Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Couldbe]

Type errorHi All
I registered back in the early threads but I have just plucked up the courage to make my first ever post on a forum.
I feel gerard was just too eager to tell the police about his affair with TMH - while it would have come out eventually it just seems to me he wanted it out there from the get go. thought he did ask Cons Ash to keep it confidential.
I know there has been a lot of discussion in regard to GBC and Allisons phone records and so I got to thinking the office phones have been been included. Why are they significant?
205 calls were made
16 to Allison
188 to Gerard
1 to a witness at the commital hearing on 3 April.
Allison called that number 6 times
Gerard called the number twice
Reverse calls has number registered to Baden Clay D***** st Kenmore
No calls were made to Allison on the 19th
A 10 second call was made at 4.17 am from Ind'pily
On the 19th there was a quick succession of calls made to Gerard 5.01pm - 5.03-5.04-5.05-5.06-5.08-5.09-5.12-5.42 and 6.54.
All calls except 5.09 and 5.42 correspond to Gerards 101 Call Forward.
WHO works this mobile?

According to TMH statementshe was on the phone to Gbc between aprox 5.00 and 5.30 pm on the 19th and the phone call cut out once.

Gerard made 2 calls during the 5.00 and 5.30pm period to Kate R*****at 5.10 and 5.11pm from Kenmore. It could be assumed that this is when the call to TMH cut out.

According to TMH statement she phoned Gerard back. During take two of the call she was discussing looking forward to attending the conference and it was then Gerard informed her that he had just found out that Kate R had booked for her and Allison to attend the conference without his knowledge. (He did say sorry)
TMH then said you have known all week I was going. When were you going to tell me that?
I absolutely do not agree with the affair , but given their situation I can understand TMH asking that question. Given she would have known bookings had to be made before the 16th.
If Gerard was in fact with TMH on the 18th when Allison sent the text than TMH would have known Allison was aware something was going on.
Gerard did have opportunity to tell TMH during the 2.43pm call that day and on the other occassions they spoke or e-mailed.

Why did Gerard choose
* that particular time to tell TMH about Allison attending the conference
* that day to ring her from his mobile

I dont know if TMH is involved in the events or 19th - 20th but IMO Gerard has certaily implicated her.

Well done Sosocurious - big effort.

I too have been very curious about this: 10 second call was made at 4.17 am 19 Apr, from Ind'pily to GBC - this is quite a mysterious call...... who the heck would be phoning him from there at that hour! If it was a Security Company call for an alarm, you would think their own phone would be used.

Incidentally, I haven't been able to find any reference to this early morning call in GBC's Telstra bill (0400 456100) as being diverted to his MessageBank; so it would seem that he answered that 4.17 am call on 19 Apr.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Hi everyone, I am so sorry to have kept you all waiting. It took longer than I thought.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know I'm doing a final check and I'll post GBS's phone records really soon.
Sorry if there's any mistakes I really have tried to be careful.
Thanks.

 

[Maigret]

I just noticed your signature there, Mystique... gosh, that was what I thought the moment I saw that wierd ambush done by the girl reporter with the cleavage Gerard couldnt take his eyes off. Added to that, the peculiar sister tugging his shirt and swivelling her eyes ... it just had all the red flags flying high that this terrible terrible event was a lot worse than a woman gone for a morning jog.. still appears that way to me. . the committal hearing gave a tiny sliver into the world of BadenClay amd Toni McHugh that makes fiscal nincompoopery an understatement.

These two did a whole lot more than fiddle each other and the money books. ..Toni's 5th statement may go towards clearing up why Ms McHugh is a prosecution witness and not a defence witness....

Something tells me the prosecutor has Toni over a barrell about something Toni cannot get out of without being a prosecution witness.. it must be galling , maddenning and I hope , a little bit frightening to Gerard that she has all along from that Saturday morning, been pencilled in as a prosecution witness.. the police let her go on until they pounce on the 5th statement, which we dont get until the trial, and give her the standard warning.

Perhaps it's why Allison had to die that she had found out something very fishy/ dodgy with the books and Gerard and Nige had to do something and Tone knows what it was and has her suspicions - if so I'd be very scared if I was Toni what's another murder when you already have blood on your hands ( or all inside your car)

 

[Trooper]

I can't help but keep thinking that if GBC had just told police that fateful morning that he and his wife had had a huge row and that she had attacked him and scratched his face and then stormed off threatening to harm herself that the police officers may not have been quite as suspicious and things could have turned out very differently. With a history of depression that was well known..... Why would he not have thought to use that to his advantage? When you put yourself in his position it's hard to imagine how you would think that those scratches would not ring alarm bells when your wife has gone missing. Try as I might I can't understand what his thinking was and how the blunt razor story to him seemed more believable.

He didnt have time to work out a believable story. ringing the police in regard to Allison missing at 7.15am was a forced error.. like in tennis.. some event , unforseen and unplanned, interrupted the flow of Gerards play.

Gerard has had a lifetime of deceit.. even his very name is a deceit. My opinion is he really had no idea that Constable Ash would ask him if his relationship with his wife was alright.. it just never crossed his mind that police deal with missing people every day, their experience tops his, they deal with people whose loved ones are missing every day, or whose unloved ones are missing. .. he thought he just had to report her missing, put on his shirt, tie and cufflinks and off to a meeting !! Business as usual!!

 

[Timmy]

He didnt have time to work out a believable story. ringing the police in regard to Allison missing at 7.15am was a forced error.. like in tennis.. some event , unforseen and unplanned, interrupted the flow of Gerards play.

Gerard has had a lifetime of deceit.. even his very name is a deceit. My opinion is he really had no idea that Constable Ash would ask him if his relationship with his wife was alright.. it just never crossed his mind that police deal with missing people every day, their experience tops his, they deal with people whose loved ones are missing every day, or whose unloved ones are missing. .. he thought he just had to report her missing, put on his shirt, tie and cufflinks and off to a meeting !! Business as usual!!

Yes and maybe the story of Allison scratching his face was a little too close for comfort. What are your thoughts on what forced the error?

 

[Maigret]

He didnt have time to work out a believable story. ringing the police in regard to Allison missing at 7.15am was a forced error.. like in tennis.. some event , unforseen and unplanned, interrupted the flow of Gerards play.

Gerard has had a lifetime of deceit.. even his very name is a deceit. My opinion is he really had no idea that Constable Ash would ask him if his relationship with his wife was alright.. it just never crossed his mind that police deal with missing people every day, their experience tops his, they deal with people whose loved ones are missing every day, or whose unloved ones are missing. .. he thought he just had to report her missing, put on his shirt, tie and cufflinks and off to a meeting !! Business as usual!!

I think he thought they would just make a note and ask him to let them know if she didn't return by that night - certainly he didn't (nor did vacuum carrying Nige or whisking the children off to school OW ) expect the police to turn up and start going through things - why did they I wonder - previous DV or just a lets go see ?

 

[Maigret]

Yes and maybe the story of Allison scratching his face was a little too close for comfort. What are your thoughts on what forced the error?

I think it was a call to the house or a visit from one of Allison's friends - or maybe even one of the girls wondering if mummy would be back for the sleepover
Most men have no idea of the little things going on in a busy mums morning - something really threw him

 

[Timmy]

I think he thought they would just make a note and ask him to let them know if she didn't return by that night - certainly he didn't (nor did vacuum carrying Nige or whisking the children off to school OW ) expect the police to turn up and start going through things - why did they I wonder - previous DV or just a lets go see ?

And perhaps that's all that would have happened, had the 'modsnip' called the normal police number and not 000.

 

[spratsmum]

I can't help but keep thinking that if GBC had just told police that fateful morning that he and his wife had had a huge row and that she had attacked him and scratched his face and then stormed off threatening to harm herself that the police officers may not have been quite as suspicious and things could have turned out very differently. With a history of depression that was well known..... Why would he not have thought to use that to his advantage? When you put yourself in his position it's hard to imagine how you would think that those scratches would not ring alarm bells when your wife has gone missing. Try as I might I can't understand what his thinking was and how the blunt razor story to him seemed more believable.

Timmy I am sorry but I just have to say, I really don't think GBC has too much grey matter, many of his actions don't stand up to much questioning. He was flying by the seat of his pants, and he didn't think it through.

 

[Timmy]

Timmy I am sorry but I just have to say, I really don't think GBC has too much grey matter, many of his actions don't stand up to much questioning. He was flying by the seat of his pants, and he didn't think it through.

That's why I need to stop trying to understand his thinking-it's doing my head in!

 

[Trooper]

Yes and maybe the story of Allison scratching his face was a little too close for comfort. What are your thoughts on what forced the error?

I dont think it was anything vastly complicated, Tim.. From, lets say, Allison was last seen alive, by Gerard, at 10pm , Thursday night, comfy watching the footy show in her walking gear, hair all done, after a nice chat about the planned sleepover of Olivia's kids taking place the next night, and the usual 15 civil chat about his horrendous sexual betrayal again and again sustained over many years, under the instruction of the counsellor, which goes well , according to Gerard, they immediately at the tick of the clock switch over to general chat, and him stepping on to the public stage at 7.15am Friday morning.

so. 10pm 10.30 pm. to 7.15am.

Gerard has to play time backwards from 7.15am. he is in fact doing it when he sends those texts to Allisons phone..starting around 6.30am I'm up... Kids are still asleep, Kids up. Making lunches, hope you slept well.. and so on. He is doing what he thinks is normal. Time is moving forward, Gerard is going backwards timewise. He is portraying a normal morning.

But he has been phoning Elaines phone, Olivias phone, Kate Rankins phone, Allisons phone, ...

My guess, its only a guess, is that something struck him as crucial around 5.30am.. some forced error , something he hasnt factored in, something about the TIME he is going to report Allison missing. Maybe he realised that he was the one who had to report her.. Perhaps he hoped someone else would ring the alarm bell, he would be at work, Mr Efficient-in-cufflinks, and be the worried frantic bloke...

Perhaps he realised that Allison was going to meet Kate Rankin earlier than he supposed, and she would be waiting for Allison much earlier than he expected anyone to be aware of Allisons non appearance.. I dont know. but its something like that.. a forced error...

 

[Maigret]

And perhaps that's all that would have happened, had the 'modsnip' called the normal police number and not 000.

And in the transcript of the 000 call he states he tried the 13 number but it went on and on - hmmm 20 seconds is all

 

[Timmy]

I dont think it was anything vastly complicated, Tim.. From, lets say, Allison was last seen alive, by Gerard, at 10pm , Thursday night, comfy watching the footy show in her walking gear, hair all done, after a nice chat about the planned sleepover of Olivia's kids taking place the next night, and the usual 15 civil chat about his horrendous sexual betrayal again and again sustained over many years, under the instruction of the counsellor, which goes well , according to Gerard, they immediately at the tick of the clock switch over to general chat, and him stepping on to the public stage at 7.15am Friday morning.

so. 10pm 10.30 pm. to 7.15am.

Gerard has to play time backwards from 7.15am. he is in fact doing it when he sends those texts to Allisons phone..starting around 6.30am I'm up... Kids are still asleep, Kids up. Making lunches, hope you slept well.. and so on. He is doing what he thinks is normal. Time is moving forward, Gerard is going backwards timewise. He is portraying a normal morning.

But he has been phoning Elaines phone, Olivias phone, Kate Rankins phone, Allisons phone, ...

My guess, its only a guess, is that something struck him as crucial around 5.30am.. some forced error , something he hasnt factored in, something about the TIME he is going to report Allison missing. Maybe he realised that he was the one who had to report her.. Perhaps he hoped someone else would ring the alarm bell, he would be at work, Mr Efficient-in-cufflinks, and be the worried frantic bloke...

Perhaps he realised that Allison was going to meet Kate Rankin earlier than he supposed, and she would be waiting for Allison much earlier than he expected anyone to be aware of Allisons non appearance.. I dont know. but its something like that.. a forced error...

....and let's face it-on his past record his errors don't appear to need too much forcing!

 

[spratsmum]

I think it was a call to the house or a visit from one of Allison's friends - or maybe even one of the girls wondering if mummy would be back for the sleepover
Most men have no idea of the little things going on in a busy mums morning - something really threw him

I think the being dressed and ready for work would have been seen by the police as odd.

You have just told them that you wife probably slept on the couch, your face has been gouged, but you get up in the morning, do the routine tasks and sending loving thoughtful messages to your wife, you also drive around the neighbourhood looking, including measuring the distance between home and bus stop, call you sister and your father to your home (wouldn't it have been more sensible for Grandma to have come) and then call the police to report your wife as missing and all of this in an hour and quarter - busy man, but above all you are ready for work - what a guy!! The two situations, if you really think your wife is missing - either voluntary or involuntary, and she hasn't told you her spouse, than your place is at home, waiting and looking, if you think she is coming back and is delayed either to annoy you or be circumstances such as helping someone, or perhaps having had an accident and taken to hospital, you check with the ambulance service or hospital or police, but you don't report her missing. Missing truly is admission even just to yourself, that something has happened that is worrying, not that she is late home by an hour.

 

[LadyBird1]

Yes and maybe the story of Allison scratching his face was a little too close for comfort. What are your thoughts on what forced the error?

What forced the error?
I think Trooper may have answered this vexatious matter with words such as "Some sort of goofy lovable idiot" (What Davis may need to portray him as)
"G so stupid, so abysmally daft that he forgot to whom he was speaking......
"He didn't have time to work out a believable story. Ringing the police in regard to Allison missing at 7.15am was a forced error.. Like in tennis.. Some event , unforseen and unplanned, interrupted the flow of Gerards play."

My own thoughts are, everything about this G is a walking talking disaster.
A bumbling idiotic nincompoop with a big head. IMO. However, dangerous in the extreme, and not to be taken lightly.

 

[Trooper]

....and let's face it-on his past record his errors don't appear to need too much forcing!

You would think that. but gosh, he did get away with an awful lot of forced errors.. the money, the women, the business arrangements, the hiring and firing of staff, his own employment record, ( very dodgy) ... over years, it seems , quite ordinary people lent him whacks of money, people invested buckets of money in him, Kenmore made him the president of the Chamber of Commerce, * not that being the Pres of that is any credit *even the Tax office seems to have held off on him, his wife continued with his marriage, his extracurricular women wanted to continue their misery with him , one in particular seemed to relish, nay, beg for more misery, to an extraordinary degree...

 

[spratsmum]

That's why I need to stop trying to understand his thinking-it's doing my head in!

I think that is one of the frustrations of this case - we are trying to work it out using common sense and intelligence - and I think sadly neither of those attributes were used in the original situation.

I can understand emotion played a part, fear, despair, and probably excitement to some degree, but I can't understand why when it looked at the situation more rationally over the next few days his actions became more irrational - the beard, the car crash, the false tears in the interview, why not even then come out with , Allison and I were having some difficulties, I had been having an affair and the flood took a toll on our business finances, we had a huge fight that night and she stormed out and I haven't seen her since. The above scenario would have engendered some degree of sympathy for him, but no de no, he kept on lying and kept up the pretense of a happy marriage and successful business - he is a fool

 

[Strangeworld]

Type errorHi All
I registered back in the early threads but I have just plucked up the courage to make my first ever post on a forum.
I feel gerard was just too eager to tell the police about his affair with TMH - while it would have come out eventually it just seems to me he wanted it out there from the get go. thought he did ask Cons Ash to keep it confidential.I know there has been a lot of discussion in regard to GBC and Allisons phone records and so I got to thinking the office phones have been been included. Why are they significant?
205 calls were made
16 to Allison
188 to Gerard
1 to a witness at the commital hearing on 3 April.
Allison called that number 6 times
Gerard called the number twice
Reverse calls has number registered to Baden Clay D***** st Kenmore
No calls were made to Allison on the 19th
A 10 second call was made at 4.17 am from Ind'pily
On the 19th there was a quick succession of calls made to Gerard 5.01pm - 5.03-5.04-5.05-5.06-5.08-5.09-5.12-5.42 and 6.54.
All calls except 5.09 and 5.42 correspond to Gerards 101 Call Forward.
WHO works this mobile?

According to TMH statementshe was on the phone to Gbc between aprox 5.00 and 5.30 pm on the 19th and the phone call cut out once.

Gerard made 2 calls during the 5.00 and 5.30pm period to Kate R*****at 5.10 and 5.11pm from Kenmore. It could be assumed that this is when the call to TMH cut out.

According to TMH statement she phoned Gerard back. During take two of the call she was discussing looking forward to attending the conference and it was then Gerard informed her that he had just found out that Kate R had booked for her and Allison to attend the conference without his knowledge. (He did say sorry)
TMH then said you have known all week I was going. When were you going to tell me that?
I absolutely do not agree with the affair , but given their situation I can understand TMH asking that question. Given she would have known bookings had to be made before the 16th.
If Gerard was in fact with TMH on the 18th when Allison sent the text than TMH would have known Allison was aware something was going on.
Gerard did have opportunity to tell TMH during the 2.43pm call that day and on the other occassions they spoke or e-mailed.

Why did Gerard choose
* that particular time to tell TMH about Allison attending the conference
* that day to ring her from his mobile

I dont know if TMH is involved in the events or 19th - 20th but IMO Gerard has certaily implicated her.

Welcome sosocurious!

BBM - I believe GBC revealed the affair early on as a way of demonstrating his 'honesty' and 'openness' to the police. An attempt at veiled manipulation IMO. He was putting himself forward as a husband that had erred, but he was trying to right his wrongs, had ended the affair, and was working on his marriage.....the police would have seen straight through this.

 

[Couldbe]

Respectfully snipped

My guess, its only a guess, is that something struck him as crucial around 5.30am.. some forced error , something he hasnt factored in, something about the TIME he is going to report Allison missing. Maybe he realised that he was the one who had to report her.. Perhaps he hoped someone else would ring the alarm bell, he would be at work, Mr Efficient-in-cufflinks, and be the worried frantic bloke... ...

.... suddenly switched his attention to the scratches ..... thought that to match up with the story about shaving cuts (scratches) he had better get all dressed for work .... info conveyed to Police about having s..., s..., & s....

 

[Trooper]

Nigel and Olivia never mention the chunks out of his face.. and lets agree, they saw them first.. before any of the kids did, or Constable Ash.. ..

'whats that on your face, Ger?'....

'blunt razor, Dad'..'.

'oh.. where's that vacuum cleaner? .'

Daughter in law missing, Olivia has to be dragged from her bed at Niges, at some ungodly early hour, Elaine has to mind Olivias kids, Nige is already at Allisons home..

Olivia....... ' Lord have mercy , Gerard, you've got chunks out of your face'...

*Gerard* ...'... blunt razor, in a hurry shaving'...

* Olivia.......' wheres those lunches you made for the girls?'.

Normal!