Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[Couldbe]

With regard to the Captiva ....... does anyone know if that vehicle still with the Police?

We know that the white 4WD was returned to the Baden Clays.

My thinking with regard to the blood in the Captiva .... detected by forensic testing is that until it was cleaned away, there would be the likelihood of a bloodied fingerprint somewhere in the vehicle ...... that could have been missed in the cleaning.

 

[alioop]

With regard to the Captiva ....... does anyone know if that vehicle still with the Police?

We know that the white 4WD was returned to the Baden Clays.

My thinking with regard to the blood in the Captiva .... detected by forensic testing is that until it was cleaned away, there would be the likelihood of a bloodied fingerprint somewhere in the vehicle ...... that could have been missed in the cleaning.

Yes the police would still have the captiva as it contains the blood evidence. Bet no one is making the lease payments on it and the finance company can't repossess it from the police.

 

[Obsessor]

"Mr Boyle said there were "rivulets" of blood in the Baden-Clay's car, that if found to be Mrs Baden-Clay's, pointed to the Crown's theory that her body was moved." BBM

from, http://www.news.com.au/national/law...re-supreme-court/story-fndo4ckr-1226536987434

Just wondering why the dna blood profiling from the samples in the car haven't been conclusive after all this time??
I would have thought 3 months would have dna matching completed.
Any ideas, Doc, in particular, why this result isn't conclusive after all this time?
Thankyou, in anticipation.


sorry, quote is from Dec 14, 2012, the second bail hearing.

 

[Obsessor]

I just went back to the June bail hearing results, and the news article had an image of the blue luminol stain with the following written underneath.


Allison's blood in Baden-Clay's car

Police documents submitted to the Supreme court allegedly show Allison Baden-Clay's blood in her husband Gerard's car, and that he claimed scratches on his armpit, chest and neck were self-inflicted.


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2JGIXvCaN



Alioop, is this wording typical?? what does allegedly show really mean??? I thought they were saying back then that it was proven to be Allisons, but now when I look carefully at the wording, it seems maybe not??

Are they saying, the test appears to point that way but is not yet conclusive, or are they saying that it may or may not be Allisons, ie. it cant be ruled out that it is not Allisons?

 

[marlywings]

I just went back to the June bail hearing results, and the news article had an image of the blue luminol stain with the following written underneath.


Allison's blood in Baden-Clay's car

Police documents submitted to the Supreme court allegedly show Allison Baden-Clay's blood in her husband Gerard's car, and that he claimed scratches on his armpit, chest and neck were self-inflicted.


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2JGIXvCaN



Alioop, is this wording typical?? what does allegedly show really mean??? I thought they were saying back then that it was proven to be Allisons, but now when I look carefully at the wording, it seems maybe not??

Are they saying, the test appears to point that way but is not yet conclusive, or are they saying that it may or may not be Allisons, ie. it cant be ruled out that it is not Allisons?

Obsessor...in my opinion, forensics took their time testing the blood to make sure it was 110% Allison's so there'd be no disputes about it.

If you look at the info from the affadavit on CM site from back then it states...

June 22, 2012

But Justice Boddice rejected that claim, saying the circumstantial case had many factors that "if accepted by a jury" would make for a strong argument.

He said those included

- Allison's blood was found in the rear of Baden-Clay's car, consistent with "her body being moved by being placed in the rear of the car".

And also...

Earlier, The Courier Mail reported that blood was found in the rear of Gerard and Allison Baden-Clays' family car that was confirmed to be hers, according to a police affidavit submitted to a Supreme Court bail application hearing this morning.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615

 

[Obsessor]

Obsessor...in my opinion, forensics took their time testing the blood to make sure it was 110% Allison's so there'd be no disputes about it.

If you look at the info from the affadavit on CM site from back then it states...

June 22, 2012

But Justice Boddice rejected that claim, saying the circumstantial case had many factors that "if accepted by a jury" would make for a strong argument.

He said those included

- Allison's blood was found in the rear of Baden-Clay's car, consistent with "her body being moved by being placed in the rear of the car".



And also...

Earlier, The Courier Mail reported that blood was found in the rear of Gerard and Allison Baden-Clays' family car that was confirmed to be hers, according to a police affidavit submitted to a Supreme Court bail application hearing this morning.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lay-bail-hearing/story-e6freon6-1226405120615

It seems that the reporting is different in different articles.

I just find it hard to understand why, 7 months later, Danny Boyle, for the prosecution said "if found to be Mrs Baden-Clays...".
Its making me feel like the results are still not in, but I thought they were all in???

 

[Judicious]

I think this murder was very well planned...he had a deadline to meet..30th June. I think it was to look like a suicide though, the body transported in the Captiva, a phone call to Daddy ( maybe from his, Allisons or the landline ) to meet him at Kholo or maybe meet him somewhere on the way to Kholo Creek and leave the Captiva at the bridge. However, they then noticed blood on Allison and in the back of the Captiva and then realized they couldn't leave the car at Kholo creek and there wasn't time to clean the blood in the back of the car and drive back out to Kholo Creek...so that blew their suicide theory of Allison being depressed and jumping off the bridge... They then had to quickly make up a story about Allison going for a walk and that's where all the lies became totally confused. NOT a good actor GBC.....The one thing I will never agree with though is that Allisons hand/s were removed..if they were we would have heard about it when we heard about the chipped tooth.
MOO...hope everyone in the flooded areas have all stayed safe...

 

[LadyBird1]

does anyone remember very early on someone whose property backs onto kholo creek mentioning their two german shepherds howling mournfully late that thursday night, as though they sensed death?
also, i know it sounds far fetched, but is it possible someone was paid to dispose of allison and gbc is prepared to sit it out knowing there is absolutely nothing they can pin on him?
could it have been someone allison was seeing who gbc knew and encouraged?
i remember reading early rumours from someone who seemed to know a lot about them who mentioned another man, its just another scenario and it probably doesnt fit in with the facts.
trying to look at all angles and possibilities, i think there will be a lot of shocking surprises.

This post stands out to me like the proverbial ....pimple on a pumpkin.
I love dogs and I think it is reciprocal. Not a dog whisperer so to speak, but must have "something" that links me to them. (Love Ceser Millan!)

The two shepherds howling late Thursday night: Any confirmation of this?
Are there dingoes in the area?
Reason for asking; German shepherds aren't natural howlers, meaning they don't normally howl, without being coerced by their owners (or triggered either by certain music, or by dingoes.)
Ha ha! If you can finally get them to howl, they sound just like wolves! Pure unadulterated howlers! Musical sort of, in a spiritual way.
I for one would like to hear more on this. What time? Where? And the circumstances. (Party? Owners playing silly buggers? Or was it out of the blue?)
Second reason for pushing this, Shepherds (very sound dogs especially) are not prone to venting this howling phenomena. It is a very intimate and spiritual language.
Third reason: Some dogs can literally sense when a human spirit is leaving its body, and they will do the going away signals and songs. Best manifested in howling.
Fourth reason: Was this the precise time Allison's spirit was leaving her body? Give or take 5 minutes or so.

I don't expect the judge or jury to take this into consideration, but as sleuthers, and/ or people who understand a teeny weeny bit of dog language, it may pay to look a little further here, for no other reason than to give a time frame.
Explanation: Dogs and horses speak from the soul. We just need to understand the language or translation.
The dogs going off like crazy might have been telling of human torment. (Scraps)
The Shepherds might have been telling of a human spirit leaving.

 

[emirates1957]

This post stands out to me like the proverbial ....pimple on a pumpkin.
I love dogs and I think it is reciprocal. Not a dog whisperer so to speak, but must have "something" that links me to them. (Love Ceser Millan!)

The two shepherds howling late Thursday night: Any confirmation of this?
Are there dingoes in the area?
Reason for asking; German shepherds aren't natural howlers, meaning they don't normally howl, without being coerced by their owners (or triggered either by certain music, or by dingoes.)
Ha ha! If you can finally get them to howl, they sound just like wolves! Pure unadulterated howlers! Musical sort of, in a spiritual way.
I for one would like to hear more on this. What time? Where? And the circumstances. (Party? Owners playing silly buggers? Or was it out of the blue?)
Second reason for pushing this, Shepherds (very sound dogs especially) are not prone to venting this howling phenomena. It is a very intimate and spiritual language.
Third reason: Some dogs can literally sense when a human spirit is leaving its body, and they will do the going away signals and songs. Best manifested in howling.
Fourth reason: Was this the precise time Allison's spirit was leaving her body? Give or take 5 minutes or so.

I don't expect the judge or jury to take this into consideration, but as sleuthers, and/ or people who understand a teeny weeny bit of dog language, it may pay to look a little further here, for no other reason than to give a time frame.
Explanation: Dogs and horses speak from the soul. We just need to understand the language or translation.
The dogs going off like crazy might have been telling of human torment. (Scraps)
The Shepherds might have been telling of a human spirit leaving.

Me too love Cesar Milan. I am certainly no expert in this field....however being a dog owner all of my life. I can remember there was a gangland murder some 15 years ago just around the corner. The murder happened outside when the victim exited his car. There were no gunshots however neighbors heard loud yet muffled noises. I had 3 dogs at the time, all reacted whilst they didn't howl they did bark they needed to alert the pack leader that there was something wrong they would also react the same hours before we had thunder storms. I was in Kruger earlier this year even prior to an animal kill there would be hyenas, vultures, jackals enmasse before a drop of blood was spilt. This certainly does not come from an educated background just life experiences.

 

[bearbear]

This post stands out to me like the proverbial ....pimple on a pumpkin.
I love dogs and I think it is reciprocal. Not a dog whisperer so to speak, but must have "something" that links me to them. (Love Ceser Millan!)

The two shepherds howling late Thursday night: Any confirmation of this?
Are there dingoes in the area?
Reason for asking; German shepherds aren't natural howlers, meaning they don't normally howl, without being coerced by their owners (or triggered either by certain music, or by dingoes.)
Ha ha! If you can finally get them to howl, they sound just like wolves! Pure unadulterated howlers! Musical sort of, in a spiritual way.
I for one would like to hear more on this. What time? Where? And the circumstances. (Party? Owners playing silly buggers? Or was it out of the blue?)
Second reason for pushing this, Shepherds (very sound dogs especially) are not prone to venting this howling phenomena. It is a very intimate and spiritual language.
Third reason: Some dogs can literally sense when a human spirit is leaving its body, and they will do the going away signals and songs. Best manifested in howling.
Fourth reason: Was this the precise time Allison's spirit was leaving her body? Give or take 5 minutes or so.

I don't expect the judge or jury to take this into consideration, but as sleuthers, and/ or people who understand a teeny weeny bit of dog language, it may pay to look a little further here, for no other reason than to give a time frame.
Explanation: Dogs and horses speak from the soul. We just need to understand the language or translation.
The dogs going off like crazy might have been telling of human torment. (Scraps)
The Shepherds might have been telling of a human spirit leaving.

yes, i agree, i love dogs and know they are very intuitive, so when i read the initial post i found it very telling, it was quite eerie. just wish i could remember who posted it, it may have even been a msm report when locals were being interviewed. i remember several other members posted their own experiences with dogs. i think the owner had said it was very unusual for them, makes you wonder if allison was actually killed there at kholo creek, maybe she took off from home in her car after a fight and scuffle outside at home,(plant evidence on her clothes and scraps barking) then terrified for her life, tried to escape in her car only to be chased in the other car, her screams would have travelled and the dogs nearby sensed the danger.
could that be what was unusual at the roundabout, erratic driving, then someone was needed to drive the other car home.
i know it was discounted, but i still wonder about the reporter asking the police about the captiiva? being seen parked at the showgrounds very early next morning, could they have driven it there to give the inside a good clean with bleach etc so there was no possibility of dna evidence dripping on the ground at home, then driven it home where it was when police arrived.?

 

[bearbear]

i found this msm link with allison sandy talking about the five clues to the puzzle, the last one they talk about the screams and dogs barking and howling and they mention sasha the five year old german shepherd (just one shepherd, not two like i thought)
hope the link works. i typed allison baden clay german shepherds barking into google and lots came up but a lot no longer available.
http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/...in-killer-search/story-e6frfkp9-1226381007225

 

[bearbear]

also found on thread 37 page 25 where the dogs are discussed again by mani, cj60 and linette, was it wirraburra road where the shepherd lived?

and this on thread 31 page 41 the msm link no longer works though
http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx
Re the dogs barking...

Brian Mason woke abruptly at his Anstead home about the same time that Allison Baden-Clay vanished. Some time between 11pm and 3am his five year-old german shepherd Sasha started howling and wouldn't stop. He said the neighbour's dogs had also been barking and howling.

 

[Couldbe]

3.34pm: Defence barrister Peter Davis said Telstra phone records showed it was possible someone had used Mrs Baden-Clay's mobile phone in the Fig Tree Pocket area at 6.51am on April 20, the day she was reported missing by her husband.

With regard to Allison's Iphone - there could have been some incriminating evidence on it, but GBC probably just thought it was a good idea to dispose of it .... in keeping with the story about her disappearance since her 'walk'.

He is indicating that he 'knew she would have the phone with her' if/when she walked (even though it may have been in his possession during the triangulation).

Point 1:....Why he didn't actually phone her instead of just sending text messages is odd .... but I guess he needed to have a record for the Police.

Point 2:....I guess her phone was, at 6.51am, just inadvertently checked to verify messages were received ....before he phoned 000, or maybe someone else tried phoning Allison (a relative or one of Allison's friends....using the mobile phone could really include someone just phoning it).

Point 3:....One would think that Allison would have re-charged her IPhone on the night before the Conference .... her phone was obviously was very low on battery by 3pm (Police doing triangulating), and hadn't been charged up since the last time while she was alive!

JMO .....that this lends weight to Allison's disappearance on the night before the 20 Apr.

 

[Maigret]

3.34pm: Defence barrister Peter Davis said Telstra phone records showed it was possible someone had used Mrs Baden-Clay's mobile phone in the Fig Tree Pocket area at 6.51am on April 20, the day she was reported missing by her husband.

With regard to Allison's Iphone - there could have been some incriminating evidence on it, but GBC probably just thought it was a good idea to dispose of it .... in keeping with the story about her disappearance since her 'walk'.

He is indicating that he 'knew she would have the phone with her' if/when she walked (even though it may have been in his possession during the triangulation).

Point 1:....Why he didn't actually phone her instead of just sending text messages is odd .... but I guess he needed to have a record for the Police.

Point 2:....I guess her phone was, at 6.51am, just inadvertently checked to verify messages were received ....before he phoned 000, or maybe someone else tried phoning Allison (a relative or one of Allison's friends....using the mobile phone could really include someone just phoning it).

Point 3:....One would think that Allison would have re-charged her IPhone on the night before the Conference .... her phone was obviously was very low on battery by 3pm (Police doing triangulating), and hadn't been charged up since the last time while she was alive!

JMO .....that this lends weight to Allison's disappearance on the night before the 20 Apr.

Good point re the checking that messages were received on the phone also re charging her phone - though poor thing was probably going to re charge as she slept ( as I do)

 

[Curiousasacat]

Testing.....

I put up a post yesterday with some old MSM links but it didn't appear.
Poop, not sure I can find them again. I was trolling through the old threads.

 

[ollijack]

I think this murder was very well planned...he had a deadline to meet..30th June. I think it was to look like a suicide though, the body transported in the Captiva, a phone call to Daddy ( maybe from his, Allisons or the landline ) to meet him at Kholo or maybe meet him somewhere on the way to Kholo Creek and leave the Captiva at the bridge. However, they then noticed blood on Allison and in the back of the Captiva and then realized they couldn't leave the car at Kholo creek and there wasn't time to clean the blood in the back of the car and drive back out to Kholo Creek...so that blew their suicide theory of Allison being depressed and jumping off the bridge... They then had to quickly make up a story about Allison going for a walk and that's where all the lies became totally confused. NOT a good actor GBC.....The one thing I will never agree with though is that Allisons hand/s were removed..if they were we would have heard about it when we heard about the chipped tooth.
MOO...hope everyone in the flooded areas have all stayed safe...

YES YES....totally agree......was planned and stuffed up by the fool....but I believe his father was completely in it.

 

[ollijack]

This post stands out to me like the proverbial ....pimple on a pumpkin.
I love dogs and I think it is reciprocal. Not a dog whisperer so to speak, but must have "something" that links me to them. (Love Ceser Millan!)

The two shepherds howling late Thursday night: Any confirmation of this?
Are there dingoes in the area?
Reason for asking; German shepherds aren't natural howlers, meaning they don't normally howl, without being coerced by their owners (or triggered either by certain music, or by dingoes.)
Ha ha! If you can finally get them to howl, they sound just like wolves! Pure unadulterated howlers! Musical sort of, in a spiritual way.
I for one would like to hear more on this. What time? Where? And the circumstances. (Party? Owners playing silly buggers? Or was it out of the blue?)
Second reason for pushing this, Shepherds (very sound dogs especially) are not prone to venting this howling phenomena. It is a very intimate and spiritual language.
Third reason: Some dogs can literally sense when a human spirit is leaving its body, and they will do the going away signals and songs. Best manifested in howling.
Fourth reason: Was this the precise time Allison's spirit was leaving her body? Give or take 5 minutes or so.

I don't expect the judge or jury to take this into consideration, but as sleuthers, and/ or people who understand a teeny weeny bit of dog language, it may pay to look a little further here, for no other reason than to give a time frame.
Explanation: Dogs and horses speak from the soul. We just need to understand the language or translation.
The dogs going off like crazy might have been telling of human torment. (Scraps)
The Shepherds might have been telling of a human spirit leaving.

thankyou Ladybird...thats so interesting xx

 

[Liadan]

Bear Bear I think the German Shepherd Sasha was at Anstead on properties nearby where Allison's body was dumped.
Wirriburra road is near the roundabout close to boscombe rd and Brookfield rd.

 

[bearbear]

Bear Bear I think the German Shepherd Sasha was at Anstead on properties nearby where Allison's body was dumped.
Wirriburra road is near the roundabout close to boscombe rd and Brookfield rd.

ok, thats interesting thankyou. i only got the wirraburra rd connection from reading some past posts where somebody thought thats where the dog was.
im not from the area so its quite confusing. sounds like lots of dogs in the area were barking uncharacteristcly! if only sasha could tell us what happened!

 

[Couldbe]

http://www.news.com.au/national-old...ret-until-arrest/story-e6frfkvr-1226381604075

...."It is understood Mrs Baden-Clay's body was cleared for release for burial only a day after she was found, with police confident they had the information they needed."

This did seem to be a short period of time ..... it would seem that the Police must certainly have been extremely confident that they wouldn't need Allison's body even just one more day. JMO