Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[DrWatson]

I really have no idea now where she was placed...all the areas that have been mentioned seem feasible but then I read this report with this forensic consultant more or less saying the body had been placed in water.

Good find, Marly. I wonder if they know that, or that was just an assumption at that stage? Or maybe even a bit of advance arse-covering to explain the time it might take?

 

[Mani]

I agree DrWatson, I wouldn't rule out the bridge as the dumping spot except for a couple of problems.

- Too close to the road
- Too close to the Brisbane River

This is my guess for where.

Specifically this hole seemed weird to me. There was no reason why it would wash away like that except for a human or animal digging it out.

I have seem whole carcasses of dead animals (cattle, deer etc) dragged 10 metres overnight in the D'Aguilar Forest, so there are predators in there that will easily pull a body out of a hole like that.

Those kind of holes can occur after heavy rain and a lot of debris is piled up around the bases of trees.

 

[marlywings]

Good find, Marly. I wonder if they know that, or that was just an assumption at that stage? Or maybe even a bit of advance arse-covering to explain the time it might take?

It's hard to know isn't it Doc..could be just assuming she'd been in the creek as that report was from the day after her body was found. Then to confuse it even more, her body was found on the banks...not in the water.

 

[Mani]

With regards to a car backing up to the wire fence and putting the body down the bank of the Little Ugly Creek, that is to be considered and a new thought and this creek runs alongside the fence and empties into the Kholo Creek - not too far from the Kholo Bridge itself IMO. If you look at the photo of the Kholo bridge, you can see the LUC emptying into the Kholo Creek, on the right hand side and illuminated by a shaft of sunlight, near a dark log.

Refer to photo of dense uncleared undergrowth and you can see the wire fence that Dr Watson is referring to. Directly behind that fence is the LUC.

I have felt Allison was placed in and around the Little Ugly Creek since I went there. My hair stood on end at the Little Ugly but not at the bridge.

However, several days ago, I went to the Kholo Bridge at night with several other people after 8pm and it just happened to be on a Thursday night.
We stood and observed the silence. It is very quiet when there are no cars going past.

The road as it comes from the Brisbane side to the bridge is a long low hill and it is quite straight. So a car with high beam on would be able to see a car parked on the Mt Crosby Road at the bridge. IMO

However, if you look at the photos of the bridge railings, which are horizontal and have large gaps in between them, if a car did pull up alongside the railings on the bridge, the body could have been slid out of the car, using the railings as support.

Allison's blood was allegedly found on the wheel arch behind the driver's seat, which could mean she was placed with her head behind the driver and her feet on the passenger side, which would be the discharge point if parked on the bridge.MOO

However, it would have to be quick as the cars fairly fly down Mt Crosby Road and you would not want to be seen parked on the bridge in clear vision of a car's headlights.IMO

I still have strong feelings that Allison may have been placed at the Little Ugly Creek but when you look at the television file footage, the QPS are looking over the Kholo bridge on the left hand side, facing west and heading to Mt Crosby.

What was also of interest is that the site has been cleared so visibility down under the bridge is far better now than it would have been at the time when Allison disappeared.
It would have been very difficult to walk down that slope from the flattened area as it is treacherous in the dark IMO.

Also, the dirt under the bridge appeared to be quite soft and there were footprints left there that I could see, when I visited - so GBC would have left footprints in that soft dirt if he had been under the bridge. MOO

 

[DrWatson]

Yeay - now I'm on a roll with uploading photos, here's the last one. Once again, it's from Google Maps from earlier this year, before the event and before clearing.

I've tried to show how Little Ugly Creek, which comes into the picture from the top right, takes an almost 90 degree turn to its right to run almost parallel to the road for a little way, before emptying into Kholo Creek where I've indicated with the finer arrows. Kholo Creek comes into the picture from top left, and empties into the river below the bottom of the picture.

I've marked the approximate location of those two points where the dumping could have occurred. I should just mention again that there is no fence there - it stops almost behind where I reversed in today. Once again, you can see that the area was much more overgrown and hidden before the dramas occurred there.

Good photos, Mani, too - and the one showing the fence shows where it ends - just near the left edge of the picture. The two access points I'm referring to are just a bit further to the left of that end of the fence.

 

[alioop]

Good sleuthing Doc and thankyou for your expedition. Though I do have to say where are your photos? I think your theories are indeed very plausible. Wakeskates are very good too. Either location works for me and I think it more likely the body wasn't put in the water, rather on land near one of those locations close enough to the creek to be washed away with the floods.

I wonder if the QPS know where the body was dumped. They would only know for sure I would imagine if they have found evidence at the site combined with witnesses who did sight the captiva at that location and not just in the vicinity.I think it was dry for some time before the 19th April so there may not have been any mud tracks for example, just flattened grass and drag marks perhaps.

 

[marlywings]

Yeay - now I'm on a roll with uploading photos, here's the last one. Once again, it's from Google Maps from earlier this year, before the event and before clearing.

If you look on the lower edge of Google street view map it gives the image date. In this case it's December 2009....over a year before the floods, after which that whole area would have been even more overgrown than it is on the maps??

 

[alioop]

It's hard to know isn't it Doc..could be just assuming she'd been in the creek as that report was from the day after her body was found. Then to confuse it even more, her body was found on the banks...not in the water.

marlywizz, her body was found at low tide but at high tide it would have been covered by water. So she was found in the creek itself.

 

[DrWatson]

Good sleuthing Doc and thankyou for your expedition. Though I do have to say where are your photos? .

You couldn't see the photos? Don't tell me my new techie badge is about to be withdrawn???

I uploaded them to a Photobucket account, and inserted the links, so they should have shown up - two street views from Google Maps, and one overhead view, all with annotations on them....

Or were you just pulling my leg?? lease:

 

[DrWatson]

marlywizz, her body was found at low tide but at high tide it would have been covered by water. So she was found in the creek itself.

Not so sure about that, Alioop. She was a long way up the bank, and while the river is certainly tidal up there, I don't think it is quite THAT tidal on a regular tide. Don't forget that those creeks would have been WAY higher than their usual tidal variation during the flood surges, but the levels would have dropped away quite quickly, leaving debris - and bodies - stranded high and dry if snagged on something.

The creek in our paddock which I've mentioned previously can be a metre or more deep over its banks and into the paddock, but can drop to be contained within the banks in 30 minutes after a flood surge comes down from the hills around.

So my thought would be that she was washed into the creek system from the banks, out into Kholo Creek, swirled in the eddy currents around the bridge pylons, and then snagged on something just as the water level receded, leaving her high and dry.

Pure guesswork, though.....

 

[alioop]

Good find, Marly. I wonder if they know that, or that was just an assumption at that stage? Or maybe even a bit of advance arse-covering to explain the time it might take?

I think the QPS could not have been certain at that stage how long the body had been in the water. Investigations were still to occur. So I agree Doc that it may have just been an assumption at that stage as she was found in the water.

 

[alioop]

Not so sure about that, Alioop. She was a long way up the bank, and while the river is certainly tidal up there, I don't think it is quite THAT tidal on a regular tide.

Doc, we have looked at photos in earlier threads that are probably on the photo thread. There is one of some SES workers near the pylon where Allison's body was found. In that photo the water is definitely higher than where the body was found.

 

[alioop]

You couldn't see the photos? Don't tell me my new techie badge is about to be withdrawn???

I uploaded them to a Photobucket account, and inserted the links, so they should have shown up - two street views from Google Maps, and one overhead view, all with annotations on them....

Or were you just pulling my leg?? lease:

I mean real photos, not just the google map ones!! although I am impressed that you have worked out how to draw arrows and put words on photos. Not something I have yet mastered!

 

[Fuskier]

Yeay - now I'm on a roll with uploading photos, here's the last one.... <snipped>

Convincing argument you put forward Doc. Thanks for your work and effort to provide photos of the area in question, with arrows pointing to feasible dump sites. I found this visual of the area to be very helpful. IMO moves the potential from possible to probable. The alleged murderer was an experienced Scout who knew the area well. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[Onlyone]

I must admit that I find this somewhat surprising. Kholo Creek bridge is several kilometres away from the primary search area, and it is not one of the more obvious sites I would think of checking. They had helicopters searching dams on properties outside the main search area - including ours - and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they'd checked industrial bins all the way out to Sumner Park, and umpteen creeks and other more obvious dumping spots, rather than Kholo Creek bridge. But under the Kholo Creek main road bridge?

I'm not saying your friend is wrong - just that I'm surprised that they were even searching that far out. How or why would they even think to check there, given the huge number of potential dumping spots all around the area?

However, as always - time will tell... :banghead:

I was really surprised too Doc, But he was definite that it had been checked. I can't say more than that.

 

[alioop]

Doc, we have looked at photos in earlier threads that are probably on the photo thread. There is one of some SES workers near the pylon where Allison's body was found. In that photo the water is definitely higher than where the body was found.

Here is the pic Doc.

 

[alioop]

Sorry I didn't put these pics together but Doc compare the one above to this one of the location of the body well below the base of the pylon.

 

[Onlyone]

Thanks for the link Marlywings, though I don't take anything as total gospel in regards to the CM or other mainstream reporting, so just because they said the bridge area wasn't searched, hmmm, I don't know.

They also said GBC wasn't a suspect at one stage, but that I think is bollocks. I know someone who works for Queensland Police, and she told me herself, that they knew Allison was dead on day one, and that GBC had done it. She only told me this after the arrest mind you, and nothing more.

In that article you posted the link for above, it mentions Mt Crosby Weir a couple of times. Is the Weir the actual Kholo Bridge, or further away? I know I saw it on a map way back, but can't find it at the mo.

Mt Crosby weir is at least another 10 minute drive further up the road. The very first radio report I heard the day they found Allison stated a body had been found at Mt Crosby weir... which is why I didn't expect to find the road home shut as it's off the main road - will try posting a picture...

 

[regret]

Think of all the out-of-the-way places you might know (if you were lucky/unlucky) in those snogging days of old....down dirt tracks etc. Some re-activate snogging spots in their mid-life crisis'...most of us just have a VERY old murky memory and a lot of smelly socks to wash that effectively discounts such possibilities.

Think like the offender. Why would you NOT go to a known private space?Perhaps the offender has been there before. IMO MOO (what ever that means, I haven't worked it out).

I drove past the bridge (not intentionally) - it's not the bridge IMO. If it was me, I would keep driving until I thought I was alone and could not be seen. There are too many private spots out that way to suddenly find it unbearable enough to risk pulling up on an arterial road.

 

[Aunty]

I saved the photos, I'll attach them

Thank goodness you saved them. THANKYOU so much .:rocker: