Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #44

[bearbear]

I've been thinking about OW's statement the last few days, and tried to consider other reasons for Allison's disappearance and death (just playing devil's advocate). I really am stumped at what could possibly be presented at the trial (or before) that would remove the guilt from GBC. Here's what I've come up with so far:

-Allison committed suicide - can pretty much rule this out, unless there's evidence we haven't seen or heard yet (doubtful). For this to even be plausible, her car would have to have been left at the bridge, but even then, the fall from the bridge doesn't seem to be lethal. And I can't see someone who doesn't walk often been able to walk that distance, in darkness, emotionally upset enough to want to take her own life. And the most important lack of evidence IMO is no note for her family/friends was left.

-Another family member: I just don't see GBC being willing enough to take the fall for someone else. I guess there's the possibility that someone in the family is holding something over him (blackmail), but even then, it would have to be a very dark and disturbing secret to outweigh possibly spending life in jail.

-A 3rd party known to Allison/GBC: Who would want to hurt Allison? Normally in these high profile cases, any 'living a secret life' rumours tend to come out. From what we've read, there is nothing to suggest Allison was anything but what has already been presented - a loving mother, a wife trying to fix her marriage, a much loved daughter, and committed friend. Did GBC have any enemies - well probably. Maybe a jilted husband of one of his affairs (were there other women he has 'dated' over the years that the police/public are unaware of?), bad business dealings, or over some other grievance. But the stars would have to align for one of these people that GBC 'did over' to also be capable and willing to kill another person (Allison). Although there are weirdos and murderers in the world, they really aren't that common.

-An unknown third person: what's the possibility that someone who is unknown to the family took Allison's life? The questions that come up here are - why? It would have to be a random attack, or someone who has targeted her. But why? opportunity? Although GBC said Allison went for a walk, others who knew her said she wasn't a regular walker. Even if GBC was telling the truth, and she walked a few times a week, it didn't sound like she walked the same mornings. So it would suggest the person either wasn't stalking her, or if he/she was, they would have to be very very very patient and sit and wait for an opportunity. Also, there has been no mention of a break-in at Allison's house that night/morning, so it rules out that someone entered their house and took her. If the screams heard that night were Allison been abducted, I just can't imagine GBC sleeping through that, even if a heavy sleeper. There's heavy sleepers, but IMO, in that area where they lived, with sound travelling and been amplified, GBC would have to have been comotose to not hear the screams.

-GBC killed Allison in self defense: this has been something I've thought about, not because I believe it for a second, but because I wonder if the defense will try this angle. That Allison attacked him, GBC was too embarrassed to say what really caused the injuries to his body (Allison), and that he killed her by accident trying to protect himself. This would be plausible IF there was prior documented evidence from medical practitioners and people who knew them that suggested spousal violence. As far as we know, there is nothing of the sort available to the defense. And quite often when someone is defending themselves, wounds often appear on certain parts of their body, like forearms.

Anyway, that was just some of my thoughts on why OW believes there is another version of the truth floating around. Just to be clear, I don't believe any of these make sense. I believe GBC took Allison's life. But it is interesting trying to second guess the defense.

or nbc was there and in trying to break up the physical fight between allison and gbc, accidentally killed her?

 

[bearbear]

i remember reading gbc was quite computer tech savvy, he helped allison with some computer problem or installation while they were at flight centre i think?
<modsnip>

 

[Inspector]

OW doesnt have any idea what otherwise could have happened to Allison- she is merely hoping that by committing to Gerards innocence unwaiveringly, and praying like f*c£ every day and night in the meantime, that an alternative reason is going to fall from the sky miraculously and present itself to the police, or the family, or his legal team.
Thats my opinion anyhow.

Gerards legal team, on the other hand, will be merely trying to discredit the evidence, and show reasons why he couldnt have done it. They're probably looking a bit more critically at the evidence than Olivia and are probably not relying on blind faith and prayer to help him through.

:goodpost:

 

[linette]

I've been thinking that perhaps an argument started and Allison just thought she'd had enough and threatened to leave with the kids. This could be all it took that night to push GBC over the top... could explain why she had shoes on when she wasn't going anywhere.

 

[Maigret]

Does anyone know what the link may be between GBC and Ssgt Curtis? From the recorded interview transcript, though it's unclear, it seems like he says "I know you Narelle" when she first arrives and then later he says "You used my phone at the thing. You guys don't get issued with them which is ridiculous." I am not suggesting anything untoward between them, just curious.

Just re- read that interview and GBC states that Allison was going to meet Kate at the office at 8 - why would she need to leave by 7 - was the office an hour away ( obviously I am not a local ). ??

 

[linette]

Regarding my post above... if Allison finally decided she'd had enough of the affairs etc {after being told about TM attending the conference the next day} and finally decided to leave...this could be a reason why one of GBC's family may have turned up and may have got involved in the argument.
In that case he could have called his sister or one of his parents over. We don't know how the girls got home, do we? Maybe they were in the middle of an argument when one of the BC's dropped the girls home? I did have some other thought but it has temporarily left my brain. Duh!

 

[spratsmum]

Was she in Brisbane? I thought she was at her parent's house with her children on the 19 April evening, and was an early arrival at GBC's house on 20April to take the girls to school.

Yes she was at her parents house at The Gap in Brisbane, not Brisbane, a suburb of the city of Brisbane

 

[BJsleuth]

Just re- read that interview and GBC states that Allison was going to meet Kate at the office at 8 - why would she need to leave by 7 - was the office an hour away ( obviously I am not a local ). ??

I'd wondered that too. Was it the kind of seminar where you pay to go and was it actually paid for? Maybe they argued over that? Nobody actually went in the end....

 

[BJsleuth]

I read in one of the police statements that there was a dispute at one of the C21 rental properties which borders Kholo Creek bridge and the police were involved. That could be it.

Ahh yes. I forgot that. Thanks.

 

[Amee]

i remember reading gbc was quite computer tech savvy, he helped allison with some computer problem or installation while they were at flight centre i think?
<modsnip>

He offered to fix her computer and she sheepishly admitted to having lots of computer problems.

http://www.qt.com.au/news/happy-and-successful-a-portrait-of-allison/1367927/

it was in msm a long time ago about GBC helping Allison with her pc <modsnip>

 

[Obsessor]

I am happy to buy docs. Remind me how and I will get to it.
And where are you seeing the text messages?

Poss, Alioops post no.111 tells how to go about it, but we should just check that no-one else has done it in the last few days, as there was discussion.
I'm also happy to, so if we team up we can share costs or buy different sets at least. I'd just prefer to wait until we hear from anyone else first.

 

[BJsleuth]

)

Regarding my post above... if Allison finally decided she'd had enough of the affairs etc {after being told about TM attending the conference the next day} and finally decided to leave...this could be a reason why one of GBC's family may have turned up and may have got involved in the argument.
In that case he could have called his sister or one of his parents over. We don't know how the girls got home, do we? Maybe they were in the middle of an argument when one of the BC's dropped the girls home? I did have some other thought but it has temporarily left my brain. Duh!

Had A found out G had been seeing TM again or found out about one of the others. Is that why the reference to being sick sort of and it not going away? Goes home, G tells her he was with his sister. Allison phones her and finds out he's lying. An argument develops then escalates?

 

[emirates1957]

Poss, Alioops post no.111 tells how to go about it, but we should just check that no-one else has done it in the last few days, as there was discussion.
I'm also happy to, so if we team up we can share costs or buy different sets at least. I'd just prefer to wait until we hear from anyone else first.

I am more than happy to chip in and share documentation costs.

 

[Obsessor]

)

Had A found out G had been seeing TM again or found out about one of the others. Is that why the reference to being sick sort of and it not going away? Goes home, G tells her he was with his sister. Allison phones her and finds out he's lying. An argument develops then escalates?

Good thought, but I dont think she'd be her usual happy self, as Olivia descibed her, if this was the case.

 

[SandyGG]

Does anyone know what the link may be between GBC and Ssgt Curtis? From the recorded interview transcript, though it's unclear, it seems like he says "I know you Narelle" when she first arrives and then later he says "You used my phone at the thing. You guys don't get issued with them which is ridiculous." I am not suggesting anything untoward between them, just curious.

I read somewhere that one of the officers is involved with the local Neighbourhood Watch meetings and that G had met them there and also incidentally attended the car accident he had. Not the later one at Indro but the other smashup before Allison was murdered. Also I think he tried to call that copper that morning to advise him as to what to do.

If it was fully premeditated he sure had no idea what to do after the fact. However, perhaps nothing went to plan, for example, Allison fighting him tooth and nail, brave woman.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Still thinking about how gbc had help if theres no record of calls etc.

A. He didn't do it
B. he did do it but had no help
C. Walkie talkies or similar
D. It was premeditated and arranged.

That last one makes me feel very uneasy.

 

[Obsessor]

Originally Posted by BJsleuth
Does anyone know what the link may be between GBC and Ssgt Curtis? From the recorded interview transcript, though it's unclear, it seems like he says "I know you Narelle" when she first arrives and then later he says "You used my phone at the thing. You guys don't get issued with them which is ridiculous." I am not suggesting anything untoward between them, just curious.



Isnt that just a classic example of the creep that he is to slimyly try to align himself with the police officer so as to put himself into the category of an ok bloke in her eyes.
He is so smarmy, he drops in that he let her use his phone, almost like, "we're mates, you would remember me. Look, by the way, my wifes missing, but, you know, well, I'll be right, this mornings been a bit busy, but if you could just make a note that I've reported it then we'll just get back to business, hey."

 

[Aunty]

I've been thinking about OW's statement the last few days, and tried to consider other reasons for Allison's disappearance and death (just playing devil's advocate). I really am stumped at what could possibly be presented at the trial (or before) that would remove the guilt from GBC. Here's what I've come up with so far:

-Allison committed suicide - can pretty much rule this out, unless there's evidence we haven't seen or heard yet (doubtful). For this to even be plausible, her car would have to have been left at the bridge, but even then, the fall from the bridge doesn't seem to be lethal. And I can't see someone who doesn't walk often been able to walk that distance, in darkness, emotionally upset enough to want to take her own life. And the most important lack of evidence IMO is no note for her family/friends was left.

-Another family member: I just don't see GBC being willing enough to take the fall for someone else. I guess there's the possibility that someone in the family is holding something over him (blackmail), but even then, it would have to be a very dark and disturbing secret to outweigh possibly spending life in jail.

-A 3rd party known to Allison/GBC: Who would want to hurt Allison? Normally in these high profile cases, any 'living a secret life' rumours tend to come out. From what we've read, there is nothing to suggest Allison was anything but what has already been presented - a loving mother, a wife trying to fix her marriage, a much loved daughter, and committed friend. Did GBC have any enemies - well probably. Maybe a jilted husband of one of his affairs (were there other women he has 'dated' over the years that the police/public are unaware of?), bad business dealings, or over some other grievance. But the stars would have to align for one of these people that GBC 'did over' to also be capable and willing to kill another person (Allison). Although there are weirdos and murderers in the world, they really aren't that common.

-An unknown third person: what's the possibility that someone who is unknown to the family took Allison's life? The questions that come up here are - why? It would have to be a random attack, or someone who has targeted her. But why? opportunity? Although GBC said Allison went for a walk, others who knew her said she wasn't a regular walker. Even if GBC was telling the truth, and she walked a few times a week, it didn't sound like she walked the same mornings. So it would suggest the person either wasn't stalking her, or if he/she was, they would have to be very very very patient and sit and wait for an opportunity. Also, there has been no mention of a break-in at Allison's house that night/morning, so it rules out that someone entered their house and took her. If the screams heard that night were Allison been abducted, I just can't imagine GBC sleeping through that, even if a heavy sleeper. There's heavy sleepers, but IMO, in that area where they lived, with sound travelling and been amplified, GBC would have to have been comotose to not hear the screams.

-GBC killed Allison in self defense: this has been something I've thought about, not because I believe it for a second, but because I wonder if the defense will try this angle. That Allison attacked him, GBC was too embarrassed to say what really caused the injuries to his body (Allison), and that he killed her by accident trying to protect himself. This would be plausible IF there was prior documented evidence from medical practitioners and people who knew them that suggested spousal violence. As far as we know, there is nothing of the sort available to the defense. And quite often when someone is defending themselves, wounds often appear on certain parts of their body, like forearms.

Anyway, that was just some of my thoughts on why OW believes there is another version of the truth floating around. Just to be clear, I don't believe any of these make sense. I believe GBC took Allison's life. But it is interesting trying to second guess the defense.

Your sleuthing is amazing. Wow wow wow .
I hope I get to meet you one day.
We walk united and our hearts are rejoicing in all that is Allison and all that she stood for. :seeya:

 

[BJsleuth]

Thanks Maigret for finding the text messages. I knew I'd seen it in there, I looked but couldn't find it again.

 

[BJsleuth]

Still thinking about how gbc had help if theres no record of calls etc.

A. He didn't do it
B. he did do it but had no help
C. Walkie talkies or similar
D. It was premeditated and arranged.

That last one makes me feel very uneasy.

If it was a landline local call, are they itemized on the bill? Mine aren't.