Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[Sleuthilicious]

My brother has done things for which I am unable to forgive him. I can't say my mother completely forgives him, but he lives in a boarding house and she still worries whether he is cold, eating well etc. She will always love him. I see an ugly middle-aged man, she sees her beautiful baby boy. She is a completely rational person, my Mum.
A good book to read is 'We Need to Talk About Kevin' by Lionel Shriver. The movie didn't do the book real justice.

I hope that made sense. I'm down with g a s t r o. Not nice.

That's awful Your poor family.

I have a father whom never ceases to amaze me. He is a classic narcissist and an incredibly good liar. The problem is he lies about EVERYTHING not just the things that matter, every detail of day to day stuff. YET I still am amazed when he does yet another horrible thing or tells another lie. I think sometimes, we have a desperation inside to love someone unconditionally, when they let you down over and over again you build an inner resilience and an element of denial.

 

[Maigret]

That's awful Your poor family.

I have a father whom never ceases to amaze me. He is a classic narcissist and an incredibly good liar. The problem is he lies about EVERYTHING not just the things that matter, every detail of day to day stuff. YET I still am amazed when he does yet another horrible thing or tells another lie. I think sometimes, we have a desperation inside to love someone unconditionally, when they let you down over and over again you build an inner resilience and an element of denial.

My mother is the same - I don't believe a word she says and neither does my sister - our children are coming to realise it too

It's horrid isn't it ?

 

[Inspector]

May I offer a response Inspector? This topic was on early morning radio with a Criminal QC(SC). He acknowledged that a lot of information had been released into the public domain. He stated that once it had been submitted to Court, unless subjected to a supression order as some information was in the Jill Meagher case, it is a public document. May be Alioop could expand.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ba...313-2fzhq.html
The Melbourne Magistrates Court registry released information after Deputy Chief Magistrate Felicity Broughton agreed to allow media access to the police brief of evidence against Adrian Ernest Bayley. Three of the photo books and the autopsy report were not allowed to be released because Ms Broughton said they were "very sensitive and very distressing".

Thanks for your reply. I think the other interesting thing to come to light in the JM case is how both her phone and AB's phone were traced on their entire journey. This gives me hope that QPS have a similar pattern for ABC's phone.

 

[ollijack]

Allioop is there a time limit on trials?
Or do they go for as long as needed?
THANKYOU. Xx

 

[Couldbe]

I believe that OW really thinks her brother is innocent of murder. I am uncertain about her belief that he is not guilty of anything but she gives the impression to me that unless she has a confession or some defining proof that can't be questioned she will never believe it, much like a mother who believes her children would never lie to her.
If she was pretending or lying I dont think she would have repeated the fell down a hole statement to the police.

In the initial statement by Olivia to the Media: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ry-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711 'yesterday broke down as she spoke on behalf of her brother, and detailed the strain and grief that the family has had to bear since Allison's disappearance a week ago' -
'Ms Walton said in the days leading up to her disappearance, Allison was her usual self.'
"I spoke to her the night before she disappeared on Thursday night and she seemed fine," she said.
"I saw her last week and she seemed normal, delightful - her normal, easygoing, beautiful-natured, thoughtful, kind-hearted self.
"As far as I know there have been no, there is no, we don't know anything about Allison's whereabouts."
"Allison suffers from depression, my thoughts are simply consumed with where she might be. I'm not interested in the speculation and rumours."

..... what conflicting statements appeared to have been uttered by Olivia! The inference seemed to be that Allison had taken off to somewhere.

GBC's Barrister has suggested that suicide was a possibility. At the Committal, Dr Hoskins also told the court he did not believe Mrs Baden-Clay had a fatal toxic level of an anti-depressant drug in her system, but he could not rule it out.

NOW yesterday .......Meanwhile, Baden-Clay's sister Olivia Walton today proclaimed her firm belief that he was innocent.

Outside the court, she appealed for police to investigate every avenue. (No talk of depression any more!)
So now what is the inference?
Following what she knows was discussed at the Committal, Olivia appears to have accepted the unlikelihood of suicide!!

Is this a step closer in the process of elimination by Olivia in establishing/revealing the strongest possibility of what happened to Allison!

 

[alioop]

Hi Alioop! Given your answer above, and the rapid dissemination of documents such as witness statements and autopsy documents via the Internet, is it likely GBC will have to have a judge only trial? I know there is a lot of pre-trial information being released in the JM case too. What are you thoughts on these high profile cases and the way lots of information is available to the public?

Any accused can apply for a judge only trial. Max Sica was granted one and has in the last week or so been acquitted by the judge of rape charges in relation to a child. Dr Patel was not granted one, which I was quite surprised about as I thought that if anyone qualified for a judge only trial, it would be him. A jury yesterday acquitted him. That he was acquitted demonstrates that the effect of social media, public interest, public inquiries etc doesn't mean a jury properly instructed can't do their job to make a decision on the evidence presented. They can and this decision I think is of historical significance because of that and commentators and researchers will use it to reject arguments that use of social media in public will prejudice trials.



In a judge only trial, the judge will give reasons for their decision, but a jury does not and is not allowed to discuss their decision afterwards.

 

[alioop]

Allioop is there a time limit on trials?
Or do they go for as long as needed?
THANKYOU. Xx

They go as long as they are needed Olli but they have to fit in with court availability so they may be heard in more than one part, weeks between those parts or even longer.

 

[Ippygal]

A news report I just found

Gerard Baden-Clay shied from public gaze in court

by:Mike Bruce From: The Courier-Mail March 12, 2013 12:00AM

In the gallery there was a mixture of justice rubber-neckers, students, media and supporters of Allison Baden-Clay, swelling to about 100 people by the lunch adjournment.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ic-gaze-in-court/story-e6freoof-1226595105748


Plus I read today that journalists can't report just the prosecution in court. That would be biased.

Thanks for sharing... I wonder why they blur GBC in some reports and not others? It's not like we haven't seen him a million times!

 

[Inspector]

Any accused can apply for a judge only trial. Max Sica was granted one and has in the last week or so been acquitted by the judge of rape charges in relation to a child. Dr Patel was not granted one, which I was quite surprised about as I thought that if anyone qualified for a judge only trial, it would be him. A jury yesterday acquitted him. That he was acquitted demonstrates that the effect of social media, public interest, public inquiries etc doesn't mean a jury properly instructed can't do their job to make a decision on the evidence presented. They can and this decision I think is of historical significance because of that and commentators and researchers will use it to reject arguments that use of social media in public will prejudice trials.



In a judge only trial, the judge will give reasons for their decision, but a jury does not and is not allowed to discuss their decision afterwards.

Thank you so much for your reply! I really admire all of your wonderful professional & personal input on WS, and I'm not alone in this admiration :blushing: you raise a very important point. If Patel has been tried by a jury despite all his media hype and the negative perception around his professionalism, then GbC is likely to get the same treatment. I'm wondering if his defence will ask potential jurors if they are members of websleuths or aussie criminals? :what:

 

[Liadan]

Well I think we have seen a bit of justice grinding its difficult way through stone this week and thanks to all the peeps at the courthouse for that!

 

[Liadan]

We have been talking a lot about Narcissim and GBC and he does fit the criteria---- but I wonder if the psychologist assessment includes any disorders experienced. That would be another big reason to not want to release this doco from RA. GBC could also be afflicted with depression or bipolar or something along those lines.

 

[linette]

We have been talking a lot about Narcissim and GBC and he does fit the criteria---- but I wonder if the psychologist assessment includes any disorders experienced. That would be another big reason to not want to release this doco from RA. GBC could also be afflicted with depression or bipolar or something along those lines.

True. Possible he was bipolar. Gee, hope he wasn't self medicating. That wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[enthralled]

True. Possible he was bipolar. Gee, hope he wasn't self medicating. That wouldn't be a good idea.

Very true, but we must remember his thinking wouldnt be rational.

 

[ollijack]

I'm wondering if he is excited and enjoying all the attention
He's always sought out attention.
In his own twisted way ?

 

[enthralled]

I'm wondering if he is excited and enjoying all the attention
He's always sought out attention.
In his own twisted way ?

I cannot imagine what goes on in his head. Just the way he has behaved from day one is just not "normal" thinking.

 

[enthralled]

I am just wondering, do you think he could be hiding away in the dock so that when this goes to trial they can request a judge only trial eg. "he cant think clearly to respond to questioning because he is so anxious because there are too many in the room, he is used to a being alone in his cell blah blah blah?"

 

[Liadan]

Just really postulating that we suspect that The RA (relationships Aust) counselling info had to do with the fact that they were recieving counselling about their marriage and GBC's infidelity and Allison's desire to stay married but what if they had to in turn, speak of their own private matters which if GBC had indeed done would be hideous for the Baden-Clay family to re-hash over the public domain. (Allisons diary has already been put into the public arena with court doco that you can purchase but .....) If the RA counsellor had listed any complexes or issues that GBC had to overcome or was experiencing and that was revealed to the public via this hearing the poor guy facing his parents with these shortcomings - I do feel sorry for him facing them - his least concern would be worrying about the public.

 

[enthralled]

Just really postulating that we suspect that The RA (relationships Aust) counselling info had to do with the fact that they were recieving counselling about their marriage and GBC's infidelity and Allison's desire to stay married but what if they had to in turn, speak of their own private matters which if GBC had indeed done would be hideous for the Baden-Clay family to re-hash over the public domain. (Allisons diary has already been put into the public arena with court doco that you can purchase but .....) If the RA counsellor had listed any complexes or issues that GBC had to overcome or was experiencing and that was revealed to the public via this hearing the poor guy facing his parents with these shortcomings - I do feel sorry for him facing them - his least concern would be worrying about the public.

Good point Laidan. Heaven forbid anymore "dirty little secrets" getting out to tarnish the family name.

 

[Couldbe]

Link: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...eam-in-the-night/story-e6freoof-1226596271477
But Mr Broom said while on a business trip to Sydney in 2010, Baden-Clay told him of future plans he had with Ms McHugh.
''There was a trip to Sydney where we talked about cars and the need for a bigger car for his three girls and her two boys,'' he said.

So did GBC mean that he, TM and all five children would be living together? Where was Allison going to be!

 

[linette]

Link: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...eam-in-the-night/story-e6freoof-1226596271477
But Mr Broom said while on a business trip to Sydney in 2010, Baden-Clay told him of future plans he had with Ms McHugh.
''There was a trip to Sydney where we talked about cars and the need for a bigger car for his three girls and her two boys,'' he said.

So did GBC mean that he, TM and all five children would be living together? Where was Allison going to be!

I took it to mean when he had access to his girls he would need the bigger car to fit the whole'new' family in. He could havebeen thinking shared care where they have them one week on one week off, or having weekend visitation. That's just how i took it, who knows what he was thinking?