Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #36

[alioop]

new topic, just for poss

Remember there was a minor connection between the commissioner and NBC? what was it? facebook friends? scout members? something minor.
I once asked the question of whether NBC could be given immunity (If it was even given to anyone?) Dont remember the answers I got or the exact reasoning but it was collectively a resounding NO.

IF NBC is involved or was involved after the fact....something is keeping his arrest at bay. What is it?

Could he be given special consideration based on any health issues? I am definitely not saying he gets special circumstances because or if he knows B.A....I know he is a man of integrity and I am not suggesting that.

Im just changing the subject for possum

Good question Minni, about reason for no arrest. My guess would be strategic and or evidence issues. Not health reasons as they can deal with those in remand if they need to.

 

[possumheart]

It was a big stumble, but it could have been some time afterwards that the moment occurred. It looked a little like she was frisking his neck, chest, then side areas before the moment. Perhaps he fell right over and she was checking for injuries, then kissing better?

Perhaps he had the missing phone in the clothes basket and was flustered, and fell as a result and EBC was giving him a mission accomplished reward.

(Hide it in plain sight strategy)

 

[Nads]

new topic, just for poss

Remember there was a minor connection between the commissioner and NBC? what was it? facebook friends? scout members? something minor.
I once asked the question of whether NBC could be given immunity (If it was even given to anyone?) Dont remember the answers I got or the exact reasoning but it was collectively a resounding NO.

IF NBC is involved or was involved after the fact....something is keeping his arrest at bay. What is it?

Could he be given special consideration based on any health issues? I am definitely not saying he gets special circumstances because or if he knows B.A....I know he is a man of integrity and I am not suggesting that.

Im just changing the subject for possum

I thought I read something about if NBC was also charged with something that he wouldn't have to testify at GBC's trial as he could incriminate himself. But if he wasn't charged then he could be forced to testify. Or was I imagining it?

Wonder if any of them got dragged to that thing that Paul Tully was talking about? Where you are forced to talk, but they can't use it in court?

 

[pulpfiction]

So yes - I have come across that personality type, but I've never been involved in the treatment of them (if there IS a treatment), not being a psychiatrist and all....

Very difficult to work with. Deeply entrenched values, beliefs and thought patterns.

 

[possumheart]

Wonder if any of them got dragged to that thing that Paul Tully was talking about? Where you are forced to talk, but they can't use it in court?

"If the evidence of a reluctant accessory would overcome that evidentiary difficulty and ensure the guilty party is brought to justice, it would be a powerful inducement to a person in such predicament to give evidence against the murderer in exchange for an iron-clad deal to give them legal immunity from prosecution.

"Normally, such immunities are rarely given early in a murder investigation."

Police said yesterday there was no basis for the speculation, and asked if Cr Tully could call them should he have "any information or inside gossip" in the future.

When asked about the strength of his sources, Cr Tully told The Courier-Mail they were "reliable, but not impeccable".

Cr Tully also wrote that the Crime and Misconduct Commission may already be using its "star chamber" coercive powers to make people talk.

A spokeswoman for the CMC yesterday said the commission could neither confirm nor deny involvement.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/allison-baden-clay-murder-rumour-of-indemnity-application-for-accessory-rejected/story-e6freon6-1226391562829

 

[pulpfiction]

Now that he is restricted to the inside (with limited contact with the outside) his supply would have to come from the inside. In that case he would simply discard the previous sources of supply. It would just be a matter of moving on to the next candidates within the prison system.

Yes that is often exactly what happens. It's not as prevalent here but in the US there are well reported instances of these types "turning on the charm" for female prison guards. Scott Petersen (death row inmate San Quentin) is one who reportedly lights up when female officers are on duty. They are highly manipulative types - truly masterful - so IF GBC is narcissistic then it is possible. Of course we do not know if he has any kind of personality disorder.

Somewhat like the Batman Shooter in the US recently, the public often assumes these people who do terrible things must have a personality disorder, schizophrenia or some other compulsion or affliction that drives them to do the unthinkable. They might be deemed to be a "psychiatric client" but do not have a disorder however. At this point it's probably a good idea to look at the DSM V

http://www.dsm5.org/

Also important to note that in my experience there are many who commit heinous crimes and do not have a PD or other diagnosable mental disorder. Likewise, some are influenced by other problems - eg. anxiety and many other problematic issues - including stress which can act as a trigger.

So it is important not to get hung up on attaching a label to GBC because we don't know anything about this as yet. We think he might be narcissistic because of what has transpired but it is possible he doesn't have NPD at all. Also pertinent to remember that virtually all of us have traits that might fit certain criteria for mental health issues. And yet we don't commit violent crimes.

 

[marlywings]

Thanks Opinionsgalore, BreakingNews & GEANIE...much appreciated

 

[pulpfiction]

Yes, that's a hard one. The best formula I have come up with is: GO BY WHAT THEY DO, NOT BY WHAT THEY SAY.

The trick with this is, and it's tricky to teach, is

When someone shows you their true colours always pay attention and don't minimize it. These types do show it but often it's brushed off. They can snap when challenged and watching their reaction is the key. Need to watch verbal and non-verbal. never reward or ignore bad behaviour.

 

[alioop]

The trick with this is, and it's tricky to teach, is

When someone shows you their true colours always pay attention and don't minimize it. These types do show it but often it's brushed off. They can snap when challenged and watching their reaction is the key. Need to watch verbal and non-verbal. never reward or ignore bad behaviour.

Thanks pulp, that is very good advice for us all.

 

[Rational]

Yes that is often exactly what happens. It's not as prevalent here but in the US there are well reported instances of these types "turning on the charm" for female prison guards. Scott Petersen (death row inmate San Quentin) is one who reportedly lights up when female officers are on duty. They are highly manipulative types - truly masterful - so IF GBC is narcissistic then it is possible. Of course we do not know if he has any kind of personality disorder.

Somewhat like the Batman Shooter in the US recently, the public often assumes these people who do terrible things must have a personality disorder, schizophrenia or some other compulsion or affliction that drives them to do the unthinkable. They might be deemed to be a "psychiatric client" but do not have a disorder however. At this point it's probably a good idea to look at the DSM V

http://www.dsm5.org/

Also important to note that in my experience there are many who commit heinous crimes and do not have a PD or other diagnosable mental disorder. Likewise, some are influenced by other problems - eg. anxiety and many other problematic issues - including stress which can act as a trigger.

So it is important not to get hung up on attaching a label to GBC because we don't know anything about this as yet. We think he might be narcissistic because of what has transpired but it is possible he doesn't have NPD at all. Also pertinent to remember that virtually all of us have traits that might fit certain criteria for mental health issues. And yet we don't commit violent crimes.

Thank you pulp for your insights, they are a pleasure to read.

 

[Gemini Girl]

<modsnip>
Alternatively, there is the trial currently occuring in Perth, in the murder of Corryn Rayney.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179098"]Australia: The murder of Corryn Rayney - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



New evidence from the trial every day, lots to sleuth - just a thought

:moo:

JMO MOO

 

[Nads]

Alternatively, there is the trial currently occuring in Perth, in the murder of Corryn Rayney.

Australia: The murder of Corryn Rayney - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



New evidence from the trial every day, lots to sleuth - just a thought

:moo:

JMO MOO

Yes, this is a gripping case. It would only take ten mins to read a summary of the case. There are all the intriguing elements as the BC case, lots of circumstantial evidence, but the defendant is a barrister himself, he got bail previously(!) and it's a judge-only trial. It's going to take a lot to prosecute this alleged wife-killer! And the trial is only a few days in and there are media updates twice a day. Very exciting!

Back to BC. I wonder if BC senior had any catepillar bites, ticks, or visits to the doctor?

If someone is or was interviewd in the star chamber we will never know either.

 

[minni]

Alternatively, there is the trial currently occuring in Perth, in the murder of Corryn Rayney.

Australia: The murder of Corryn Rayney - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



New evidence from the trial every day, lots to sleuth - just a thought

:moo:

JMO MOO

Thanks Gemini , I think I will do exactly that. It seems to have many similarities from what I have read so far
Cheers

 

[possumheart]

Have just had a session with Mr Google and can't work out which ear NBC wears the hearing aid on. Going by my experience, if the aid is on the left ear the person prefers to only be a passenger in the car because of the hearing situation. If his is on his right ear he would be more likely to have driven the car to Kholo or Little Ugly Creek IMO

 

[marlywings]

Have just had a session with Mr Google and can't work out which ear NBC wears the hearing aid on. Going by my experience, if the aid is on the left ear the person prefers to only be a passenger in the car because of the hearing situation. If his is on his right ear he would be more likely to have driven the car to Kholo or Little Ugly Creek IMO

Excellent point possum....although doesn't appear to be in right ear in this photo??...



http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/early-hours-call-to-father-alleged/story-fn6ck45n-1226406356989

 

[Rational]

I thought I read something about if NBC was also charged with something that he wouldn't have to testify at GBC's trial as he could incriminate himself. But if he wasn't charged then he could be forced to testify. Or was I imagining it?

Wonder if any of them got dragged to that thing that Paul Tully was talking about? Where you are forced to talk, but they can't use it in court?

Hey Nads I think as Actusreus or Hawkins explained if they charged NBC now than he could refused to answer at the trial as is every accused's right. However, if he is called as a witness and refuses to answer he becomes in contempt of court, which has severe penalties.

If he has been before the star chamber of the CMC he would have had to answer without being able to have his legal advisors provide him with advice. However, the CMC could also have been involved with witness protection or seeking a reduction in charges, not necessarily a star chamber process.

I thinkHawkins very early on suggested that if this case ever went to trial it could involve perjury as well as contempt of court. So we won't know for awhile yet.

I think also that a wife cannot necessarily be asked to give evidence against her husband so that would exclude either NBC or EBC from being charged.

All IMO

 

[Nads]

Excellent point possum....although doesn't appear to be in right ear in this photo??...

View attachment 25124

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/early-hours-call-to-father-alleged/story-fn6ck45n-1226406356989

They are very very discrete these days so I wouldn't expect to be able to see a hearing aid in such a photo. I'd never heard about the hearing aid driving thing.

The stumble of NBC in the video getting things out of the car makes me think he is frailer and less physically able than I had initially thought. I do "see" him as a canny fellow though, a good tactician and very practical. Guess it could be the hunting and scouting background and some of the things we've read about him.

 

[Nads]

Hey Nads I think as Actusreus or Hawkins explained if they charged NBC now than he could refused to answer at the trial as is every accused's right. However, if he is called as a witness and refuses to answer he becomes in contempt of court, which has severe penalties.

If he has been before the star chamber of the CMC he would have had to answer without being able to have his legal advisors provide him with advice. However, the CMC could also have been involved with witness protection or seeking a reduction in charges, not necessarily a star chamber process.

I thinkHawkins very easy on suggested that if this case eve went to trial it could involve perjury as well as contempt of court. So we won't know for awhile yet.

I think also that a wife cannot necessarily be asked to give evidence against her husband so that would exclude either NBC or EBC from being charged.

All IMO

Ah, glad someone else remembers better than I do. Didn't one of our members ? Alioop? Get made an expert on WS in the law? Perhaps they can add some knowledge.

 

[Rational]

Ah, glad someone else remembers better than I do. Didn't one of our members ? Alioop? Get made an expert on WS in the law? Perhaps they can add some knowledge.

Good thinking!! Alioop?? Every time I see your name I have to sing that song 'Alioop oop oop oop'. Don't ask me the name of the song or who sings it though (sorry Marly no link!!?)

 

[marlywings]

They are very very discrete these days so I wouldn't expect to be able to see a hearing aid in such a photo. I'd never heard about the hearing aid driving thing.

The stumble of NBC in the video getting things out of the car makes me think he is frailer and less physically able than I had initially thought. I do "see" him as a canny fellow though, a good tactician and very practical. Guess it could be the hunting and scouting background and some of the things we've read about him.

Yes the tactician & "be prepared" in him may have come to the fore that night. From Keyboredom's posts a while back, NBC certainly doesn't sound the strongest these days...

#695 06-04-2012, 07:26 PM
Keyboredom
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 323

Originally Posted by linette
That's interesting. Since I've never , ever seen the man in person... by 'weak old man' do you think he would possibly be too weak to help dispose of a body? I'm only asking because in the pics he always looks very strong.

He looked a bit hunched over, walking slowly, looked like someone just recently released from hospital, or depressed and disoriented, IMO. Reminded me of what i think i probably looked like when i was told someone close had died, and tried to function. However I have seen them both maybe 10 days ago, he was moving faster then, looked less beaten down. Certainly in the most recent state I couldn't picture anyone calling on him for physical assistance.

----------------------------------------------

#661 06-04-2012, 05:45 PM
Keyboredom
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 323

Thought I'd get out in the fresh air while nothing new was in the press

FWIW I did see Nigelaine out at the local shops this past weekend. They were sitting at a coffee shop then walking a dog. He did not look at all like a proud 'Bwana' to me, more like a weak old man with jeans that were too big for him, in cheap running shoes and walking fairly slowly and definitely showing some age. They were both walking some distance apart and didn't seem to be exchanging many pleasantries. He did not strike me as the strong type portrayed in his old bio, presumably his aura has changed a bit since this event happened, or maybe the 'Bwana' was always in his head and in print. They're most likely changed people from all the recent events - let's hope they are relieved when their daughter in law's killer/s is/are finally dragged into a dark cell where they belong.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8007000#post8007000"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #17 - Page 27 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]