Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #44

[Amee]

However he provided a rare insight into his family life in November 2008, when he recounted his week as a sole parent, while his wife enjoyed a rare retreat from the demands of motherhood to celebrate her 40th birthday.
"I thought that I was pretty in tune with the day-to-day routine, but I can honestly say that this week has given me a real insight into the challenges of managing a family.

"Waking up, getting dressed, having breakfast, making lunches, getting to school, collecting from school, bath, cook dinner, eat dinner, homework, teeth, bed! And that doesn't include any extracurricular activities like ballet, swimming and music!

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ed-murderer-20120615-20fa5.html#ixzz2OJJRQdBS

 

[Amee]

WHO was Allison Baden-Clay? She was the wall print of Van Gogh's Sunflowers that hangs over her living room.

She was the framed pictures of family and friends cluttering her bookshelf. She was the mother by a bedside lamp softly singing Away in a Manger to send her three daughters off to sleep.

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...e-girl-next-door/story-e6frfkvr-1226347315119

 

[Aunty]

I am sorry to bring up TM again, but I did up an excel spreadsheet (yrs at the top and months along the side. I entered in TMs dates from her 1st statement and then did the same with her other statements. I'm trying to see if she is hiding anything and why ?

Whilst I did this, I saw that TM was not telling the truth about the date the affair started and wondered why she needed to hide the true date.
TM named August as the date that She and GBCs affair started.
She is consistent with naming this Month. ( This date would be one that she holds as sacred and as each month passed, then years passed, she would also know exactly how long their love had endured. It is common, in a love affair, for the more romantic obsessed person, that being TM here, to know exactly how many yrs, months,even weeks, that define their affair.
But sometimes a date can be chosen, and used to hide the truth. And in her case I think she chose this date of August, maybe even told her defacto this date, to hide the fact that the affair was happening right under everyone's noses. I believe TM still uses this month of August ( when the affair started) in her statements, because if she tells the truth and gives the true date, it will prove that she has lied and maintained a lie for many years and worst still, the true date of the affair starting , would reveal, that, TM and GBC had their 3 yr affair anniversary in the Month that Allison was murdered. Could it have also been the same date in April?

TM says that on the 4th October 2011, she losses her lover and the affair that lasted 2&1/2 years.
That period of time for her , i expect, is time stamped in her head and heart. I believe we can use this time period as the truth.
Remember she was unemployed and very upset about this breakup. She knew exactly how much time and energy she used and lost. The period of time defines their love. She has wept, I'm sure saying this over and over to herself. So she is bold in having it announced in her statements and to the world that she owned that time. He was hers. On that date , Allison made time stand still and took from her , her hopes and dreams and her lover.
Allison was in control, and TM had lost her dreams and lover.

So, 2 1/2 years , an exact number, from the date she was shattered on , Oct 2011 , when she thought the affair was over, and she lost GBC and her job, you will see that the affair really started in April 2008 ....... and 4 years later, on TMs 4 th year anniversary date perhaps, Allison is murdered.
How convenient for a woman who has waited 4 long yrs for GBC to leave Allison and was told by GBC that she would need to wait till the end of 2012 to be together. Possibly to be kept waiting for 5 years.
In TMs statements is is clear that she made huge sacrifices whilst waiting 4 yrs and she was looking at another year before her dream might come true. By this 4 th anniversary, TM would have been getting extremely angry at all the time she had lost. Now 42 and hating her job, and living in the spare bedroom in her flat, whilst her boys shared the main bedroom. The more I read , the more I can see how frustrated TM was. And what that must have done to her. Extreme sadness anger come to mind. And she hated her job. The list goes on. Food for thought.

 

[frustrated detective]

It occurred to me that there are men who are so controlling that they like to be in charge of how their wives dress and even choose the clothes ...

These sort of men would know all about clothing brands and other details if questioned.

 

[KG1]

I have discovered something very important...
The autopsy report says that Allison was missing , one whole fingernail !!!
on her right hand.
She must have lost it scratching GBC ,and fighting for her life.
This evidence is what will put him away.
Remember I saw it first
Page 272 of autopsy report
All of the fingernails of her right hand are detached, however , only 4 are identified within the sleeve of the jumper.

If whole fingernail was lost during fight for life, then it would bleed before death occurred. Could a finger tip of a rubber glove been placed over the fingertip damaged to avoid blood drop/smear evidence being left? Such as in the rear of a Captiva?

 

[KG1]

Fellow Websleuths, does anybody know why Olivia was in Brisbane when Allison was killed.?

Was she in Brisbane? I thought she was at her parent's house with her children on the 19 April evening, and was an early arrival at GBC's house on 20April to take the girls to school.

 

[alioop]

For local web sleuthers who live in the Brookfield area, there will be a memorial 'walk of grief' for Allison Baden-Clay on 20th April starting at 4.00am in the morning from Kholo bridge to Allison's house. A Brookfield local has offered parking on his property. Check local area for details.

Is this for real? That's a long walk. Perhaps it's someone's way of a public statement that it is way too far for Allison to have walked to Kholo herself, which of course it is.

 

[KG1]

I joined WS recently, but lurked here from the time Allison went missing.

I've noticed how respectful and courteous all members are to each other, what a pleasure it is to come in to read and follow all you sleuths in action.

Thanks!

Welcome toe, glad you have joined us. Yes it is a very respectful site and also a very addictive site.

 

[alioop]

Was she in Brisbane? I thought she was at her parent's house with her children on the 19 April evening, and was an early arrival at GBC's house on 20April to take the girls to school.

Hi KG, yes Olivia and her children were in Brisbane at the time, though we don't know why. We presume it was just a holiday. When your kids don't got to school, school holidays are irrelevant so maybe they thought a post Easter holiday was a good time.

 

[Liadan]

When Constable Ash asked OW what the children had been told that morning OW said..
shortly after 6am GBC told them mummy had gone for a walk and probably fell down a hole and would not be back. OW then asked "is that ok"

"The defendant told his sister Olivia Walton of the deceased's walking route at about 6:30am on 20 April 2012."

Taken from the charge sheet.

I know we have gone over this ad nauseum, but it is insane to think he was worried about Allison at 6:30am! Why on earth would his sister be there and why would he be going over Allison's walking route at 6:30am? Wayyyyy too early for anyone to be concerned IMO.

Thinking - my take is that we are supposed to believe that the possibility is that Allison went walking that night and then he adds the morning walk routine in just to make sure she was definitely not in the house the whole time he was actually home - he is trying to put the maximum distance between him and the situation - Allison really could have dissappeared at 10 pm and sometimes she does walk in the morning. GBC is trying to cover all bases and muddy the timeframe. This is why he is worried because he 'really has no idea' (poor him) of when his wife left. He is only giving the police more scope in the time frame when he says she sometimes walks in the morning.

Also just from the previous pages - that hairdresser was a free appt that night no cost to Allison she walked out without handing any $ over.

 

[Liadan]

I am sorry to bring up TM again, but I did up an excel spreadsheet (yrs at the top and months along the side. I entered in TMs dates from her 1st statement and then did the same with her other statements. I'm trying to see if she is hiding anything and why ?

Whilst I did this, I saw that TM was not telling the truth about the date the affair started and wondered why she needed to hide the true date.
TM named August as the date that She and GBCs affair started.
She is consistent with naming this Month. ( This date would be one that she holds as sacred and as each month passed, then years passed, she would also know exactly how long their love had endured. It is common, in a love affair, for the more romantic obsessed person, that being TM here, to know exactly how many yrs, months,even weeks, that define their affair.
But sometimes a date can be chosen, and used to hide the truth. And in her case I think she chose this date of August, maybe even told her defacto this date, to hide the fact that the affair was happening right under everyone's noses. I believe TM still uses this month of August ( when the affair started) in her statements, because if she tells the truth and gives the true date, it will prove that she has lied and maintained a lie for many years and worst still, the true date of the affair starting , would reveal, that, TM and GBC had their 3 yr affair anniversary in the Month that Allison was murdered. Could it have also been the same date in April?

TM says that on the 4th October 2011, she losses her lover and the affair that lasted 2&1/2 years.
That period of time for her , i expect, is time stamped in her head and heart. I believe we can use this time period as the truth.
Remember she was unemployed and very upset about this breakup. She knew exactly how much time and energy she used and lost. The period of time defines their love. She has wept, I'm sure saying this over and over to herself. So she is bold in having it announced in her statements and to the world that she owned that time. He was hers. On that date , Allison made time stand still and took from her , her hopes and dreams and her lover.
Allison was in control, and TM had lost her dreams and lover.

So, 2 1/2 years , an exact number, from the date she was shattered on , Oct 2011 , when she thought the affair was over, and she lost GBC and her job, you will see that the affair really started in April 2008 ....... and 4 years later, on TMs 4 th year anniversary date perhaps, Allison is murdered.
How convenient for a woman who has waited 4 long yrs for GBC to leave Allison and was told by GBC that she would need to wait till the end of 2012 to be together. Possibly to be kept waiting for 5 years.
In TMs statements is is clear that she made huge sacrifices whilst waiting 4 yrs and she was looking at another year before her dream might come true. By this 4 th anniversary, TM would have been getting extremely angry at all the time she had lost. Now 42 and hating her job, and living in the spare bedroom in her flat, whilst her boys shared the main bedroom. The more I read , the more I can see how frustrated TM was. And what that must have done to her. Extreme sadness anger come to mind. And she hated her job. The list goes on. Food for thought.

Aunty at the committal hearing Danny Boyle asked her to update the end date of her relationship with GBC (the one before they rekindled). She changed that to the date that she signed the resignation at C21 so 14th September 2011. Probably need to add that as a correction note to her statements. Maybe in a post on the thread.

 

[KG1]

However he provided a rare insight into his family life in November 2008, when he recounted his week as a sole parent, while his wife enjoyed a rare retreat from the demands of motherhood to celebrate her 40th birthday.
"I thought that I was pretty in tune with the day-to-day routine, but I can honestly say that this week has given me a real insight into the challenges of managing a family.

"Waking up, getting dressed, having breakfast, making lunches, getting to school, collecting from school, bath, cook dinner, eat dinner, homework, teeth, bed! And that doesn't include any extracurricular activities like ballet, swimming and music!

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ed-murderer-20120615-20fa5.html#ixzz2OJJRQdBS

He doesn't mention s, s and s as he did in his police statement. :what:

 

[Liadan]

He doesn't mention s, s and s as he did in his police statement. :what:

Sometimes I wish you could hit a 'smile' button as well as the thanks button KG1! Nice pickup :laugh:

 

[toe]

There is so much about that morning that is still a mystery - the girls and Olivia, NBC, his quick actions and his seeming lack of emotion. I must say though in the photos the next day he doesn;t like as if he has lost much sleep or is too distraught. It seems so simple, he must be guilty, so why did it take the police so long to arrest him, and why haven't they arrested anyone else, someone else has to have been involved at least after Allison's murder.

My guess is, they had him under very tight surveillance, you know the old saying "give them enough rope" ..They were collecting evidence.

 

[ozazure]

Ozazure, did you ever see first-hand how Allison Baden-Clay kept house when she was alive? Did you ever step into her house? Is your speculation drawn from the only photos of the inside of that house by the real estate company trying to re-rent it? Those comments seem disparaging and Allison is not here to defend herself, so IMO there are unjustified. We can only go on MSM articles and Court statements from family and friends which state that those 3 little girls were always well cared for and that is important.

Your comment posted above: "Allison's attempts to monitor GBC almost futile...". How do you know this? GBC's comments about the phone app is that your source? IMO we don't know enough about this yet, we only have MSM and the Court statements available to sleuth from. For all we know GBC could have been referring to someone else, possibly one his mistresses even, say one who was particularly obsessed with him. Its also possible that he may have been a little paranoid or wanting to cover his tracks, so nobody would be able to 'follow' him. It appears that he had compartmentalised his activities; he wanted to be in control of them IMHO. Allegedly, he was part of a surveillance company (cited by Makara in earlier threads) and would most likely know more about this than the general population. But to attribute those comments to Allison, as if they are fact, is unjustified IMO.

I am not disparaging Allison for monitoring her husband after he had been found to be unfaithful. Personally I think she would have been a real doormat if she had NOT. I think most counsellors advise that the cheating partner has to expect being checked up upon until trust rebuilds and this isn't a fast process. But even if it is what has to happen, it is a deviance from the trust in an unbroken relationship, and would be difficult to do so when his job requires him to be at different locations and is not strictly a 9 to 5 job. Recently I found out about an affair between a school mum's husband and her best friend, and my first response was "who even has time for that?" ... as soon as it was out of my mouth I realised that I was being naive... just because my childfree time is spent doing stuff like housework, shopping, the occasional "me time" activity, I have ample time to conduct an affair. Similarly my partner doesn't have a strict home time - he could easily carve out 2 hours here and there every week or so without me twigging simply from his comings and goings. Once you have that fear every opportunity they have will drag out those feelings. We saw that in her text message to him about "snowy".

Secondly, I don't think it is having a go at Allison to say her house was not fancy. We could all see that from the real estate photos and I find it an interesting contrast given what business they were in and the successful image he seemed to want to cultivate.

Lastly, this isn't the cult of Allison Baden-Clay. She doesn't have to be an exemplary woman who would never wear the clothes she was found in as some are suggesting, or be a perfect mother, or was never a disappointment to her spouse etc ... she was a real person, most of whom are loveable and deserving of admiration and respect for getting on with the business of raising a family and participating in the community via work, schools, dance studios etc. Sorry if my reflections on what I read don't fit the narrative you have built up about Allison. No one is going to appear 100% polished with their personal life exposed publicly. I don't judge her for it. I am interested however.

 

[CaseClosed]

I am sorry to bring up TM again, but I did up an excel spreadsheet (yrs at the top and months along the side. I entered in TMs dates from her 1st statement and then did the same with her other statements. I'm trying to see if she is hiding anything and why ?

Whilst I did this, I saw that TM was not telling the truth about the date the affair started and wondered why she needed to hide the true date.
TM named August as the date that She and GBCs affair started.
She is consistent with naming this Month. ( This date would be one that she holds as sacred and as each month passed, then years passed, she would also know exactly how long their love had endured. It is common, in a love affair, for the more romantic obsessed person, that being TM here, to know exactly how many yrs, months,even weeks, that define their affair.
But sometimes a date can be chosen, and used to hide the truth. And in her case I think she chose this date of August, maybe even told her defacto this date, to hide the fact that the affair was happening right under everyone's noses. I believe TM still uses this month of August ( when the affair started) in her statements, because if she tells the truth and gives the true date, it will prove that she has lied and maintained a lie for many years and worst still, the true date of the affair starting , would reveal, that, TM and GBC had their 3 yr affair anniversary in the Month that Allison was murdered. Could it have also been the same date in April?

TM says that on the 4th October 2011, she losses her lover and the affair that lasted 2&1/2 years.
That period of time for her , i expect, is time stamped in her head and heart. I believe we can use this time period as the truth.
Remember she was unemployed and very upset about this breakup. She knew exactly how much time and energy she used and lost. The period of time defines their love. She has wept, I'm sure saying this over and over to herself. So she is bold in having it announced in her statements and to the world that she owned that time. He was hers. On that date , Allison made time stand still and took from her , her hopes and dreams and her lover.
Allison was in control, and TM had lost her dreams and lover.

So, 2 1/2 years , an exact number, from the date she was shattered on , Oct 2011 , when she thought the affair was over, and she lost GBC and her job, you will see that the affair really started in April 2008 ....... and 4 years later, on TMs 4 th year anniversary date perhaps, Allison is murdered.
How convenient for a woman who has waited 4 long yrs for GBC to leave Allison and was told by GBC that she would need to wait till the end of 2012 to be together. Possibly to be kept waiting for 5 years.
In TMs statements is is clear that she made huge sacrifices whilst waiting 4 yrs and she was looking at another year before her dream might come true. By this 4 th anniversary, TM would have been getting extremely angry at all the time she had lost. Now 42 and hating her job, and living in the spare bedroom in her flat, whilst her boys shared the main bedroom. The more I read , the more I can see how frustrated TM was. And what that must have done to her. Extreme sadness anger come to mind. And she hated her job. The list goes on. Food for thought.

Interesting! I do remember reading in one of her statements, that she couldn't exactly remember when the affair really started but that her and GBC had agreed on a date they both felt was when the affair was totally established (or some words to that effect).

 

[Fuskier]

I am not disparaging Allison for monitoring her husband after he had been found to be unfaithful. Personally I think she would have been a real doormat if she had NOT. I think most counsellors advise that the cheating partner has to expect being checked up upon until trust rebuilds and this isn't a fast process. But even if it is what has to happen, it is a deviance from the trust in an unbroken relationship, and would be difficult to do so when his job requires him to be at different locations and is not strictly a 9 to 5 job. Recently I found out about an affair between a school mum's husband and her best friend, and my first response was "who even has time for that?" ... as soon as it was out of my mouth I realised that I was being naive... just because my childfree time is spent doing stuff like housework, shopping, the occasional "me time" activity, I have ample time to conduct an affair. Similarly my partner doesn't have a strict home time - he could easily carve out 2 hours here and there every week or so without me twigging simply from his comings and goings. Once you have that fear every opportunity they have will drag out those feelings. We saw that in her text message to him about "snowy".

Secondly, I don't think it is having a go at Allison to say her house was not fancy. We could all see that from the real estate photos and I find it an interesting contrast given what business they were in and the successful image he seemed to want to cultivate.

Lastly, this isn't the cult of Allison Baden-Clay. She doesn't have to be an exemplary woman who would never wear the clothes she was found in as some are suggesting, or be a perfect mother, or was never a disappointment to her spouse etc ... she was a real person, most of whom are loveable and deserving of admiration and respect for getting on with the business of raising a family and participating in the community via work, schools, dance studios etc. Sorry if my reflections on what I read don't fit the narrative you have built up about Allison. No one is going to appear 100% polished with their personal life exposed publicly. I don't judge her for it. I am interested however.

I respectfully disagree with the comments in your original post. I stand by my comments made in Post No: #500.

 

[CaseClosed]

Is this for real? That's a long walk. Perhaps it's someone's way of a public statement that it is way too far for Allison to have walked to Kholo herself, which of course it is.

My guess is this walk will take 3 - 4 hrs?

 

[CaseClosed]

"The defendant told his sister Olivia Walton of the deceased's walking route at about 6:30am on 20 April 2012."

Taken from the charge sheet.

I know we have gone over this ad nauseum, but it is insane to think he was worried about Allison at 6:30am! Why on earth would his sister be there and why would he be going over Allison's walking route at 6:30am? Wayyyyy too early for anyone to be concerned IMO.

I am so much looking forward to the Prosecution presenting a detailed timeline for that evening/morning!! Yes, WAYYY too early to be concerned! These little details are the ones that are going to bring him down IMO.

 

[Strangeworld]

Just on the clothing issue, I think most unlikely that they were clothes belonging to anyone other than Allison. I agree with a lot of the posters that there are times looser clothing is preferred. Or something bought turns out to be slightly different than expected. Or that they were on sale, looked reasonably OK held up in front of you and who cares?
In the first interview GBC was asked what Al was wearing and said, of the pants "thry're like three-quarter length things. ".... "they're, her daggy old..."
What tickled me was that he then said "she bought some new Lorna Jane ones in black"..."But they're here"
I must be the queen of dag then coz I wouldn't know Lorna Jane if she bit me. How did he? Hardly relevant I expect unless they argued over the cost.
The autopsy described A as being 170cm tall (that's around 5ft 7 inches) and weight 72 kilos. But I am not sure if that was the (excuse me) weight of the body, or if they got that from her medical records. If the latter, then 72k is slightly chunky, not a size 12, and GBC said she was occasionally doing these walks to lose a little weight.
The only other thing I'd add is that, I might bung on some oversized daggy gear at home to do whatever, or even stay in for bed, but I wouldn't stay in the same gear and then get up and go for a walk in the morning, I'd have a shower even if it meant having another one when I got home?

BBM - I sort of disagree. I am a few centimetres taller than Allison was, and a few kilos less than her. I wear 10-12's, but in 'house clothes', I might go up a size if they are a really small make, or if they are designed to be fitted and I want a loose fit. I definitely don't imagine Allison as 'chunky'. It all depends on where her weight was distributed in her body, but I would say she would have been a little curvy, but certainly not what I would call overweight.

It also depends on what body type she was - I'm more athletic build (though not athletic in activity - he he - bit too lazy for that!). Maybe she was more pear or apple shaped.