Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[LadyBird1]

do you thing g emptied her handbag out on the table in exasperation looking for the phone? wondering if the daughter left allison a loving note amongst the bag contents hoping her mother would see it when she returned. how sad.

Emptied handbag on the table so that contents would come out fast. Speedy (rushed) actions noted all day including doctors visit.
Also by tipping contents of bag out in this manner, he appears to exonerate himself. "See I've got nothing to hide. Nothing whatsoever. Check this lot out"
Himself has had plenty of time to go through the handbag, And plant it neatly on the table, all ready for examination.

 

[alioop]

Which report details the Skype calls???

Neil Robertsons report.

I also hope to post the hairdressers statement when I get it in the next couple of days. I have read it a while ago. It says Allison was excited about the conference the next day and that she seemed fine. It also says the hair do was a freebie as she wasn't happy with the previous one. That's all I can really remember.

 

[Maigret]

Looking forward to the hairdressers report as well

 

[Makara]

This link may be of help in locating phone numbers.

http://www.reverseaustralia.com/lookup/0733779422/

 

[Couldbe]

It was in one of the policewoman's report that Toni gave her a page from her diary and some notes she had made at the time
Kellie Thomson - she has some interesting things including a hand written note from one of the children that she took on that Friday morning

I also think its very suss that Allison's wallet/ purse was on the table with the credit cards spread out - was he planning which one he would use first ??

In Const Kieron Ash's Statement that "Gerard then walked over to the entrance of the main bedroom and picked up a handbag that he said was Allison's. He then brought that handbag over to the dining table and emptied out some of the contents stating that he(think should be 'all') belongings were still in the handbag."
.........he had obviously checked in the handbag, and knew, at that point, that the phone would not be in there. Probably nothing untoward there in that statement. Allison had been on her phone on the previous night at around 8.30, so unless she had returned it to her handbag after that then....

 

[brizzymum]

Also, can anyone confirm if GBC was an active Geocacher, and if so his username? I've found some ingenious 'hides' since hearing about caching through this forum. perhaps it was geocaching skills that came in handy for successfully hiding the iphone in the back garden? I'm aware of the cache at kholo creek and across from the GBC house. I might have to have a looksee through some old cache logs to see what i find..

I strongly suspect GBC would have had neither the inclination nor the time to be an active geocacher...I think we all know where his 'hobby' time was spent.

 

[just desserts]

In reply to Brizzymum's last msge ( sorry I am still getting used to this!)

haha i agree. But apparently he also put his daughters to bed every night and woke them up each morning, according to TM statement. Yeah right! I think he just wanted everyone to think he was such a great guy, running a successful business and being such a hands on husband and father. People like that like to talk themselves up. Unfortunately for ABC, he used her to try to make himself look more important. That's most likely why she was never "allowed" to go to most of the work functions!

IMO

 

[Obsessor]

:welcome6: Just desserts- welcome!!!

Thanks for your introduction. I think a lot our personal situations in one way or another resonate with what Allison might have been going through at one stage or another- affairs, controlling behaviour, depression, the daily trials of raising a family, .... and we all know that life isn't always easy. What I'm meaning is, while some marriages are great, there are a great many that require a lot of work, counselling, anti-depressants, or only survive for the sake of the children, or finances, or even to uphold the good name of the family.
I think that chord that has been struck with many of us is one of the things that keeps us so intrigued, as Allisons outcome was so horrific, but for others, obviously not so. For me, its a lot about what made this situation different, and what were the warning signs etc.

Glad you've joined us.

PS. hope I'm one of your favourites!!! (jokes!!!!!!)

 

[just desserts]

:welcome6: Just desserts- welcome!!!

Thanks for your introduction. I think a lot our personal situations in one way or another resonate with what Allison might have been going through at one stage or another- affairs, controlling behaviour, depression, the daily trials of raising a family, .... and we all know that life isn't always easy. What I'm meaning is, while some marriages are great, there are a great many that require a lot of work, counselling, anti-depressants, or only survive for the sake of the children, or finances, or even to uphold the good name of the family.
I think that chord that has been struck with many of us is one of the things that keeps us so intrigued, as Allisons outcome was so horrific, but for others, obviously not so. For me, its a lot about what made this situation different, and what were the warning signs etc.

Glad you've joined us.

PS. hope I'm one of your favourites!!! (jokes!!!!!!)

Thanks for the welcome. I have been wanting to join for sooo long. I finally did it, yay
Yes you are one of my faves, close to the top of the list actually :blushing:

 

[just desserts]

In reply to Obby
I was so excited at being welcomed by one of my fave sleuths that I forgot to say what a great post that was. I couldn't have summed it up any better. Unfortunately ABC didn't have the chance to leave her miserable marriage and have a happy life, with her beautiful daughters. She wanted to make the marriage work, but little did she know that he wasn't interested in the same thing.

 

[just desserts]

I just want to say how angry I was with Davis with regard to the questioning re ABC's depression and the fact that she was on antidepressants. I realise that he is just defending GBC and trying to shoot holes through the prosecutor's evidence etc, but depression is nothing to be ashamed of and does not in any way suggest that she was suicidal imo.
The fact that ABC sought help for her depression and was on Zoloft just proves that she was getting help for her problems. The medication does make it easier to cope etc. I would think that it would be more likely for someone who is not on any medication to have suicidal thoughts. IMO

 

[SoapOnARope]

Another long time lurker introducing myself! I finally joined to enable me to access the documents (thread 43/14) and hopefully to throw in a useful thought or two along the way.

I too have been following this case closely since the outset - most likely because of 'socio-similarities' (made up term!) to my own circumstances (age, number of children, property industry...et cetera).

Like many of you, I have very little doubt that the QPS/DPP have the perpetrator in custody. Perhaps the coming week will further sure up many opinions (including mine). However, I keep pulling myself up to remind myself it is predominantly circumstantial evidence and like it or not he is innocent until proven otherwise!

I may have missed this somewhere, so forgive me if that is the case:- does anyone know if GBC or ABC had drunk alcohol on the fateful evening? As we all know, many lose their inhibitions, but worse their self control with alcohol and this can (as we read on a daily basis) lead to escalating and out of control behaviour even as "forty-something's"...

Regardless, my theory is that an argument escalated into a life wrecking situation... Not a winner in sight! Devastating (to varying degrees) for everyone concerned.

 

[Obsessor]

In reply to Obby
I was so excited at being welcomed by one of my fave sleuths that I forgot to say what a great post that was. I couldn't have summed it up any better. Unfortunately ABC didn't have the chance to leave her miserable marriage and have a happy life, with her beautiful daughters. She wanted to make the marriage work, but little did she know that he wasn't interested in the same thing.

Agreed. (and thankyou for your compliments :blushing: ).
I have said before, one of the things I will take from this case is that there must be a line that is drawn where you say to yourself, I dont need this, I dont deserve this and I will not put up with this.
Allison was possibly getting close to that point, although we know she was still trying (by her diary entries) to save her incredibly sad marriage.
It would have been impossible for her to know just how bad he was, as he only would have let her know what he wanted her to, but, her gut must have been constantly churning with anxiety.
When we learn to listen to our gut and not make decisions based on expectations or dreams or public opinion, we will be better placed to act and make the right choices, whilst the opportunity to do so still exists. MOO

Finished raving now!!!!! sorry folks

 

[whitechapel]

I may have missed this somewhere, so forgive me if that is the case:- does anyone know if GBC or ABC had drunk alcohol on the fateful evening?

According to the autopsy report, alcohol was found in Allison's system.

This (to me) shows that she was in a routine which did not include going for a walk after consuming alcohol.

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

Wonder who

 

[just desserts]

According to the autopsy report, alcohol was found in Allison's system.

This (to me) shows that she was in a routine which did not include going for a walk after consuming alcohol.

Hi Whitechapel,

My understanding of the autopsy report was that alcohol consumption prior to death couldn't be determined, as it could be the result of decomposition. I did not know until reading the report that alcohol is produced in the body after death. It was very distressing reading the report

 

[whitechapel]

...It would have been impossible for her to know just how bad he was, as he only would have let her know what he wanted her to, but, her gut must have been constantly churning with anxiety...

Absolutely agree with this.

There was an incredibly bitter/sad/sarcastic/hurt message from Allison to GBC on the 18th April at 11.59am

(See Paragraph #94 from the Neil Robertson phone analysis)

"Having fun with your companion? Hope you're not putting any seats down in the back of snowy ???"

MOO/IMO This is a heartbreaking insight into how the trust had been destroyed by his selfish behaviour.:furious:

PS
Snowy = Prado?

 

[Curiousasacat]

Statement of Phil Broom summary -
26th April.
Had interview sometime in July 2005 . Met EBC,NBC,ABC. Interviewed by GBC. Two days later offered a job.
Commenced working for GBC in Sep 2005 at the Moggill Rd office at Kenmore.
During that first year he got to know the BC family well. Allison was not very active in the business. Around this time Allison gave birth to second daughter. S.

Phil and Gerard did personal training together on Tuesday mornings. He would shower and change at GBC and Allison's house. They were living at an address in Kenmore at this time.

It was normal not to see Allison at any work events.

Elaine told Phil Allison had depression. He was told that GBC had stopped working for Flight Centre to care for Allison as H<modsnip> was born around this time.

(Did we ever find out what happened with that dismissal case of GBC from Flight Centre?)

Gerard and Phil spent time playing golf together and discussing the business and personal matters.

April or May of 2006 whilst away in Cairns GBC referred to Allison as an angel and his girls were his angel girls.

Early 2008 Phil was made Senior Sales Agent and was given a personal set of licence plates - Settle.

In 2008 at a conference at Hamilton Island Jocelyn was "spotted" as an award winning agent.
In less than two months (around Sep 2008) the 3 were partners.
Around this time NBC and EBC stepped out of the business.

Gerard was not forthcoming with financial data, even when requested by JF and PB.

Phil gave a sum of money to a school friend of GBC.(PC) Either 25 or 30 thousand dollars. Phil was basically paying off Gerard's debt to this school friend. It was called payment for joing the business.

At the end of 2008 Ben B was employed by GBC and JF.

Business name changed from Baden-Clay Real Estate to Settle Westside.

2009 was a profitable year. Phil and Gerard discussed buying out JF due to her not performing.

Discussions same as JF regarding engagement party and how Allison was ignored.

Phil believed the relationship with TM broke up in Dec 2009. He became aware it was back on at the AREC 2010 conference in May. Toni flew from Sydney to be with GBC.
Also openly affectionate in front of Phil and his wife.

Jackie C was also at this conference, GBC and her had become close after attending a training course together. (JC has also been named as a mistress}.

GBC told Phil he was in love with TM and talked about a future with her. GBC mentioned he would need a bigger car as he would have his children and Toni's children.

In Aug 2010 Gerard and Phil were at another conference in Sydney. Phil told GBC he needed to "put an end to the duplicate world he was leading" GBC advised Phil that the relationship with ABC was over and he did not love her. They were not sleeping in the same bed and had not been intimate since E was born.
Phil was advised that GBC slept on the couch or in the spare bedroom.

Gerard never sold a property in 2010. It was their most profitable year.

GBC and Toni would meet regularly for breakfast and sit together during awards.
GBC would hug staff to try and mask his affection with TM.
GBC would attend Toni's place when her kids were in bed.
Partners owed backpay.

Jan 2011 business wiped out by floods. TBC

 

[BJsleuth]

Absolutely agree with this.

There was an incredibly bitter/sad/sarcastic/hurt message from Allison to GBC on the 18th April at 11.59am

(See Paragraph #94 from the Neil Robertson phone analysis)

"Having fun with your companion? Hope you're not putting any seats down in the back of snowy ???"

MOO/IMO This is a heartbreaking insight into how the trust had been destroyed by his selfish behaviour.:furious:

PS
Snowy = Prado?

I took Snowy to be the Prado.

 

[DrWatson]

Hi Whitechapel,

My understanding of the autopsy report was that alcohol consumption prior to death couldn't be determined, as it could be the result of decomposition. I did not know until reading the report that alcohol is produced in the body after death. It was very distressing reading the report

Yes, that's quite correct. Pre-mortem alcohol levels can be determined if the body is found soon after death, but after 11 days, plus decomposition, there is quite a deal of auto-fermentation occurring which makes the extrapolation of alcohol levels back to pre-mortem levels unreliable.