Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[alioop]

So Alioop, the witnesses have been disclosed to the defence, but not all the evidence, is that how it is? (you've probably already explained this- my brain just doesn't store legal stuff )

I'm getting muddled up with hard, cold, physical evidence, such as soil samples, scratch analysis, autopsy, and witness evidence, such as behaviour, different versions of stories, possible sightings etc.
Do you think its fair to assume that we have pretty much heard all of the physical evidence that the prosecutors have?
Have all the study results been made available to the defence??
Is it just the witness evidence that will hold surprises????


I keep getting the feeling we have heard most of what the prosecution has as far as hard evidence goes. Maybe that feeling is wrong???

Hi Obsessor, all the evidence collected by the police has been given to the defence, including witness statements, forensics, autopsy reports, everything. Even evidence that doesn't suggest GBCs guilt, if any.

We are getting to hear about the physical evidence through the bail hearing applications but I am sure there is more that we havent heard of. And of course a lot more witnesses that we don't yet know about. The police collected hundreds of statements. There will be lots of surprises for us at the committal.

 

[kiwijayne]

Hi Obsessor, all the evidence collected by the police has been given to the defence, including witness statements, forensics, autopsy reports, everything. Even evidence that doesn't suggest GBCs guilt, if any.

We are getting to hear about the physical evidence through the bail hearing applications but I am sure there is more that we havent heard of. And of course a lot more witnesses that we don't yet know about. The police collected hundreds of statements. There will be lots of surprises for us at the committal.

I know someone who has been subpoenaed to be a witness. They aren't happy about it as they are accidentally a witness so to speak.

 

[alioop]

Hi kiwijayne, I was just this evening reading some old posts and saw a couple of yours and thought I hadn't seen you for a while and now here you are back again!

Your friend must be one of the witnesses the defence wants to cross examine along with 40 others. I don't think your friend has to worry about too much grilling as there won't be much time to cross examine each witness given they only said it will take 4 days.

 

[kiwijayne]

Hi kiwijayne, I was just this evening reading some old posts and saw a couple of yours and thought I hadn't seen you for a while and now here you are back again!

Your friend must be one of the witnesses the defence wants to cross examine along with 40 others. I don't think your friend has to worry about too much grilling as there won't be much time to cross examine each witness given they only said it will take 4 days.

Breakingnews sent me a message asking me to come back to the threads as I started the original thread. I used to live 500 m from her house.

I'm not sure but I hope he gets what he deserves.

 

[Obsessor]

I used to live 500 m from her house.

Were you living there when this all happened kiwijayne?

 

[kiwijayne]

Were you living there when this all happened kiwijayne?

Yes I was. I had been at work in Brookfield and had seen all the police there and then saw all the helicopters etc searching. They also searched our land and interviewed us.

 

[bearbear]

does anyone remember very early on someone whose property backs onto kholo creek mentioning their two german shepherds howling mournfully late that thursday night, as though they sensed death?
also, i know it sounds far fetched, but is it possible someone was paid to dispose of allison and gbc is prepared to sit it out knowing there is absolutely nothing they can pin on him?
could it have been someone allison was seeing who gbc knew and encouraged?
i remember reading early rumours from someone who seemed to know a lot about them who mentioned another man, its just another scenario and it probably doesnt fit in with the facts.
trying to look at all angles and possibilities, i think there will be a lot of shocking surprises.

 

[Maigret]

does anyone remember very early on someone whose property backs onto kholo creek mentioning their two german shepherds howling mournfully late that thursday night, as though they sensed death?
also, i know it sounds far fetched, but is it possible someone was paid to dispose of allison and gbc is prepared to sit it out knowing there is absolutely nothing they can pin on him?
could it have been someone allison was seeing who gbc knew and encouraged?
i remember reading early rumours from someone who seemed to know a lot about them who mentioned another man, its just another scenario and it probably doesnt fit in with the facts.
trying to look at all angles and possibilities, i think there will be a lot of shocking surprises.

I think that the theory of another man was debunked early on - I think there was a fair bit of red herring throwing going on some of it from posters close to GBC ( my humble opinion only )

 

[Maigret]

I have just been looking back at photos of the creek where Allison's body was found - low tide - high tide etc and had a thought - what if she was 'tossed' over the bridge at low tide ( or what was thought to be low tide) with the thinking being that she would wash away into the Brisbane river at high tide. But it was actually high tide when she was put there or a high low tide ( I've just spent a couple of weeks camping and we had low high tides and have previously had very high high tides - so what I'm saying is whoever put her there may have thought they knew the tides and what would happen but really they didn't )

 

[Couldbe]

I have just been looking back at photos of the creek where Allison's body was found - low tide - high tide etc and had a thought - what if she was 'tossed' over the bridge at low tide ( or what was thought to be low tide) with the thinking being that she would wash away into the Brisbane river at high tide. But it was actually high tide when she was put there or a high low tide ( I've just spent a couple of weeks camping and we had low high tides and have previously had very high high tides - so what I'm saying is whoever put her there may have thought they knew the tides and what would happen but really they didn't )

Maigret, my thinking about this is that it would have to 'spring to mind' (by someone very familiar with this bridge area) for this to not have been planned, and for Allison's body to be there in 'a very short time' (before livor mortis occurred). On the other hand, could Allison's murder have been planned in meticulous detail ..... except for those 'things' that occurred unexpectedly.

 

[KrystalKlear]

First Time posting, though I have been here since the first week, and read every page. Haven't felt that I've had anything to contribute before this. Does anyone know whether Allison was left handed? Just wondering whether it adds any weight to the scratches being on the right side of GBC's face. MOO:seeya:

 

[Maigret]

Maigret, my thinking about this is that it would have to 'spring to mind' (by someone very familiar with this bridge area) for this to not have been planned, and for Allison's body to be there in 'a very short time' (before livor mortis occurred). On the other hand, could Allison's murder have been planned in meticulous detail ..... except for those 'things' that occurred unexpectedly.

Too true re the planning - if it was more spur of the moment and to tie in with - gone for a walk- a bit closer to home would have been chosen - maybe down a mineshaft or bundled on the side of the road ( to fit in with knocked by a car theory put out by someone early on )

 

[ozazure]

First Time posting, though I have been here since the first week, and read every page. Haven't felt that I've had anything to contribute before this. Does anyone know whether Allison was left handed? Just wondering whether it adds any weight to the scratches being on the right side of GBC's face. MOO:seeya:

When you fight for your life you use both hands if you can. I would imagine that he would be scratched on one side more than the other because he would be turning his head to get as far away, and potentially Allison would have been partially restrained ... so sorry to be graphic but if he was holding her and assaulting her somehow (suffocating, strangling) he would use his dominant side, meaning he may be holding her down on her dominant side should they be the same handed.

 

[Couldbe]

I actually see his absence as totally uncaring, rather than as showing he had a guilty conscience.
I dont think he could even act like he cared where she was found. We know he had other things on his mind, such as calling the 3 insurance companies, and trying to rush through a death certificate.
He couldn't give a s**t about Allison.

There seems to be evidence that Allison's life insurance policies were on the minds of GBC and Financial Advisor not that long before her murder.
With regard to such insurance policies... if Allison became estranged from GBC, would she have been able to change the person to whom it would be paid (in the event of ....) from her current husband to another recipient (alioop, would you be good enough to try and answer)? Thanking you.

 

[alioop]

There seems to be evidence that Allison's life insurance policies were on the minds of GBC and Financial Advisor not that long before her murder.
With regard to such insurance policies... if Allison became estranged from GBC, would she have been able to change the person to whom it would be paid (in the event of ....) from her current husband to another recipient (alioop, would you be good enough to try and answer)? Thanking you.

Yes, the insurance policies were on the minds of GBC, their insurance advisor but also Allison herself. They were looking at their policies and checking deduction of premiums from their bank statements to make sure they were paying the correct premiums. I think it was part of their financial difficulties and checking what they were spending. They had discovered that Allison was $200,000 extra insured than they thought she was as there was some life insurance attached to her superannuation that they didnt know about. 2 days before she went missing Allison had emailed their insurance advisor to ask him if he had looked into reducing her life insurance by this extra amount of $200,000 to save some money on premiums. That hadn't happened at the time of her death. Premiums for both Allison and GBC were overdue at the time she went missing.

Yes if Allison and GBC had separated ( or anytime really), they both could have changed their beneficiaries of their life insurances and super as well as changing their wills. If they had been to see a family lawyer about separation issues, this advice would have been given.

 

[Couldbe]

Yes, the insurance policies were on the minds of GBC, their insurance advisor but also Allison herself. They were looking at their policies and checking deduction of premiums from their bank statements to make sure they were paying the correct premiums. I think it was part of their financial difficulties and checking what they were spending. They had discovered that Allison was $200,000 extra insured than they thought she was as there was some life insurance attached to her superannuation that they didnt know about. 2 days before she went missing Allison had emailed their insurance advisor to ask him if he had looked into reducing her life insurance by this extra amount of $200,000 to save some money on premiums. That hadn't happened at the time of her death. Premiums for both Allison and GBC were overdue at the time she went missing.

Yes if Allison and GBC had separated ( or anytime really), they both could have changed their beneficiaries of their life insurances and super as well as changing their wills. If they had been to see a family lawyer about separation issues, this advice would have been given.

Alioop, I really appreciate you taking the time to provide such a clear response. I have to say, that it just makes me feel so sad.....this picture of Allison still being involved in trying to take an active part in finding positive solutions to their dire financial situation.

 

[Obsessor]

Does anyone remember if the caterpiller bites were verified by anyone? and, if so, who that person was?

I've been thinking it was Olivia, but cant find anything written anywhere?

 

[whitechapel]

...(respectfully sniped)...
if Allison and GBC had separated ( or anytime really), they both could have changed their beneficiaries of their life insurances and super as well as changing their wills. If they had been to see a family lawyer about separation issues, this advice would have been given.

This is a new angle. I wonder if there was any intention to change beneficiaries, could have been a catalyst? If a lawyer was consulted in relation to this, would it have been anyone now representing GBC? If so, could they be called as a witness for the prosecution?

Speaking of prosecution list, Alioop, when do you think we will get to hear about who is on the list?

I guess the police would have tracked down the doctors he visited. If so, their statements about his scratches and any other injuries would be interesting to hear.

March seemed so long away, but not anymore

 

[alioop]

This is a new angle. I wonder if there was any intention to change beneficiaries, could have been a catalyst? If a lawyer was consulted in relation to this, would it have been anyone now representing GBC? If so, could they be called as a witness for the prosecution?

Speaking of prosecution list, Alioop, when do you think we will get to hear about who is on the list?

I guess the police would have tracked down the doctors he visited. If so, their statements about his scratches and any other injuries would be interesting to hear.

March seemed so long away, but not anymore

I think if there was any intention to change beneficiaries then this would have been something Allison would have raised when she was querying reducing the amount insured. I believe that there was no separation planed at the time she went missing, though it may have been a catalyst for a big argument that night. We just don't know. It seems Allison was trying to preserve her marriage, though that may have changed had she not been killed, and found out that GBC was having several affairs including being back on with Toni.

I don't think witness lists are made public, we just have to wait to hear about the witnesses at the committal. The police most certainly have statements from the 3 doctors GBC visited. They may be included in the 43 witnesses for cross examination at the committal. We will find out soon.

 

[marlywings]

Does anyone remember if the caterpiller bites were verified by anyone? and, if so, who that person was?

I've been thinking it was Olivia, but cant find anything written anywhere?

From the first bail hearing...

June 22, 2012

Alleged scratches found on Mr Baden-Clay’s face and torso were also mentioned in court.

Mr Davis said the marks on his client’s torso were related to a “caterpillar incident” and he had witness statements attesting to that.

Mr Boyle did not disagree. But he said the Crown evidence regarding the scratches allegedly left on Mr Baden-Clay’s face were “consistent with a scratch” and “inconsistent with shaving”, which is how Mr Baden-Clay had explained them to police.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html#ixzz2JFTEzLxK