Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Groundedgirl]

There has to be a reason why Gerard decides to begin again with Toni in December..

As soon as I wrote that I realised that any reasoning Gerard has is out of my capability of grasping but putting that to one side....

Toni says she rang, she emailed , she rang and rang and rang, she wanted an explanation, she didnt understand why, why did it end, why was she fired, why why.qhy is Allison working there, why, .

So in December, Gerard meets her, they 'confirm ' their love.. whatever that means, he makes promises, he paints a picture of hope and solution, they make certain conditions, that is, no sex, excuse me , there is the promise, though.

So what made Gerard decide on this course of action in December? Nothing so far in the financial forensics points to a huge upheaval more than the ordinary upheavals, The business was on its normal swift slide down, nothing unusual , his capacity to pay his debts no further advanced, his facade is still operative to a certain degree...

Had he had a bright idea?? had something come to mind, or a light at the end of this dreadful tunnel been lit? Something made Gerard take Toni on again, despite the fact that he is toying with a couple of gals from other agencies....

What about the simple fact she was there and willing. He would not be one to miss an opportunity.

 

[Happygolucky]

There has to be a reason why Gerard decides to begin again with Toni in December..

As soon as I wrote that I realised that any reasoning Gerard has is out of my capability of grasping but putting that to one side....

Toni says she rang, she emailed , she rang and rang and rang, she wanted an explanation, she didnt understand why, why did it end, why was she fired, why why.qhy is Allison working there, why, .

So in December, Gerard meets her, they 'confirm ' their love.. whatever that means, he makes promises, he paints a picture of hope and solution, they make certain conditions, that is, no sex, excuse me , there is the promise, though.

So what made Gerard decide on this course of action in December? Nothing so far in the financial forensics points to a huge upheaval more than the ordinary upheavals, The business was on its normal swift slide down, nothing unusual , his capacity to pay his debts no further advanced, his facade is still operative to a certain degree...

Had he had a bright idea?? had something come to mind, or a light at the end of this dreadful tunnel been lit? Something made Gerard take Toni on again, despite the fact that he is toying with a couple of gals from other agencies....

It is mind boggling trying to fathom how Gerards mind works!! Perhaps vulnerable women feed his ego. Perhaps he likes to take charge and feel needed???? He certainly did not take TM back for frequent sex. If TM is to believed, they were only intimate twice since the separation. For a different reason, because of her ongoing depression, Alison was vulnerable. Her friend Elise, admitted at committal, that it was Gerard who convinced Allison to go get help for her depression. I find it difficult to believe that he really wanted to be permanently with TM if he was also having affairs with two other women--that does not equate to the emotional committment and promise he gave TM. And he certainly wanted TM out of his office once Alison found out. He certainly was a weak character.

 

[Happygolucky]

*edited by me*

Just because Gerard used his parents phone, doesn't mean I know who they are ringing. *edited by me*

'Lawfully intercepted phone calls on one of the defendants phone lines supports that the defendant has used his parents to assist him in covertly contact Ms McHugh on his behalf.

this is not Gerard using his parents phone without their knowledge. it is his parents using their phone to assist him in covertly contacting Ms McHugh.. it is clearly there on the police prosectutors statement.

Thanks Trooper, I obviouisly misinterpreted that.

 

[spratsmum]

Why is that the relationship with TMcH was different from GBC relationships with his other mistresses - was it a "fatal attraction", or was it that TMcH wouldn't take "no" for an answer, and if that is the case, our flattering that must have been to one over-inflated ego.

I think one of Gerard's "crimes" is that he believes his own publicity - the perfect husband, the perfect Dad, the perfect citizen and the perfect lover. He was surrounded by women - Mum, wife, daughters and sister - many of whom seem to have worshiped him - he was alpha male, king of kingdom and enjoyed every minute of female adulation. Each female in his life, fitted into a perfect box and fulfilled her role admirably, until they started to expect something from him - Allison - respect and love and Toni - just love and honesty, he couldn't do both, the ball unraveled, and the result is the horrible mistakes he has made, and the number of people he has destroyed or hurt along the way.

I wonder where he would be now if April 19 2012 had not happened. If whatever lead to Allison's murder hadn't happened. Would he still be a respected community figure, would be a Brookfield with his family, or living with TMcH, would he be in the throes of a divorce or he would be working at regaining the trust of his wife, where would his family be, i.e. NBC and OW. One event, momentous as it was changed the course of so many lives, and really it seems to me to boil down to the fact that, one man, with a huge inflated ego, could not keep one very much smaller penis, zipped and in his trousers

 

[possumheart]

I wonder where he would be now if April 19 2012 had not happened. If whatever lead to Allison's murder hadn't happened. Would he still be a respected community figure, would be a Brookfield with his family, or living with TMcH, would he be in the throes of a divorce or he would be working at regaining the trust of his wife, where would his family be, i.e. NBC and OW. One event, momentous as it was changed the course of so many lives ...

I was having these exact thoughts this morning. Perhaps his world was boxing him in so tightly he may have suicided otherwise?

 

[Mystique75]

IIRC, TM gave 4 maybe 5 statements to police before she lawyered up. That to me is more in line with someone who is blindsided. GBC in contrast gave a rambling version of events with way too much detail IMO, and one pathetic attempt to hit on a journo (in the guise of an interview, odd as it was with his sister firmly planted at his side and snugly fitted into him in a way that reminded me of a ventriloquist's stage act) which was quite a bit more rehearsed and brief.

IMO it was NBC who suggested the lawyer so early on. GBC obviously wasn't handling it too well on his own.

 

[spratsmum]

I was having these exact thoughts this morning. Perhaps his world was boxing him in so tightly he may have suicided otherwise?

I don't think Possumheart that GBC would commit suicide - that takes an amount of courage, and that is a trait sadly lacking in Brisbanes' most infamous Real Estate agent.

It seems to me that Gerard rode on the coat tails of others - adding the Baden prefix to that surname after Baden Powell, a business leader bought by his financial interest in a real business, the "man about town" because of his affairs(and no doubt a feather in his cap according to some other males), the father of three young girls - who no doubt adored him, husband of a former "Miss Brisbane" all of it is dressing, a bit like Real Estate, the best impression is what matters.

The more I ponder this I am starting to think TMcH plays a much bigger part in this that we imagine. |I do not mean that she was involved in the murder or the cover-up, but I think her actions, whatever they were, where a trigger to the events of 19 April.

I think TMcH is the "weakest link", she is the one who appeared in court, 10 months after the event, despondent and still emotional. I expected that she would have moved through the grieving process by now, and have entered the "anger" phase, and would have faced court strong and resolute. That is how I would have wanted to face him - I would never have wanted to let him see me upset - but she didn't, she acted like the distressed lover. I think it is worth exploring what "hold" Ms McH could have had over our "favourite" Arthur Gorrie inmate - there has to be something, and I would think it has to be to do with money and the business.

 

[DrWatson]

At the committal hearing it was noted that TM actually had her dates wrong in the statement and she did in fact break it off with GBC in September not October.

Might have been better for all if she DID break it off... literally! Oops - did I say that?

 

[possumheart]

I don't think Possumheart that GBC would commit suicide - that takes an amount of courage, and that is a trait sadly lacking in Brisbanes' most infamous Real Estate agent.

It seems to me that Gerard rode on the coat tails of others - adding the Baden prefix to that surname after Baden Powell, a business leader bought by his financial interest in a real business, the "man about town" because of his affairs(and no doubt a feather in his cap according to some other males), the father of three young girls - who no doubt adored him, husband of a former "Miss Brisbane" all of it is dressing, a bit like Real Estate, the best impression is what matters.

The more I ponder this I am starting to think TMcH plays a much bigger part in this that we imagine. |I do not mean that she was involved in the murder or the cover-up, but I think her actions, whatever they were, where a trigger to the events of 19 April.

I think TMcH is the "weakest link", she is the one who appeared in court, 10 months after the event, despondent and still emotional. I expected that she would have moved through the grieving process by now, and have entered the "anger" phase, and would have faced court strong and resolute. That is how I would have wanted to face him - I would never have wanted to let him see me upset - but she didn't, she acted like the distressed lover. I think it is worth exploring what "hold" Ms McH could have had over our "favourite" Arthur Gorrie inmate - there has to be something, and I would think it has to be to do with money and the business.

He told his colleagues he was 'doing her' for the business, true.

 

[Trooper]

I just noticed your signature there, Mystique... gosh, that was what I thought the moment I saw that wierd ambush done by the girl reporter with the cleavage Gerard couldnt take his eyes off. Added to that, the peculiar sister tugging his shirt and swivelling her eyes ... it just had all the red flags flying high that this terrible terrible event was a lot worse than a woman gone for a morning jog.. still appears that way to me. . the committal hearing gave a tiny sliver into the world of BadenClay amd Toni McHugh that makes fiscal nincompoopery an understatement.

These two did a whole lot more than fiddle each other and the money books. ..Toni's 5th statement may go towards clearing up why Ms McHugh is a prosecution witness and not a defence witness....

Something tells me the prosecutor has Toni over a barrell about something Toni cannot get out of without being a prosecution witness.. it must be galling , maddenning and I hope , a little bit frightening to Gerard that she has all along from that Saturday morning, been pencilled in as a prosecution witness.. the police let her go on until they pounce on the 5th statement, which we dont get until the trial, and give her the standard warning.

 

[Liadan]

He did call TM on the 19/4 at 2.43pm at her office on his phone - call lasted 5.03 minutes.

Yes SW that is the office of Blocksidge and Ferguson where TM worked but my thinking is that GBC probably thought that ringing a business number was something he could easily pass off as one Agent calling another business about 'business' stuff.

It surprises me that Danny Boyle didn't get or wasn't able to get exacting details of those phone calls between the lovers. As a witness for the prosecution I would have thought TM would have been very happy to distance herself from the horrible scenario at hand. She is basically hedging around the times and facts. Why?


I mean we have Davis probing and probing to get details out of TM at the committal and he was relentless. Yet nothing - the less she remembers the less that corroborates the intensity of the affair and the intensity of the affair would be directly proportional to how much she was willing to do to protect her love.

 

[Trooper]

and that, I think, is why Davis had Toni up on the stand at the committal.. to test her out, to see where she was going, to plant the idea in her mind, if not in a jury's that she might be considered a suspect...

Davis has a big job. he has to rehabilitate Gerard into some sort of goofy lovable idiot, and by extension, Olivia into a brave crusader, and Toni as suffering delusions and nutty as a Snickers bar.. that she is all those things is neither here nor there....

That was one thing interesting at the Hearing.. Gerard, in his interview that morning, says the affair ended 'last year'.. .yet Davis tacitly agrees that his client must have lied to the police that early in the process by questioning Toni about the continuation of it right up to April 20th.. I dont think Davis made a mistake, there is a strategy there..

So Davis is going to have to address that 'interview' at the home.

 

[Liadan]

Why is that the relationship with TMcH was different from GBC relationships with his other mistresses - was it a "fatal attraction", or was it that TMcH wouldn't take "no" for an answer, and if that is the case, our flattering that must have been to one over-inflated ego.

I think one of Gerard's "crimes" is that he believes his own publicity - the perfect husband, the perfect Dad, the perfect citizen and the perfect lover. He was surrounded by women - Mum, wife, daughters and sister - many of whom seem to have worshiped him - he was alpha male, king of kingdom and enjoyed every minute of female adulation. Each female in his life, fitted into a perfect box and fulfilled her role admirably, until they started to expect something from him - Allison - respect and love and Toni - just love and honesty, he couldn't do both, the ball unraveled, and the result is the horrible mistakes he has made, and the number of people he has destroyed or hurt along the way.

I wonder where he would be now if April 19 2012 had not happened. If whatever lead to Allison's murder hadn't happened. Would he still be a respected community figure, would be a Brookfield with his family, or living with TMcH, would he be in the throes of a divorce or he would be working at regaining the trust of his wife, where would his family be, i.e. NBC and OW. One event, momentous as it was changed the course of so many lives, and really it seems to me to boil down to the fact that, one man, with a huge inflated ego, could not keep one very much smaller penis, zipped and in his trousers

I think his other mistresses may have got wise about him - can't see the excitiment lasting. Once the flattery of his attention was gone they probably thought that was definitely not worth the effort.

 

[sosocurious]

Type errorHi All
I registered back in the early threads but I have just plucked up the courage to make my first ever post on a forum.
I feel gerard was just too eager to tell the police about his affair with TMH - while it would have come out eventually it just seems to me he wanted it out there from the get go. thought he did ask Cons Ash to keep it confidential.
I know there has been a lot of discussion in regard to GBC and Allisons phone records and so I got to thinking the office phones have been been included. Why are they significant?
205 calls were made
16 to Allison
188 to Gerard
1 to a witness at the commital hearing on 3 April.
Allison called that number 6 times
Gerard called the number twice
Reverse calls has number registered to Baden Clay D***** st Kenmore
No calls were made to Allison on the 19th
A 10 second call was made at 4.17 am from Ind'pily
On the 19th there was a quick succession of calls made to Gerard 5.01pm - 5.03-5.04-5.05-5.06-5.08-5.09-5.12-5.42 and 6.54.
All calls except 5.09 and 5.42 correspond to Gerards 101 Call Forward.
WHO works this mobile?

According to TMH statementshe was on the phone to Gbc between aprox 5.00 and 5.30 pm on the 19th and the phone call cut out once.

Gerard made 2 calls during the 5.00 and 5.30pm period to Kate R*****at 5.10 and 5.11pm from Kenmore. It could be assumed that this is when the call to TMH cut out.

According to TMH statement she phoned Gerard back. During take two of the call she was discussing looking forward to attending the conference and it was then Gerard informed her that he had just found out that Kate R had booked for her and Allison to attend the conference without his knowledge. (He did say sorry)
TMH then said you have known all week I was going. When were you going to tell me that?
I absolutely do not agree with the affair , but given their situation I can understand TMH asking that question. Given she would have known bookings had to be made before the 16th.
If Gerard was in fact with TMH on the 18th when Allison sent the text than TMH would have known Allison was aware something was going on.
Gerard did have opportunity to tell TMH during the 2.43pm call that day and on the other occassions they spoke or e-mailed.

Why did Gerard choose
* that particular time to tell TMH about Allison attending the conference
* that day to ring her from his mobile

I dont know if TMH is involved in the events or 19th - 20th but IMO Gerard has certaily implicated her.

 

[Trooper]

*edited by me*

I dont know if TMH is involved in the events or 19th - 20th but IMO Gerard has certaily implicated her.[/QUOTE]

He dropped her in it so fast, it even made Constable Ash's head spin.

exellent stuff with the phone

It's tempting to believe that Gerard is so stupid, so abysmally daft that he forgot to whom he was speaking when he said, oh yes, Allison is going to that conference too.. probably the only thought that crossed Our Boys mind was that his whole harem might be there too.. one thing to consider with Gerard.. the question one asks, is, how would a fool do this??

 

[spratsmum]

You know truly if the conference was such a "big deal" why didn't Toni just pull out - sick, any number of excuses, enter late, see where Allison is sitting and avoid her. Actually the last scenario would be more controlling, Allison wouldn't have known TMcH was there, .but Toni would have known exactly where Allison was. How many people were at this conference - it is a totally different scenario in a room with 20 as opposed to 150. No professional woman would risk a scene at an "industry" event like that, unless she feared something other than a sighting. Allison didn't appear to be so emotional in those few days that she would cause a scene and again Allison could have easily walked away - speak to the other lady from the office, go to the toilet, wander around the Convention Centre - I always find those break awkward if I don't know any body. Was Toni worried as to the questions Allison might ask? .

 

[LadyBird1]

and that, I think, is why Davis had Toni up on the stand at the committal.. to test her out, to see where she was going, to plant the idea in her mind, if not in a jury's that she might be considered a suspect...

Davis has a big job. he has to rehabilitate Gerard into some sort of goofy lovable idiot, and by extension, Olivia into a brave crusader, and Toni as suffering delusions and nutty as a Snickers bar.. that she is all those things is neither here nor there....

That was one thing interesting at the Hearing.. Gerard, in his interview that morning, says the affair ended 'last year'.. .yet Davis tacitly agrees that his client must have lied to the police that early in the process by questioning Toni about the continuation of it right up to April 20th.. I dont think Davis made a mistake, there is a strategy there..

So Davis is going to have to address that 'interview' at the home.

Hmm Interesting... I have the oddest feeling that TMcH is being set up. Some sort of fall guy. IMO.
In the court room, whilst she was mournfully looking at him, in return he turned away.
Was she, TMcH trying to read his eyes? Surely he isn't letting her down, is he? Not keeping his word, he, he promised...
And he, GBC, not allowing his eyes to meet her eyes, is saying, I tried to break it off with you before, but you insisted. I am not going to be answerable for what is yet to come. Handle it yourself.
Interesting too that the seed of doubt regarding GBC's guilt or innocence, has been sown in the Court, (suicide theory), by posters on both sites, WS and AC(I feel it inappropriate and unethical to name them), on Facebook, (GBC is innocent), by OW (street interview with no questions please) and the Townsville church congregation. None of these seed of doubt sowers, appear interested in either Allison or her justice, only that GBC gets off free.
One gets the feeling that anybody other than GBC will do as a suspect.
A random attacker. A boyfriend. An alien from another planet. TMcH.
The clues are:
Fingernail scratches on GBC's face straight away after Allison's disappearance.
Plant material from the Brookfield home found on her person.
A glove tip in the jumper/pullover that was found over Allison's head.
BC car with Allison's blood in it.
Lies deceit and cover-ups.
A deceased lady, Allison.

 

[AAAA]

Hmm Interesting... I have the oddest feeling that TMcH is being set up. Some sort of fall guy. IMO.
In the court room, whilst she was mournfully looking at him, in return he turned away.
Was she, TMcH trying to read his eyes? Surely he isn't letting her down, is he? Not keeping his word, he, he promised...
And he, GBC, not allowing his eyes to meet her eyes, is saying, I tried to break it off with you before, but you insisted. I am not going to be answerable for what is yet to come. Handle it yourself.
Interesting too that the seed of doubt regarding GBC's guilt or innocence, has been sown in the Court, (suicide theory), by posters on both sites, WS and AC, on Facebook, (GBC is innocent), by OW (street interview with no questions please) and the Townsville church congregation. None of these seed of doubt sowers, appear interested in either Allison or her justice, only that GBC gets off free.
One gets the feeling that anybody other than GBC will do as a suspect.
A random attacker. A boyfriend. An alien from another planet. TMcH.
The clues are:
Fingernail scratches on GBC's face straight away after Allison's disappearance.
Plant material from the Brookfield home found on her person.
A glove tip in the jumper/pullover that was found over Allison's head.
BC car with Allison's blood in it.
Lies deceit and cover-ups.
A deceased lady, Allison.

Ladybird, pardon my ignorance but what is AC? Never mind, brain fade!

 

[LadyBird1]

Ladybird, pardon my ignorance but what is AC? Never mind, brain fade!

Apologies AAAA It is the other site that is equally keen to see truth and justice prevail. Much debating, deliberations and interest there too. Plus a poster who was in Court just recently with a more than interesting report of what happened. Aussie Criminals and Crooks.

 

[Timmy]

I can't help but keep thinking that if GBC had just told police that fateful morning that he and his wife had had a huge row and that she had attacked him and scratched his face and then stormed off threatening to harm herself that the police officers may not have been quite as suspicious and things could have turned out very differently. With a history of depression that was well known..... Why would he not have thought to use that to his advantage? When you put yourself in his position it's hard to imagine how you would think that those scratches would not ring alarm bells when your wife has gone missing. Try as I might I can't understand what his thinking was and how the blunt razor story to him seemed more believable.