Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[Nads]

...Okay Gerard, under the circumstances ..... your strong affair and all, how about you assign your rights to all of Allison's insurance assets etc to your three daughters .... now. There is a legal way that the money could be allocated to their needs as required. JMO

Oh so true.

That article about the inheritance, it just assumes the girls won't get the money if GBC inherits, which from past form is a good assumption.

 

[possumheart]

This bothers me:
Baden-Clay said police applied to have him assessed by a psychiatrist for risk of self-harm after his car crashed in to pylons at Indooroopilly but he was released from hospital.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-baden-clay-denies-hes-a-flight-risk-although-charged-with-wife-allisons-murder/story-e6freoof-1226412721085

 

[Fuskier]

There was talk of teenagers skylarking, true. But I have never heard that story was officially confirmed or denied.
I would have thought, given the circumstances, it would have been front page headlines, together with some red faced teens apologizing, and explaining their actions. And acknowledging the seriousness of said skylarking, circumstances being what they were.
Then the QPS making a statement to the effect the screams were teens skylarking.
There have been plenty of Red Herrings deliberately thrown arown around from day one. All casting doubt on the Crown's case.
The most important thing appears to be how "evidences" stand up in court.

I remain circumspect on the screams. We don't know what actually happened. By way of metaphor, we are all on the outside of this murder, trying to piece together bits of the puzzle. We don't have all of the pieces yet, so we don't know where some of the pieces fit yet. We assume that the murder took place inside the house. But we cannot rule out that Allison, GBC or someone else was near Rafting Ground Rd at that time of night, reason unknown, that she screamed, was hit over the head with a rock, hurriedly put in the Captiva, hurriedly taken home, taken out of the car, dragged on to the back patio. Her clothes may have been changed there. She may have been unconscious, woke up, then was suffocated/strangled, scratched her attacker in the fight for her life. IMO there are any number of scenarios which are possible. We don't have all of the pieces yet, so cannot state that the screams have been discounted. My opinion only.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Just a thought. We cannot say that Allison's diary was 'private' when GBC and possibly others may have had access to it. It could be in the interest of the alleged killer to 'deflect' public perception on to the affair with TMcH, Allison's depression, her feelings about the affair and possible suicide. However, this may mask the more crucial issue of: "Where has all the money gone?". Allison was successful in her own right before she ever married GBC. Despite a degree of depression, she appears to have managed multi-skilling the care of 3 primary school age children with after school interests, the household, her part-time work, forging a new career at Pathways along with being a dutiful wife. This is evidence of a competent woman. It is possible that she wanted to know where all the money had gone. Her eldest DTR was due to start at IGGS in 2013. I doubt that she would be so consumed with the affair that this aspect would escape her. Her enquiries about the money might have inflammed an argument with GBC who was already 'burning' given his alleged financial situation, business situation and personal life situation. My opinion only.

:goodpost: Fuskier. I had this train of thought also. The implications are certainly there by the BC clan that Allison was depressed and somewhat incompetent. I truly hope the defence do not try and sully Allison's name at trial.
I do believe she would have enquired about the money also.

 

[Curiousasacat]

:floorlaugh:

This bothers me:
Baden-Clay said police applied to have him assessed by a psychiatrist for risk of self-harm after his car crashed in to pylons at Indooroopilly but he was released from hospital.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-baden-clay-denies-hes-a-flight-risk-although-charged-with-wife-allisons-murder/story-e6freoof-1226412721085

Probably because they thought no one could be so stupid as to run into it.
:floorlaugh:

 

[Couldbe]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...e-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434#
Excerpt as follows:
"The affair ... looks equally as consistent with a motivation of suicide as it does with... (murder)."

He said packets of Zoloft were found in the couple's Holden Captive and in the carport of the couple's Brookfield home.

"In my submission it's clearly open, so as the Crown would have to exclude, in this case, they would have to exclude suicide given the toxicology report," Mr Davis said.

2.55pm: Mr Davis said: "We don't set out to prove there is a suicide".

He said while the autopsy report was unable to find a cause of death, it "points out drug toxicity is quite likely".

The angle of GBC's legal team seems to be focusing on drug toxicity in Allison's body....... why an Ambulance was not called for her that night/early next morning (instead of taking her out to Kholo Creek) remains to be explained by those involved ....GBC and/or others.
....the other injuries to Allison's body would not have been inflicted by herself, and this is a point that the Crown makes. More crucial evidence to link the person(s) responsible is no doubt going to surface.

 

[Thinking]

My apologies for the three separate GBC versions. The more I searched the more inconsistencies became evident.
In the end I didn't know if I was coming or going.

Thanks for your efforts LB! I think it would also be interesting to put in the time that activity was registered on allisons phone that morning, and also when it registered on gbc's phone, from memory it was a few minutes later? Would be interesting to see where this phone activity fits within the timeline.

 

[AAAA]

Hope this is allowed......

It would be difficult choice to separate the girls so early on....The eldest would most surly have to be a boarder at IGGS....her siblings would surely miss her.....Wonder what GBC would think....I hope he has no controll over what Allisons parents think is best though.

Would be a hard call.....:banghead:
I feel the agony of their summing up what is in the best interest for all concerned.....

I'm just wondering why you think the daughter would have to board? I went there and came from Brisbane but caught the bus and train to school each day.

 

[alioop]

An excerpt from the above article informs that new documents have been filed in Brisbane's District Court where a lawyer for the children is seeking "adequate provision" from Allison's estate for the couple's three children, aged six, nine and 11. If GBC was convicted, the children would be substitute beneficiaries. If acquitted, likely GBC would inherit all proceeds. The children's litigation guardian has asked for the application to be stayed until after GBC court case is finalised. Good to see that legal moves have been made to secure the financial future of the children in this tragic situation. My opinion only.

I am very happy to hear that a litigation guardian has been appointed for the girls and a family provision application filed to protect their interests in the estate in case gbc is acquitted. I had been hoping this would be done.

 

[Makara]

and again...lol....sorry, thinking as I write....

s,. if the 2 assistants arrived before he went out driving around, which I'd presume they would have, they must have arrived by "about" 7??? so the call to them must have gone out at "about" 6.30??? to allow them time to jump up, throw on some clothes and head across in the car???

It still seems VERY early for such enormous panic and calling for back-up.
Allison wasn't VERY late at that stage.

It is very hard to believe this family does not know what happened to Allison, or at least have suspicions.

BBM.

According to court documents, this is exactly what happened. :twocents:

 

[marlywings]

This bothers me:
Baden-Clay said police applied to have him assessed by a psychiatrist for risk of self-harm after his car crashed in to pylons at Indooroopilly but he was released from hospital.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-baden-clay-denies-hes-a-flight-risk-although-charged-with-wife-allisons-murder/story-e6freoof-1226412721085

It doesn't bother me possum...not when it's "Baden Clay said". IF it had been "police said", well it's a different story but it's come from an habitual liar.

He also said the following load of ....

December 15, 2012

Other released documents reveal Baden-Clay went to the Kenmore Clinics Medical Practice at 8.30am the day after reporting his wife missing. He asked Dr Candice Beaven to look at cuts on his face.

"He told Dr Beaven that police had advised him to have his injuries documented," the documents state.

"No police officer on the brief stated that they advised the applicant to do this."


http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...baden-clays-face/story-fndo4ckr-1226537344568

 

[possumheart]

It doesn't bother me possum...not when it's "Baden Clay said". IF it had been "police said", well it's a different story but it's come from an habitual liar.

Good point Marly ... and I don't have a link at the moment, but Mister BC also said he 'had been told' to stay away from the search command post, which we know isn't true ...

... honesty and integrity ... :notgood:

 

[Inspector]

I'm just wondering why you think the daughter would have to board? I went there and came from Brisbane but caught the bus and train to school each day.

It's my understanding that the 3 B-C girls are still living in Brookfield with the Dickies and attending their normal school. The eldest girl could commute to IGGS surely? I was upset by the recent report re beneficiaries. It stated the girls, aged 6, 9 & 11. I have those treasures frozen in ages 5, 8 & 10. It crushes me to think they have all had their first birthday without their mother...:tears::tears::tears:

 

[GEANIE]

It's my understanding that the 3 B-C girls are still living in Brookfield with the Dickies and attending their normal school. The eldest girl could commute to IGGS surely? I was upset by the recent report re beneficiaries. It stated the girls, aged 6, 9 & 11. I have those treasures frozen in ages 5, 8 & 10. It crushes me to think they have all had their first birthday without their mother...:tears::tears::tears:

First birthdays....first X'Mass and a new school for the eldest all without their MUM.....am sure she must be looking down on them and very proud......as she would be of her parents......

 

[LadyBird1]

Good point Marly ... and I don't have a link at the moment, but Mister BC also said he 'had been told' to stay away from the search command post, which we know isn't true ...

... honesty and integrity ... :notgood:

Whilst researching the time frame for events I came across that news report where he said he had been told to stay away from the command post.
(All I need to do now is find it again! It was in a written news report not a video)

Also it has come to my attention that another time frame much longer may be of some benefit, but it will take much longer to put it together And it would be very lengthy.
I was surprised just how much I had missed in reports until I started this exercise.
Not sure why but I can't seem to edit my posts. (Still not sure how websleuths works)

For instance, it pays to check as many as possible news reports.
I came across one today that should have been included.

April 30, 2012 (The day of discovery) Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found by a canoeist at Kholo Creek.

Police allege Mr Baden-Clay contacted his financial advisor who made a "further query" with one of the life insurance providers.

May 1, 2012 One of the life insurers was advised "of a pending claim on that policy" by Mr Baden-Clay's financial advisor. Mrs Baden-Clay's body was yet to be formally identified.

Police allege Mr Baden Clay "urgently sought a death certificate for the deceased".

May 21, 2012 A death certificate for Mrs Baden-Clay was issued. Police allege Mr Baden-Clay lodged claims with each of Mrs Baden-Clay's policies and "further asked that these claims be expedited".

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2Hw6Ixs9D

If I, or someone does another timeline of events, it might be better to start with with asking Bruce Flegg for money December 2011 (Baden-Clay said he needed $400,000 to pay out business partners.) He tried again in March 2012
Flegg didn't play ball.
Then on the night of the murder at 10.53 pm Sue Heath said in a police statement she was talking to Dr Flegg on the phone at about 10.53pm when he heard the first scream. "When he went to check it out at the front of his house he heard a second scream," reads the statement, lodged in court for Baden-Clay's bail application this week.

Dr Flegg's home sits high on a hill about 1km from the house where Gerard and Allison Baden-Clay lived at Brookfield.

There is a LOT of things that seemed to have gone under the radar.

The end of the time line should probably end now, as so much seems to have happened from the arrest and new office at AGCG.
For instance the sale of the jointly owned house. The ASIC changes.
The new improved version of the suicide theory. (No comment from here)
Seemed to be entire thrust of new bid for bail. "Proven" in fact by all the Zoloft boxes left lying around. And the diary entries. (Again, no comment from me.)

All I am saying is a new improved time frame of events might help.
Plus I eyeballed that report possumheart is after in the wee small hours of only last night!

 

[Zim]

Take Two

11.00am 30 April 2012 Police reveal a body has been found by a canoeist under the Kholo Creek bridge at Anstead.

1 May 2012 Police confirm the body discovered is that of Allison Baden-Clay.

11 May 2012 Allison Baden-Clay's funeral is held in Ipswich and attended by hundreds.

Approximately May 2012 "GBC called Mr Flegg and asked about the media report about the Kenmore roundabout and whether there is a camera there.

After the body was found and before it was identified didn't he phone the insurance company ? (!)

 

[Zim]

oops I see Ladybird mentioned this just before me !

 

[Zim]

He said packets of Zoloft were found in the couple's Holden Captive and in the carport of the couple's Brookfield home. .

I think whoever placed the Zoloft did so out of ignorance hoping to create questions about her mental state.
I have been on anti-depressants for years (many of those in secret due to the shame....yes really !)
Many do not understand how they work and why they are needed. This is a shame. I doubt that 'THIS' family understood and probably likened it to valium or some other tranquiliser.....
You can (I think) overdose on valium but as far as I know you cannot OD on Zoloft.
LOL, and a little irreverant (sorreeee) from all that I have read I reckon she REALLY needed that Zoloft !

 

[LadyBird1]

After the body was found and before it was identified didn't he phone the insurance company ? (!)

You got it.

30 April 012 Body found. "Mr Baden-Clay contacted his financial advisor who made a "further query" with one of the life insurance providers."

01 May 2012 Body identified. "Police allege Mr Baden Clay "urgently sought a death certificate for the deceased".

Then:

21 May 2012 A death certificate was issued. Police allege Mr Baden-Clay lodged claims with each of Mrs Baden-Clay's policies and "further asked that these claims be expedited".

 

[LadyBird1]

I think whoever placed the Zoloft did so out of ignorance hoping to create questions about her mental state.
I have been on anti-depressants for years (many of those in secret due to the shame....yes really !)
Many do not understand how they work and why they are needed. This is a shame. I doubt that 'THIS' family understood and probably likened it to valium or some other tranquiliser.....
You can (I think) overdose on valium but as far as I know you cannot OD on Zoloft.
LOL, and a little irreverant (sorreeee) from all that I have read I reckon she REALLY needed that Zoloft !

I wonder if the Zoloft packets were kept. And kept intact with the name of the person for whom intended on the packet together with the dispensing chemist. Apologies if this has been previously discussed.
Agree with you fully Zim They would have likened Zoloft to Valium. (Should have googled that first.......)