Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[linette]

It would be interesting how GBC is faring in prison. One of the most difficult tasks of being in criminal is keeping the secret of what you have done. I am sure his solicitors have told him to keep his trap shut, but after being the flamboyant and social butterfly he was before Allisons murder - I think this would be a distinct challenge for him. I wonder if he had befriended anyone on the inside?

Would be very intriguing to hear what they talk about.

I wonder if he's been put off talking about himself now? Seemed to be his favourite topic pre murder... but I'm sure he still thinks about himself.. so it'll be all good.

 

[linette]

It amazes me that this terrible crime could take place with the little girls in the house...I thought they were at home that night?...Surely if the police had been called the night before they would have been concerned for the children...Unsure what happens in cases of DV where children are in the house, as the welfare of children would have to be their first priority in my opinion ...

From what I know the police have to suss out the situation and see if it really is bad or blown out of proportion... because sometimes it is. They will leave if they are satisfied that the arguments etc have finished. If there is evidence of physical violence then the woman {or man} will be asked if they wish to press charges and if the hubby {or wife} is drunk and abusive they will sometimes take them away for the 4 hours to sober up.
A few houses up from me the police often get called to the house {neighbours call} and they leave again after 10 mins, sometimes not even that long. They have 3 children, one being 4 months old. I know there really is a lot of crap goes on in that house, emotional abuse...even drugs, but as for physical violence, I don't know. The parents always look stoned, I don't know how they still have their kids. I think every case is dealt with according to what the police see when they show up.

 

[Makara]

yup, point taken alioop, although i seem to recall that whoever it was who posted those pics then came to the conclusion that it wasn't allison's body that the arrow was pointing to, and that the body was, in fact, up just above the top of the arrow stem, in the shadows. I think a picture from one of the other tv channels shows it a bit more clearly.

I could be mistooken there, of course - marly - help..... Your searching and linking skills are needed.... lease:

Yep, your right Doc, that was me. The attachments below are screen caps I took from the Channel 7 video. The first one I believe shows Allison's body on the ground. Someone suggested that it was a uniformed officer sitting or crouching. That is not the case. I've zoomed this pic to over 300% and there is no one sitting or crouching.

The second pic is an enlargement of the first one. I've over sharpened it deliberately to bring out the contrasts in light and shade. Have a look at the distance from where the body is to the height of the bridge. IMO it doesn't look that far down as opposed to the last pic, which is the screen cap I posted from the Channel 10 video. Have a look at the third pic. Is that blurred area Allison? if not why blur it? Take note of the distance from the bridge to the ground. Not very far at all IMO but I'm not convinced that that blurred area is Allison. If you compare the vegetation in the second pic, the two areas look nothing alike.

The last pic is the original screen cap I posted a while back and I've overlaid the first attachment on the right top corner. I found when I was comparing the two pics in Photoshop, the overlaid pic lined up perfectly with the pylons etc. so I left it that way to show where the first attachment is in comparison to the the original screen cap.

Hope that all makes sense. :blushing: Having said all that, IMO Allison was not dumped where she was found but was washed down to where she came eventually came to rest.

 

[DrWatson]

Yep, your right Doc, that was me. The attachments below are screen caps I took from the Channel 7 video. The first one I believe shows Allison's body on the ground. Someone suggested that it was a uniformed officer sitting or crouching. That is not the case. I've zoomed this pic to over 300% and there is no one sitting or crouching.

The second pic is an enlargement of the first one. I've over sharpened it deliberately to bring out the contrasts in light and shade. Have a look at the distance from where the body is to the height of the bridge. IMO it doesn't look that far down as opposed to the last pic, which is the screen cap I posted from the Channel 10 video. Have a look at the third pic. Is that blurred area Allison? if not why blur it? Take note of the distance from the bridge to the ground. Not very far at all IMO but I'm not convinced that that blurred area is Allison. If you compare the vegetation in the second pic, the two areas look nothing alike.

The last pic is the original screen cap I posted a while back and I've overlaid the first attachment on the right top corner. I found when I was comparing the two pics in Photoshop, the overlaid pic lined up perfectly with the pylons etc. so I left it that way to show where the first attachment is in comparison to the the original screen cap.

Hope that all makes sense. :blushing: Having said all that, IMO Allison was not dumped where she was found but was washed down to where she came eventually came to rest.

View attachment 25655

View attachment 25656

View attachment 25653

View attachment 25654

Yup - them's the ones - thanks Makara.

To me, it looks like Allison was found reasonably high up, above those last two pylons. There appears to be either a woman or a policeman in a sleeveless wetsuit at the closest pylon, and another policeman at the other pylon, possibly holding the end of what looks like a yellow measuring tape that the lower policeman is holding.

And I agree about the blurring - it would be blurred because it's Allison's body. The only thing against that is that the area of blurring looks to be OUTSIDE the bridge, whereas in the other pics, the body (we assume) appears to be well under it. But that could also be the changing angle of view from the helicopter.

Interesting to speculate, isn't it? I wonder if the court will be shown good high-res photos of that site, to settle that question?

 

[Mountain Misst]

Yup - them's the ones - thanks Makara.

The blurring would have been done by someone at the TV station, would it not? They may have been wrong in their identifying where the corpse was.

Look down further to where Makara has "Allison" marked Doc. This is much closer to the water than the two top pylons.

 

[enthralled]

Could the third pic be a tarp or boot liner as discussed earlier re wrapping of body?
From the air the cameraman may have thought the body was under that tarp when infact it was directly under the bridge.

 

[enthralled]

What galls me in that link above is the "contributes to the provision of a chaplaincy service at K**** State High School"

Maybe his contribution is being used as an example of "How not to behave and lead your life"

 

[DrWatson]

The blurring would have been done by someone at the TV station, would it not? They may have been wrong in their identifying where the corpse was.

Look down further to where Makara has "Allison" marked Doc. This is much closer to the water than the two top pylons.

Point taken about the TV station doing the blurring - definitely another layer of potential error there.

But that red arrow labelled as Allison is the original one on the Channel 10 screencap, and to me that doesn't look like a body - looks more like some debris, bits of old tree, similar to what the policeman standing below has one foot up on etc. I think the first couple of those pics show Allison just above the two pylons, with the diver at one pillar, and the other pillar with the policeman holding the end of the yellow tape. I think...

That last pic is Makara's original Channel 10 one with the first pic overlaid at top right - but the overlaid one is Channel 7 which Makara put up later, and I think it shows the body above the pylons

 

[alioop]

Sorry Makara, I thought that when you put up those pictures previously ( and thank you for them as they are helpful) that you ended up discounting the body being whatever was above the pylon base. I understand that you are now saying that you think it is Allison there and not in the lower position.

Personally I think the body is below the pylon base.

 

[Makara]

Yup - them's the ones - thanks Makara.

To me, it looks like Allison was found reasonably high up, above those last two pylons. There appears to be either a woman or a policeman in a sleeveless wetsuit at the closest pylon, and another policeman at the other pylon, possibly holding the end of what looks like a yellow measuring tape that the lower policeman is holding.

And I agree about the blurring - it would be blurred because it's Allison's body. The only thing against that is that the area of blurring looks to be OUTSIDE the bridge, whereas in the other pics, the body (we assume) appears to be well under it. But that could also be the changing angle of view from the helicopter.

Interesting to speculate, isn't it? I wonder if the court will be shown good high-res photos of that site, to settle that question?

Yes Doc, it is interesting to speculate and that's basically all I'm doing with these pics. I'm sure that there are plenty of hi-res photos that will be shown in court. I don't think that the public will get to see them though.

MOO.

 

[Makara]

Could the third pic be a tarp or boot liner as discussed earlier re wrapping of body?
From the air the cameraman may have thought the body was under that tarp when infact it was directly under the bridge.

enthralled that is a very good point and something I'd not thought of before.

Point taken about the TV station doing the blurring - definitely another layer of potential error there.

But that red arrow labelled as Allison is the original one on the Channel 10 screencap, and to me that doesn't look like a body - looks more like some debris, bits of old tree, similar to what the policeman standing below has one foot up on etc. I think the first couple of those pics show Allison just above the two pylons, with the diver at one pillar, and the other pillar with the policeman holding the end of the yellow tape. I think...

That last pic is Makara's original Channel 10 one with the first pic overlaid at top right - but the overlaid one is Channel 7 which Makara put up later, and I think it shows the body above the pylons

BBM.

Yes Doc, when that particular pic is zoomed to over 200% it does look more like debris and bits of old tree as you said. The light coloured area to the right of the 'body' looks to be more like a rock or light coloured mud similar to that seen on the left of the policeman. The 'photographer' when zoomed looks more like vegetation and is the same colour as the vegetation to the left of him.

What you see as a diver in a sleeveless wetsuit, is actually a woman dressed in black pants and a sleeveless black top and yes, the policeman is holding a yellow tape which reaches to another policeman standing next to the left hand pylon and there is another policeman standing to his right and more under the bridge.

MOO.

 

[Makara]

Sorry Makara, I thought that when you put up those pictures previously ( and thank you for them as they are helpful) that you ended up discounting the body being whatever was above the pylon base. I understand that you are now saying that you think it is Allison there and not in the lower position.

Personally I think the body is below the pylon base.

BBM.

No alioop, I'm not saying that. I just wanted to show both lots of pics for comparison. I'm confused by all of them to be quite honest. I was told that I was wrong in my assumption of the pics from the Channel 7 video by a sleuther supposedly in the know and I subsequently amended what I originally said in regard to them but I now think that it is a good idea to look at all of them for comparison. Enthralled made a good point about it perhaps being a tarp etc. further up in the Channel 7 screen caps.

 

[Fuskier]

Yup - them's the ones - thanks Makara.

To me, it looks like Allison was found reasonably high up, above those last two pylons. There appears to be either a woman or a policeman in a sleeveless wetsuit at the closest pylon, and another policeman at the other pylon, possibly holding the end of what looks like a yellow measuring tape that the lower policeman is holding...

There has been some confusion throughout the Threads about which photographs show the position of the body; this seems due to the different angles, sunlight angle with long shadow, etc. depending upon what time in the afternoon these photos were taken. We know the body was found around 11.30 am as reported in MSM. The sun would have been high in the midday sky at around that time and not casting such a long shadow. It may have taken a few more hours for the media to be allowed to photograph. We know that Police don't move the body until thoroughly examined forensically which looks like what is happening there. In my opinion, the first photo shows the body where it was found. It also looks like there is some kind of Police marker (white square) in the background that they sometimes use to mark locations of evidence etc. MOO.

 

[Makara]

There has been some confusion throughout the Threads about which photographs show the position of the body; this seems due to the different angles, sunlight angle with long shadow, etc. depending upon what time in the afternoon these photos were taken. We know the body was found around 11.30 am as reported in MSM. The sun would have been high in the midday sky at around that time and not casting such a long shadow. It may have taken a few more hours for the media to be allowed to photograph. We know that Police don't move the body until thoroughly examined forensically which looks like what is happening there. In my opinion, the first photo shows the body where it was found. It also looks like there is some kind of Police marker (white square) in the background that they sometimes use to mark locations of evidence etc. MOO.

Fuskier, you beat me to it, I was just about to mention the time taken from discovery to recovery of Allison's body. As you say, Allison was found about 11:30am and from memory she wasn't lifted to the bridge until about 5:30pm. The differing casts of sunlight and shadows are clearly evident in the screen caps. Some of the shadows play tricks with eyes and create things that just aren't there. We're also looking at screen caps of a video taken from a helicopter so their resolution is not too good at all no matter how much I try to enhance them.

 

[Thinking]

Something I have been thinking about for a while is the rumour that Allison's murder was preplanned but it was supposed to happen when the Brookfield show was on a month later.

I just cannot work out how this rumour could come about if it had any truthfulness to it. This knowledge would be extremely intimate to the murderer, it's not something that the accused would have mentioned to anyone in the local community. Even if someone else was involved in the planning of the murder, and I don't think this is the case, then they aren't going to be revealing this info.

I doubt it came from TM, if she had told police this info then she is admitting she knew something about it. Nothing else has leaked out about what she has told the police that implicates her in any way other than a gullible mistress. Sure she was putting pressure on the accused to leave Allison but I don't think she had any idea that he would kill his wife and is as shocked as the rest of us, probably more so as she was in love with him and totally fallen for his charms.

So my thoughts on this rumour are that someone overheard someone else saying something like " Well he probably planned it for when the Brookfield show was on" and there the rumour starts.

Hi alioop - the way I recall seeing this, is that not long before GBC's arrest, a poster here mentioned that they had heard local jungle drums that the mistress had "spilled" and the murder had been planned for about a month later. This hasn't really turned out to be true, although I do wonder if the catalyst for this rumour was that it WAS around the time that TM did start talking to police (which would make sense as GBC was arrested not long after).

And then, as you said, someone happened to mention that about a month later may have meant the Brookfield Show weekend. The rumour kind of took off from there.

 

[Thinking]

Maybe TM texted or rang him on the Thursday night or Friday morning to ask if he had told Allison that she would be at the same conference. Maybe that is the reason he is supposed to told the police that TM was his girlfriend when they came to the house, he knew they would find out about those texts/calls.

Hi again ali My understanding is that GBC told the police on Friday morning that he had been having an affair, but it had finished last year. This is what the police brought up at the bail hearing - GBC had told them it was over, but then they came to realise he was lying about this, as the affair was in fact ongoing. Let me know if I'm wrong on this?

But I agree - I wonder why he did tell the police about the affair that morning - to give the impression Allison had only just found out about it and had run off in a huff?

I wonder if Heartruledhead (who has made many valued contributions to the forum and we haven't seen her in a while?) would know whether or not TM attended the conference on Friday....

 

[alioop]

Would a canoist be able to see something in the vegetation up that high above the base of the pillar. I wonder how high the creek was at the time of discovery. Someone who knows tides perhaps could check it out for us.

 

[Thinking]

Just my two cents after reading all of the interesting posts last night and today about where Allison may have been left...

I had to drive over the bridge twice today (the flowers and cross looked beautiful ) and as I was driving I felt quite strongly that this murderer would not have stopped at or near the bridge. If the alleged murderer was anyone else then yes, I believe they may stop at or near the bridge in a panic. However, GBC and NBC would know this area very well, much better than the average person.

If you were aware of a better and more secluded spot nearby (eg up Wirraburra Rd) where you could park the car off the main road, you would take that option, right?

These people would know that area like the back of their hand I'm sure - through real estate and scouting. I also now believe that this is why they chose that area - familiarity. It seems too obvious and a silly choice on their part, but perhaps in their arrogance they didn't think she would be found for a looooong time - this is what I'm leaning towards. IMO

 

[Makara]

Hi alioop - the way I recall seeing this, is that not long before GBC's arrest, a poster here mentioned that they had heard local jungle drums that the mistress had "spilled" and the murder had been planned for about a month later. This hasn't really turned out to be true, although I do wonder if the catalyst for this rumour was that it WAS around the time that TM did start talking to police (which would make sense as GBC was arrested not long after).

And then, as you said, someone happened to mention that about a month later may have meant the Brookfield Show weekend. The rumour kind of took off from there.

Thanks Thinking. That's how I remember it happening also.

 

[Makara]

Totally agree with everything you've said.

Just my two cents after reading all of the interesting posts last night and today about where Allison may have been left...

I had to drive over the bridge twice today (the flowers and cross looked beautiful ) and as I was driving I felt quite strongly that this murderer would not have stopped at or near the bridge. If the alleged murderer was anyone else then yes, I believe they may stop at or near the bridge in a panic. However, GBC and NBC would know this area very well, much better than the average person.

If you were aware of a better and more secluded spot nearby (eg up Wirraburra Rd) where you could park the car off the main road, you would take that option, right?

These people would know that area like the back of their hand I'm sure - through real estate and scouting. I also now believe that this is why they chose that area - familiarity. It seems too obvious and a silly choice on their part, but perhaps in their arrogance they didn't think she would be found for a looooong time - this is what I'm leaning towards. IMO