Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[CaseClosed]

Good morning. I have been reading the reports. Thank you to Makara and Alioop for making them available to us.

There is one thing that concerns me in the autopsy report where the forensic pathologist says that he waited for the body to come up to the bridge, as others put Allison's body in a tarp and stretcher. Wouldn't it have been important to check how far she was in the mud? And to have tested if a similar weighted item would sink so far, depending on if it was placed there or thrown from the bridge? Depending on the result (and remembering that there were times when the conditions were similar as on the night Allison was murdered) it would be clear if she was thrown or dragged there. If she was placed, it may have just been him, but if dragged there it could only have been done by more than one person. I am just saying this because the autopsy report says that if she had been thrown from the 14 meter height she would he would have expected other injuries. This would also clearly discount the suicide theory.

Oh, before I forget, all in my opinion, of course!!

I agree that it was unusual for the Forensic Pathologist not to have walked/climbed down to the location, but the police had taken all the photographs from the scene already and he knew that. Still, I think he should have gone down to the location. IMO.

 

[Maigret]

If I was in the middle of an argument with my partner (or even shortly after), I would not feel like calling anybody. I don't think trouble had started at that point. IMO.

Maybe Allison was already dead and he used her phone to call Olivia

 

[linette]

It also makes me gasp to see no calls to Allisons phone from NBC or EBC.

If my other half (fictional only- I'm single haha) was missing, my parents would reach for their phones and try on their own phone, in case something was not working correctly or he/she just wasnt answering me for some reason. I think this would be instinct.

Yes!! I actually went out of my way to check that. Seems there's nothing.

We've had times when we were worried about someone and it was out of character for them not to be answering their phone... Geez, the whole darn family was phoning trying to catch them at the one time they might be near their phone. Then later we all get a text saying something like "Why have i got 100 missed calls and so many messages." ... and we hadn't even got to the stage where we thought the police needed to be called.

Seems this case is all arse about.

 

[CaseClosed]

It also makes me gasp to see no calls to Allisons phone from NBC or EBC.

If my other half (fictional only- I'm single haha) was missing, my parents would reach for their phones and try on their own phone, in case something was not working correctly or he/she just wasnt answering me for some reason. I think this would be instinct.

Another aspect that would, IMO, indicate they know what happened! The fact that OW and NBC were already at the home when the first officers arrived, is also very telling!

 

[KG1]

I think this shows very controlling behaviour.

LOL, sorry not you BJ. GBC I meant.

If one is to read Paragraph 73 of Phillip Broom's statement and also Paragraph 47 of Jocelyn's statement, it gives a rather disturbing insight into what sort of life the girls may have had, when GBC was present.

 

[linette]

Maybe Allison was already dead and he used her phone to call Olivia

That is also possible... but wouldn't explain the screams later.

 

[ollijack]

I bet he wishes he could google "How does a normal person react when seeing or hearing of a horrifying autopsy report on their beloved wife."

He will want to appear innocent ofcourse.

Oh Linette, still on night shift so still brain dead, so what you wrote had me giggling again.
<modsnip>. 8(

 

[CaseClosed]

Maybe Allison was already dead and he used her phone to call Olivia

The time doesn't match with the screams though. I think she died later.

 

[bearbear]

I have thought about this for a long time.
When we were all posting a long time ago about the pics of Allison under the bridge there was talk of it looking like her face was white. I posted something about the fact I believed yes her face did look white and Hawkins "thanked" the post. He didn't thank many posts so in my opinion I believe there is more to this white jumper.

To avoid any more of my ramblings I will log out now.

yes, i have wondered what made police escalate her death to a homicide upon finding her body and before the autopsy was done. im glad allisons hands were still there and fingernails were sent for testing,

 

[wewillgetyou]

In my opinion I don't think the clothes are a peculiar size for Allison. I have many Katie's clothes and it totally depends on the item as to what size it is. Some things I am a size 14, others an 18. Their sizing is all over the place.

Can anyone tell me when witnesses go to the court are they accompanied by police at all whilst waiting to give their evidence ? I'm just thinking about OW lurking outside the courtroom. What is stopping her from speaking to the witnesses ?

I am also VERY curious as to why there were calls on the 20th April from the Yatala area. Is it possible that Allisons phone was taken and disposed of in the Logan river or any other waterway around there ? Hence why it was never discovered at Brookfield.

Now don't shoot me for this next comment :blushing:
After reading Toni McHughs statements I sort of feel a bit sorry for her. I hate her for having an affair with a married man but I'm not so sure that she was involved in what actually happened to Allison. If she was in some way involved don't you think she would have had a lawyer with her when giving statements to the police ? As an innocent person I wouldn't even think of that. I think she has just become mixed up ( trapped ) in the bizarre Baden-Clay world. I think she loves and wants to be with GBC much more than he with her.

 

[Obsessor]

I'm just wondering ... will he crack at some point? I see him as a weak individual, whose world has fallen apart. Can he hold it together for as long as it takes to complete a trial? Hmm, I'm not sure. Would the defence recommend putting him on some "calming meds" to avoid risk of him having a breakdown on the stand?

This is just my opinion, but I dont think he will. I think he is wired differently, and while we all expect to see some resemblance of human caring surface at some point in these people, we are wasting our time. They do not have it. It will not surface. What the doctor saw the day Allison was missing and GBC went about his scratches is what he is- cold, uncaring, selfish individual who thrives on affection and attention, must control those around him so as he remains in the drivers seat of life at all times, and has no conscience. If ever a conscience does appear, it is acted only, because they feel it is required to appear that way to gain your trust and further manipulate you.
They slip up, as he did at the doctors, because they are only acting when they appear to care- so when a momentary distraction presents itself, as in her desire to purchase real estate, he is immediately sidetracked from appearing bereaved. Normal people will not do this. The doctor found it startling, and it does indeed put chills up your spine. To think anyone could be so uncaring is challenging for all the rest of us who feel in the normal range of emotions. My jaw drops constantly, but this is how I believe things are in this case.

 

[BJsleuth]

I think the defense are still going to push the 'mood swings'. To my mind, mood swings don't necessarily mean suicidal. It could have been swings between anger and calm and given Allison's situation, it wouldn't be unusual. MOO

 

[CaseClosed]

Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire ...

- I slept through the night until about 6 am ... NOT!
- I've tried to find Allison using Find My Friends ... NOT!
- I cut myself shaving this morning ... NOT!
- Police told me to document the injuries on my face ... NOT!
- Police told me not to go to the Command Centre at the oval ... NOT!
- My affair with TM had finished ... NOT!

 

[Obsessor]

Yes!! I actually went out of my way to check that. Seems there's nothing.

We've had times when we were worried about someone and it was out of character for them not to be answering their phone... Geez, the whole darn family was phoning trying to catch them at the one time they might be near their phone. Then later we all get a text saying something like "Why have i got 100 missed calls and so many messages." ... and we hadn't even got to the stage where we thought the police needed to be called. Seems this case is all arse about

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! The bits I bolded made me laugh out loud. Haven't we all done that.

 

[ollijack]

This is just my opinion, but I dont think he will. I think he is wired differently, and while we all expect to see some resemblance of human caring surface at some point in these people, we are wasting our time. They do not have it. It will not surface. What the doctor saw the day Allison was missing and GBC went about his scratches is what he is- cold, uncaring, selfish individual who thrives on affection and attention, must control those around him so as he remains in the drivers seat of life at all times, and has no conscience. If ever a conscience does appear, it is acted only, because they feel it is required to appear that way to gain your trust and further manipulate you.
They slip up, as he did at the doctors, because they are only acting when they appear to care- so when a momentary distraction presents itself, as in her desire to purchase real estate, he is immediately sidetracked from appearing bereaved. Normal people will not do this. The doctor found it startling, and it does indeed put chills up your spine. To think anyone could be so uncaring is challenging for all the rest of us who feel in the noraml range of emotions. My jaw drops constantly, but this is how I believe things are in this case.

Thankyou Obsessor...thats interesting and isnt it chilling....he is one creepy dude

 

[linette]

In my opinion I don't think the clothes are a peculiar size for Allison. I have many Katie's clothes and it totally depends on the item as to what size it is. Some things I am a size 14, others an 18. Their sizing is all over the place.

Can anyone tell me when witnesses go to the court are they accompanied by police at all whilst waiting to give their evidence ? I'm just thinking about OW lurking outside the courtroom. What is stopping her from speaking to the witnesses ?

I am also VERY curious as to why there were calls on the 20th April from the Yatala area. Is it possible that Allisons phone was taken and disposed of in the Logan river or any other waterway around there ? Hence why it was never discovered at Brookfield.

Now don't shoot me for this next comment :blushing:
After reading Toni McHughs statements I sort of feel a bit sorry for her. I hate her for having an affair with a married man but I'm not so sure that she was involved in what actually happened to Allison. If she was in some way involved don't you think she would have had a lawyer with her when giving statements to the police ? As an innocent person I wouldn't even think of that. I think she has just become mixed up ( trapped ) in the bizarre Baden-Clay world. I think she loves and wants to be with GBC much more than he with her.

I understand where you're coming from about TM. People like GBC do tend to pick someone they can get an ego boost from. With her he may have got his ego boost from her constant need to have him, she wanted him. Not being mean, but she is alot more plain to look at then the others, so maybe he hoped he could keep her where he wanted her and that she would believe his lies. But in the end she DID start making demands of him... so it went from him getting what he needed from her to her having the hide to ask for something back.
In the same way we see GBC has definite personality flaws alot of the clingy, needy people do have underlying issues aswell. Knowing how GBC is he would have played her insecurity for all it was worth.

In the end, I think no matter WHO GBC was with it always had to be about him. Either the whole "Look at me, look at me!" thing or "Keep this secret, i have an image to uphold."

 

[CaseClosed]

In my opinion I don't think the clothes are a peculiar size for Allison. I have many Katie's clothes and it totally depends on the item as to what size it is. Some things I am a size 14, others an 18. Their sizing is all over the place.

Can anyone tell me when witnesses go to the court are they accompanied by police at all whilst waiting to give their evidence ? I'm just thinking about OW lurking outside the courtroom. What is stopping her from speaking to the witnesses ?

I am also VERY curious as to why there were calls on the 20th April from the Yatala area. Is it possible that Allisons phone was taken and disposed of in the Logan river or any other waterway around there ? Hence why it was never discovered at Brookfield.

Now don't shoot me for this next comment :blushing:
After reading Toni McHughs statements I sort of feel a bit sorry for her. I hate her for having an affair with a married man but I'm not so sure that she was involved in what actually happened to Allison. If she was in some way involved don't you think she would have had a lawyer with her when giving statements to the police ? As an innocent person I wouldn't even think of that. I think she has just become mixed up ( trapped ) in the bizarre Baden-Clay world. I think she loves and wants to be with GBC much more than he with her.

I agree with your last paragraph .. pretty sure TM is not involved in the murder at all.

 

[Obsessor]

I believe it was because at that point QPS was already searching and had sort of control over his actions and iPhone. Calls that afternoon may have been done by QPS using his phone. Do we know at what point did the police take his phone away?

He had his phone until the 21st April. These records show he travelled that afternoon (the Friday he reported her missing) to the Gold Coast, presumably to see his criminal defence lawyer.

 

[DrWatson]

Good point

I would put the plant evidence into the category of 'compelling circumstantial'. Undoubtedly there would be somewhere else that would have the same mix of plants and I'm sure Messrs Mahoney and Davis have scoured suburbia for another property that would provide the same plant matter. Their problem is coming up with a credible reason for Allison to have been there.

Given the strength of the evidence it would not be sufficient for the defence to simply indicate other areas where this particular mix of plant matter could be picked up. In a jury trial their argument would need to be persuasive enough for the jurors to discount the prosecutions evidence. It maybe hard to do this without discrediting GBC's version that everything was hunky dory and she just went for a walk.....

Excellent thinking again there, Actus. Sheesh, there are some good sleuths on here - the combined brainpower and opinions and ideas are truly impressive. I'd hope that the police have at least as much lateral thinking, as well as literal thinking, as there seems to be available here on WS.

Great to read everybody's contributions!

 

[linette]

It is mentioned somewhere that the police asked him to try and contact Allison again that afternoon. Not sure if it was using the app or calling? There was something though. So a couple of those calls were at least at the direction of the police. {arvo of 20th April}