. I think of that area as home still even though I have not lived there for a long time. I suspect this is part of the reason I feel drawn to this particular case.

In addition I was for some years married to a “gas lighter”, and frequent affairs (which my ex made sure I found out about), were a major strategy in the process of helping me to feel worthless.

Luckily I found the strength to leave. I am heartbroken for Allison and her family that she was, for whatever reason, unable to extricate herself (not making a judgment here).

My now devoted and very loving husband also has a long association with scouting, and a framed picture of Lord BP, along with text of his Last Message to Scouts, adorns one wall in our living room. A few days ago I caught myself talking to it”so, what do you think of your great grandson now BP?” I then glanced around sheepishly to make sure I was alone LOL.

OH knows the scout camps at Kholo Creek very well, and is of the view that if GBC is the perp, (and we both feel confident that is most likely the case) and had he not wanted her body found, there are very deep diving holes there that he would, as a scout, have had the skills to drop her weighted down body into (sorry folks), with almost zero chance of any remains ever being found. OH is also of the view that assistance would have been required by the perp to manoeuvre her body to one of those deep holes.

MOO

 

[Maigret]

a light moment from twitter - and I must go and attend to real life now
Rodney Marks ‏@comedian_com_au
Baden-Clay murder weapon allegedly a hyphen.

 

[BreakingNews]

Hey guys, first post here but have been glued reading your posts and updates for weeks now. Great site.

The latest court hearing has made me wonder about something that has crossed my mind before.

When looking at the list of debts for GBC the thing that struck me is that none of them were loans from banks, building societies or other financial institutions. I would think that these would be the most common source of loan for an adult man. Unless we have no knowledge of bank loans at this point, I wonder why all the loans have come from friends, family, colleagues etc?

Someone else pointed out that GBC and ABC rented their home for the last six years and that they lease rather than own their cars. I agree that that is 'unusual' behaviour for a man who seems so image driven.

My theory is that it is possible somewhere down the track (and I'm thinking around 6-7 years ago but possibly more recently) GBC filed for bankruptcy. In Au a person is listed as bankrupt for 3 years but it remains on their financial file for 7 years. In a bankruptcy most likely he would have had to sell any house 'owned' and any car over the current 'allowable' value (which I believe may be $6000 give or take). This would explain the lack of home ownership, why cars are leased (although I know a lot of business owners do choose this option) and more importantly why there are a LOT of loans from various people but NONE seen from formal financial institutions.

It would also possibly explain why a forensic accountant has a LOT of work to do...

Purely JMO...

Hi and welcome.
It is quite common for business people to lease their cars - makes a good tax deduction and is easy enough to upgrade regularly. Also being in Real Estate, maybe there was tax benefits in renting a house as well. In business it is not uncommon to show no or little profit due to tax deductions (dodges?) Business people often have everything in the business name.
IMO

 

[Liadan]

Doing some research on this fraud idea - I want to know how GBC can maintain even his wife and kids on groceries with what he owes to people. The business could not have been solvent so how did he draw a wage?

I was looking up a few sites about company fraud. Interestingly enough lifestyle and gambling are the two major reasons to commit fraud. Owners/executives are likely to do the most damage to a business through fraud as they have the access and can make up stories to cover their *advertiser censored* not having to report directly to anyone. But GBC wouldn't be exposed to the behavioural red flags that this site lists as indicators for business fraud from an employee. These points were; living beyond means financial difficulties, wheeler dealer atitude, not willing to share duties, divorce or family issues, close association with suppliers or customers. (Does this sound like someone we talk about on this board?)

From just this tad of info I am inclinded to think GBC would have been screaming red flags to QPS, his gentleman deals with partners, his parents helping out, his mistress supporting him. And that is just the little bit we know about his finances. Now I have to find out more about the types of things they do within the company to commit this fraud no doubt loads of loans and inventing fake people for payroll, maybe circumventing rent money so it doesn't go through the company accounts. Charles Tarbey maybe in for some real surprises!!!! I wonder if GBC ever forged CT's signature? May have expedited a few financial deals???

http://www.debtoptions.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/4-Profiling-a-Fraudster-01.02.10.pdf

 

[Southside Mum]

a light moment from twitter - and I must go and attend to real life now
Rodney Marks ‏@comedian_com_au
Baden-Clay murder weapon allegedly a hyphen.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Southside Mum]

Doing some research on this fraud idea - I want to know how GBC can maintain even his wife and kids on groceries with what he owes to people. The business could not have been solvent so how did he draw a wage?

I was looking up a few sites about company fraud. Interestingly enough lifestyle and gambling are the two major reasons to commit fraud. Owners/executives are likely to do the most damage to a business through fraud as they have the access and can make up stories to cover their *advertiser censored* not having to report directly to anyone. But GBC wouldn't be exposed to the behavioural red flags that this site lists as indicators for business fraud from an employee. These points were; living beyond means financial difficulties, wheeler dealer atitude, not willing to share duties, divorce or family issues, close association with suppliers or customers. (Does this sound like someone we talk about on this board?)

From just this tad of info I am inclinded to think GBC would have been screaming red flags to QPS, his gentleman deals with partners, his parents helping out, his mistress supporting him. And that is just the little bit we know about his finances. Now I have to find out more about the types of things they do within the company to commit this fraud no doubt loads of loans and inventing fake people for payroll, maybe circumventing rent money so it doesn't go through the company accounts. Charles Tarbey maybe in for some real surprises!!!! I wonder if GBC ever forged CT's signature? May have expedited a few financial deals???

http://www.debtoptions.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/4-Profiling-a-Fraudster-01.02.10.pdf

A link to Fair Trading regulations for trust accounting. No doubt this agency is being forensically examined by specialist investigators [in every possible sense of that word].

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/property-agent-trust-accounts.htm

MOO

 

[Mountain Misst]

Doing some research on this fraud idea - I want to know how GBC can maintain even his wife and kids on groceries with what he owes to people. The business could not have been solvent so how did he draw a wage?

I was looking up a few sites about company fraud. Interestingly enough lifestyle and gambling are the two major reasons to commit fraud. Owners/executives are likely to do the most damage to a business through fraud as they have the access and can make up stories to cover their *advertiser censored* not having to report directly to anyone. But GBC wouldn't be exposed to the behavioural red flags that this site lists as indicators for business fraud from an employee. These points were; living beyond means financial difficulties, wheeler dealer atitude, not willing to share duties, divorce or family issues, close association with suppliers or customers. (Does this sound like someone we talk about on this board?)

From just this tad of info I am inclinded to think GBC would have been screaming red flags to QPS, his gentleman deals with partners, his parents helping out, his mistress supporting him. And that is just the little bit we know about his finances. Now I have to find out more about the types of things they do within the company to commit this fraud no doubt loads of loans and inventing fake people for payroll, maybe circumventing rent money so it doesn't go through the company accounts. Charles Tarbey maybe in for some real surprises!!!! I wonder if GBC ever forged CT's signature? May have expedited a few financial deals???

http://www.debtoptions.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/4-Profiling-a-Fraudster-01.02.10.pdf

If he got into the trust accounts then we're really on the money.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

I wonder how many years he has been the principal of the Real Estate? I believe that it is only during the period of the three years of bankruptcy he would be excluded (I could be wrong here). Once 'discharged' after the three years the person would be able to act in that position perhaps? Or if the bankruptcy was quite a while ago banks may still be reluctant to loan enough for a mortgage?
Hoping some sleuths out there might know more!

All the above JMO...

The following is required in QLD to even hold a salesperson licence that allows you to be a R/E sales person or Property Manager.

To be eligible for a real estate salesperson certificate, you must:


be 18 years or over
be a suitable person
have completed the required training units through a registered training organisation.
An individual is considered suitable if they:

have not been convicted in the previous five years of a serious offence which is punishable by 3 or more years imprisonment, such as:

fraud and dishonesty
drug trafficking
extortion
arson
unlawful stalking
violence or the threat of using violence
any offence of a sexual nature

are not disqualified from holding a licence or registration certificate
are not recorded in the register of disqualified company directors under the Corporations Act 2001.

If you are not an Australian citizen, you need to provide an international passport to complete the check on your working visa. Your visa must state that you can work in Australia. You must also provide written advice from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship to explain any conditions on your visa.

If you are affected by bankruptcy action, you must also supply a:

description of the circumstances that caused you to go into bankruptcy (if you were involved in a business, please advise the type of business) and a description of the steps taken by you to avoid going into bankruptcy
list of creditors and amounts owing to each creditor
confirmation of whether any charges were laid against you in regard to the bankruptcy
letter from your employer, on the employer´s letterhead, outlining your role within the business and whether you would be in a position to influence the management of the licensee´s business.

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/real-estate-salesperson-certificate.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

And to hold a full licence (to be a principal or licencee of an office or rent roll)

To be eligible for a real estate agent licence, you must:

be 18 years or over
be a suitable person
have at least one place of business in Queensland
have completed the required training units through a registered training organisation.
An individual is considered suitable if they:

are not bankrupt
have not been convicted in the previous five years of a serious offence which is punishable by 3 or more years imprisonment, such as:

fraud and dishonesty
drug trafficking
extortion
arson
unlawful stalking
violence or the threat of using violence
any offence of a sexual nature

are not disqualified from holding a licence or registration certificate
are not recorded in the register of disqualified company directors under the Corporations Act 2001.
If you are not an Australian citizen, you need to provide an international passport to complete the check on your working visa. Your visa must state that you can work in Australia. You must also provide written advice from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship to explain any conditions on your visa.

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/real-estate-agent-licence.htm

 

[HeartRuledHead]

In short, he could not maintain his position of Principal if he went bankrupt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woombite]

Does it seem to anyone else that the money situation is worse than first thought?

IMO

Yup sure does!
Also remember this forensic exam is being done without the cooperation of GBC so will literally have to rely upon ordering bank statements, credit card statements etc etc from different banks etc which also take their own sweet time.

add to that the fact that the current Public Sector has culled a lot of frontline support, and I daresay it will be more like March the shambles things are in.

 

[GonnaGetYa]

The following is required in QLD to even hold a salesperson licence that allows you to be a R/E sales person or Property Manager.

To be eligible for a real estate salesperson certificate, you must:


be 18 years or over
be a suitable person
have completed the required training units through a registered training organisation.
An individual is considered suitable if they:

have not been convicted in the previous five years of a serious offence which is punishable by 3 or more years imprisonment, such as:

fraud and dishonesty
drug trafficking
extortion
arson
unlawful stalking
violence or the threat of using violence
any offence of a sexual nature

are not disqualified from holding a licence or registration certificate
are not recorded in the register of disqualified company directors under the Corporations Act 2001.

If you are not an Australian citizen, you need to provide an international passport to complete the check on your working visa. Your visa must state that you can work in Australia. You must also provide written advice from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship to explain any conditions on your visa.

If you are affected by bankruptcy action, you must also supply a:

description of the circumstances that caused you to go into bankruptcy (if you were involved in a business, please advise the type of business) and a description of the steps taken by you to avoid going into bankruptcy
list of creditors and amounts owing to each creditor
confirmation of whether any charges were laid against you in regard to the bankruptcy
letter from your employer, on the employer´s letterhead, outlining your role within the business and whether you would be in a position to influence the management of the licensee´s business.

http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/real-estate-salesperson-certificate.

Hey HRH that's interesting... so IF GBC had been bankrupt he COULD have applied for a real estate license by supplying a description of his circumstances surrounding it. Great info!

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I agree and I think that under the tip of the ice hides a very large submerged financial berg. IMO

I found it interesting this article below, reports from the Police/prosecution affidavit handed to the court for the bail hearing that GBC allegedly owed $290 000 that was due on the 30th of June. this money was owed to friends in contracted agreements. Yet seems seperate from the $275 000 owed in gentlemens agreements. Wonder who this $290 000 was owed to and was it incentive enough for murder? (or thinking more sinister was it 'contract' for murder??..sorry, that was just a fleeting thought I had.)

'Police allege that $290,000 of the debt was due to be paid back by June 30, however they allege their inquiries "have failed to identify any legitimate means of salvaging his debt or finances prior to July 2012 in order to meet his commitment to (Ms) McHugh without a large influx of funds from these insurance policies".

Among the debts listed were:

$275,000 owed in "gentlemen's agreements" with three friends.
$200,000 to to a friend in a contracted agreement due for payment on 30 June, 2012.
$90,000 to another friend in a contracted agreement due for payment on 30 June, 2012.
$75,000 to a business associate.
$15,000 in outstanding franchise fees to Century 21 Australia.
$45,000 credit card debt.
$58,000 to his parents. (identified through a financial analysis ordered by police).
'

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz205vTiWXZ

Also interesting from the same article..

April 21, 2012

'Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.

Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.'

I know there was a question as to why it was not until the bail hearing that DNA was provided. That he had been uncooperative by seemingly not having provided sample previous. It appears from that He did actually provide a DNA sample on the 21st of april. ANd the further DNA sample requested at bail hearing and ruled to be of a non intimate source, was actually so that the relevant part of GBC face could be shaved to assess and examine the scratches further.

 

[Cyansea]

For sure. Who knows, not only could he be guilty of murder, but maybe fraud too?

Here's a link which I found of interest....

ASIC: Information Sheet No: 43 – Insolvency Guide for Directors
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/Insolvency_guide_for_directors.pdf/$file/Insolvency_guide_for_directors.pdf
*Sorry, I don't think my link is working? Its a very interesting read*

From my limited understanding, a Business can be insolvent just by being in debt, there are very strict rules from what I've read and also hefty fines and jail terms as well. I would love to know the details, whether there was money owed to employees (apart from ones we know about), taxes etc. Creditors can file to the Courts to make someone bankrupt...if the business owed money then the business was insolvent and the directors have a duty of disclosing this....there are many many things to try and sort this out from the scant info we have IMO but we don't have all the info. Anyone know about Company Law? :maddening:

 

[Thinking]

Doc, I had previously mentioned Melatonin as well...


Marly or anyone- can you remember or find the poster that claimed to have worked at the chemist?

Dropping in very quickly as am at work and being naughty lurking here - but the poster who worked at the chemist was "loosemarbles" - I could never forget that name! Am behind so some smarty has probably trumped me again with this info

Loving your work everyone - thank you again to the ladies who have reported back after their visit to the bridge yesterday, and also to the CCs (caseclosed and curiousasacat) for the tweets - they are soooo appreciated!

Finally, I wonder how many previous mistresses were shocked when they saw in the news that GBC used the name Bruce Overland with TM - how many women were thinking - "Oh I thought he only used that name when he was sneaking around with meeeeeeee!!!!"

 

[Nads]

Doing some research on this fraud idea - I want to know how GBC can maintain even his wife and kids on groceries with what he owes to people. The business could not have been solvent so how did he draw a wage?

I was looking up a few sites about company fraud. Interestingly enough lifestyle and gambling are the two major reasons to commit fraud. Owners/executives are likely to do the most damage to a business through fraud as they have the access and can make up stories to cover their *advertiser censored* not having to report directly to anyone. But GBC wouldn't be exposed to the behavioural red flags that this site lists as indicators for business fraud from an employee. These points were; living beyond means financial difficulties, wheeler dealer atitude, not willing to share duties, divorce or family issues, close association with suppliers or customers. (Does this sound like someone we talk about on this board?)

From just this tad of info I am inclinded to think GBC would have been screaming red flags to QPS, his gentleman deals with partners, his parents helping out, his mistress supporting him. And that is just the little bit we know about his finances. Now I have to find out more about the types of things they do within the company to commit this fraud no doubt loads of loans and inventing fake people for payroll, maybe circumventing rent money so it doesn't go through the company accounts. Charles Tarbey maybe in for some real surprises!!!! I wonder if GBC ever forged CT's signature? May have expedited a few financial deals???

http://www.debtoptions.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/4-Profiling-a-Fraudster-01.02.10.pdf

Our rental house used to be with a very dodgy rental company! They would take our money for a plumber or electrician to visit and then they'd tell us nothing could be done. Our poor tenants living with tepid hot water for a year. It's only that we found out we knew the tenants and they said no tradespeople had been around that they were caught out. Our electrician visited and fixed the problem in ten minutes! Grrr. :banghead:

Who knows what other dodgy things rental management companies can do!?

 

[squizzey1]

Here's a link which I found of interest....

ASIC: Information Sheet No: 43 – Insolvency Guide for Directors
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/Insolvency_guide_for_directors.pdf/$file/Insolvency_guide_for_directors.pdf
*Sorry, I don't think my link is working? Its a very interesting read*

From my limited understanding, a Business can be insolvent just by being in debt, there are very strict rules from what I've read and also hefty fines and jail terms as well. I would love to know the details, whether there was money owed to employees (apart from ones we know about), taxes etc. Creditors can file to the Courts to make someone bankrupt...if the business owed money then the business was insolvent and the directors have a duty of disclosing this....there are many many things to try and sort this out from the scant info we have IMO but we don't have all the info. Anyone know about Company Law? :maddening:

not strictly correct, insolvent is unable to pay debts as and when they fall due. eg a million dollar loan due in say june 2015 would not render one insolvent. emphasis is on "as and when they fall due"

 

[Dodo]

Hi All

This is my first post, although I have been a lurker for some time.

I am a Brissie girl and like many of you have become bordering on obsessed with the desire for Justice for dear Allison. No I did not know her, but like many, now feel close to her.

I grew up in Indooroopilly, went to Toowong High, have many friends still in Indooroopilly, Kenmore, Chapel Hill, Moggill, and at one stage, Brookfield. I think of that area as home still even though I have not lived there for a long time. I suspect this is part of the reason I feel drawn to this particular case.

In addition I was for some years married to a “gas lighter”, and frequent affairs (which my ex made sure I found out about), were a major strategy in

the process of helping me to feel worthless.

Luckily I found the strength to leave. I am heartbroken for Allison and her

family that she was, for whatever reason, unable to extricate herself (not making a judgment here).

My now devoted and very loving husband also has a long association
scouting, and a framed picture of Lord BP, along with text of his Last Message to Scouts, adorns one wall in our living room. A few days ago I caught myself talking to it”so, what do you think of your great grandson now BP?” I then glanced around sheepishly to make sure I was alone LOL.

OH knows the scout camps at Kholo Creek very well, and is of the view that if

GBC is the perp, (and we both feel confident that is most likely the case) and had he not wanted her body found, there are very deep diving holes there that he would, as a scout, have had the skills to drop her weighted down body into (sorry folks), with almost zero chance of any remains ever being found. OH is also of the view that assistance would have been required by the perp to manoeuvre her body to one of those deep holes.

MOO

Hmmmmm, talking to pictures on the wall.....you'll fit right in

here!!:floorlaugh: