Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Happygolucky]

I'm leaving you all to it. I can't look at it anymore :banghead:
I'll be back tomorrow as I have to work a night.
Hopefully some of you will find some kind of pattern and hopefully some of you don't find too many mistakes. ; )

Many thanks for your huge effort. I look forward to going through it in detail:fence:

 

[Timmy]

Yes I agree. Surely he couldnt have thought that digging at your face repeatedly with a rusty blunt Gillette while your beloved wife is missing would be more believable than searching frantically for her after they had a ding-dong row and she has fled into the night?
Which kind of makes me still wonder..(and I think I proposed this way back)...What if she did take off on foot after an argument? In anger/distress, maybe she caught TM and GBC together at the Brookfield house? Did she get back from the hairdresser earlier than they expected? and GBC has taken off after her on foot? TM has then followed?! Would explain the yells and various different neighbours who heard things at differing times.

Then therere has been a struggle between ABC and GBC (scratch marks on face) and a fall outside the property (hence Scraps yapping his head off), and she has died there? Was TM trying to pull him off Allison during the struggle - the bruising on his chest? He has had to drag the now deceased Allison back to the garage, put her in a car along with TM who is now flipping out.
Maybe thats why he needed NBC to come and help him at the bridge as TM was a hysterical mess by now - repeated sightings of vehicles, and who was driving what vehicle is still a mystery (yes that roundabout again!).

What is muddying everything is a lack of clear cause of death.Strangulation has not been completely ruled out, but is not convincing. No obvious head trauma, no broken bones...nothing. Decomposition was not helping the Coroner, but surely blunt head trauma with depressed fractures of the skull are easily determined. Very frustrating.:banghead:

The above scenario is all my own conjecture and opinion only.

And we do know from her statement that TM had asked him to meet with her and was putting pressure on him about the conference the following day.

 

[Nads]

Does anyone know how the phone records match up, or not, with the screams etc heard and the times that night?

Do you think if an event occurred and G needed help that night he would have just jumped in the car and went round rather than rang?

 

[Trooper]

Davis set the scene in court when questioning TM that Gerard had lied about that morning in his admission of a "past" affair'...

sorry to do this again, HGL...

Davis didnt question Toni about what lies Gerard had told the police at any stage.. in fact, he cant, that would be hearsay and opinion .

Davis did not refer to Gerards outstanding lie in his first 5 minutes with the first responding police... and then the second lot.

What I said was, or meant to say was.. Davis, by questioning Toni about the ongoing element of the affair, after December up until Gerards arrest, Davis was tacitly agreeing that his client lied to the police, because Gerard said the thing had ended 'last year'... he has made no other reference to it at all.. no statements, no nothing. so.

What I was implying was, Davis knows his client is a liar, he has this particular hurdle to get over, and by bringing up that element, Davis knows and Gerard knows and the police, the magistrate, you, me and Uncle Tom Cobbly know that Gerard , with his wife missing, and this is Gerards claim, nobody else's, it's Gerards call , is already lying.

My query .. or I suppose you could say, my interest in this bit is Davis acknowledging, albeit in a tacit manner, opaque , not overt, and already this early into the whole panoply of Committal, Trial, Appeal etc, that his client lied to the police from the beginning.

Davis gets his instructions from Gerard. Therefore, Gerard has discussed with Davis the ins and outs of the ongoing yet very secret affair after the outing of it originally. and its Post-Allison Missing continuance.

But Davis must clearly know that Gerard told all attending police that it ended last year. so did Toni at her interviews, but thats beside this point.

 

[ollijack]

I think he thought they would just make a note and ask him to let them know if she didn't return by that night - certainly he didn't (nor did vacuum carrying Nige or whisking the children off to school OW ) expect the police to turn up and start going through things - why did they I wonder - previous DV or just a lets go see ?

Maigret I think our wonderful police are damn good at their job
How arrogant of him to think he could be smarter xxxx

 

[Timmy]

sorry to do this again, HGL...

Davis didnt question Toni about what lies Gerard had told the police at any stage.. in fact, he cant, that would be hearsay and opinion .

Davis did not refer to Gerards outstanding lie in his first 5 minutes with the first responding police... and then the second lot.

What I said was, or meant to say was.. Davis, by questioning Toni about the ongoing element of the affair, after December up until Gerards arrest, Davis was tacitly agreeing that his client lied to the police, because Gerard said the thing had ended 'last year'... he has made no other reference to it at all.. no statements, no nothing. so.

What I was implying was, Davis knows his client is a liar, he has this particular hurdle to get over, and by bringing up that element, Davis knows and Gerard knows and the police, the magistrate, you, me and Uncle Tom Cobbly know that Gerard , with his wife missing, and this is Gerards claim, nobody else's, it's Gerards call , is already lying.

My query .. or I suppose you could say, my interest in this bit is Davis acknowledging, albeit in a tacit manner, opaque , not overt, and already this early into the whole panoply of Committal, Trial, Appeal etc, that his client lied to the police from the beginning.

Davis gets his instructions from Gerard. Therefore, Gerard has discussed with Davis the ins and outs of the ongoing yet very secret affair after the outing of it originally. and its Post-Allison Missing continuance.

But Davis must clearly know that Gerard told all attending police that it ended last year. so did Toni at her interviews, but thats beside this point.

Wow Trooper! That's far more complicated than the IKYK. Something along the lines of DKGKPKMKYKIK and UTCK!

 

[Flinders]

Getting close to the 1st year of Allisons death. Gonna be a sad day.

I lost 2 family members after April. It was around the time when Go Nads was funny. When you miss someone, every holiday is a reminder. The dates of their passing is awful.

 

[spratsmum]

why did TMcH take off to bed after speaking to GBC on the Friday afternoon? If it had of been me in that position I think my mind would have been racing so fast, that sleep would have been far from my thoughts, perhaps though she had been up all the night before?
I have never thought Toni McHugh did it, but perhaps she helped, she is the obvious person I suppose and in light of no further arrests perhaps she has been granted immunity from prosecution .

 

[Trooper]

Wow Trooper! That's far more complicated than the IKYK. Something along the lines of DKGKPKMKYKIK and UTCK!

* yeah.. * hangs head , shuffles feet* .. .. it is complicated, now that I see it up there, but FIIDC, at the trial, see, Davis is going to have to get Gerard over that big jump. .. Davis has now, on record, acknowledged, by questioning Toni about the Post Allison Missing segment, Dec 2011 to May 2012, and agreed that his client was a bit discombobulated that morning and misled the police in the matter of his missing wife.

No doubt Mr.Boyle was onto it.

 

[spratsmum]

There is a call at 12.25 pm on the 20th of April to Brookfield Showground Maintenance, was the command post set up that early?

 

[Couldbe]

Respectfully snipped...What if she did take off on foot after an argument? In anger/distress, maybe she caught TM and GBC together at the Brookfield house? Did she get back from the hairdresser earlier than they expected? and GBC has taken off after her on foot? TM has then followed?! Would explain the yells and various different neighbours who heard things at differing times.

Then therere has been a struggle between ABC and GBC (scratch marks on face) and a fall outside the property (hence Scraps yapping his head off), and she has died there? Was TM trying to pull him off Allison during the struggle - the bruising on his chest? He has had to drag the now deceased Allison back to the garage, put her in a car along with TM who is now flipping out.
....(respectfully snipped)
The above scenario is all my own conjecture and opinion only.

Saxon, could very possibly be close to the true scenario. When I have though along the lines of Allison taking off on foot, I have just thought that Allison would know where her keys were (having just arrived home from the hairdresser) and wonder why she wouldn't just jump into her car.

Refer link: http://www.news.com.au/national-new...aid-out-in-court/story-fndo4ckr-1226598536905
"Brookfield physiotherapist Anne Rhodes, who lives a short distance away in the direction of the city, dropped in to the police command post on Friday, April 20, and asked officers what was happening.
The court heard Rhodes didn't tell police of hearing any strange sounds at the time.

Only later, she said, did she piece together a series of unusual noises on the night of April 19, including an argument, scream, thud and screech of tyres."
..... occurred at about 10pm on 19 Apr.
The defence, however, challenged the fact she had not reported the sounds earlier.

 

[Happygolucky]

Davis set the scene in court when questioning TM that Gerard had lied about that morning in his admission of a "past" affair'...

sorry to do this again, HGL...

Davis didnt question Toni about what lies Gerard had told the police at any stage.. in fact, he cant, that would be hearsay and opinion .

Davis did not refer to Gerards outstanding lie in his first 5 minutes with the first responding police... and then the second lot.

What I said was, or meant to say was.. Davis, by questioning Toni about the ongoing element of the affair, after December up until Gerards arrest, Davis was tacitly agreeing that his client lied to the police, because Gerard said the thing had ended 'last year'... he has made no other reference to it at all.. no statements, no nothing. so.

What I was implying was, Davis knows his client is a liar, he has this particular hurdle to get over, and by bringing up that element, Davis knows and Gerard knows and the police, the magistrate, you, me and Uncle Tom Cobbly know that Gerard , with his wife missing, and this is Gerards claim, nobody else's, it's Gerards call , is already lying.

My query .. or I suppose you could say, my interest in this bit is Davis acknowledging, albeit in a tacit manner, opaque , not overt, and already this early into the whole panoply of Committal, Trial, Appeal etc, that his client lied to the police from the beginning.

Davis gets his instructions from Gerard. Therefore, Gerard has discussed with Davis the ins and outs of the ongoing yet very secret affair after the outing of it originally. and its Post-Allison Missing continuance.

But Davis must clearly know that Gerard told all attending police that it ended last year. so did Toni at her interviews, but thats beside this point.

Hii Trooper, you are again correct!! Davis questioned TM about her affair. Her answers, without clearly stating, implicated Gerard in a lie to the police. I take your point

 

[Liadan]

Wow Trooper! That's far more complicated than the IKYK. Something along the lines of DKGKPKMKYKIK and UTCK!

OMG I dare you to decipher DKGKPKMKYKIK and UTCK - oops let me.

T don't tell anyone I did it. (oops there are too many letters in the acronym -no wait - its just their code IYKWIM)

Sorry everyone !

 

[ollijack]

omg i dare you to decipher dkgkpkmkykik and utck - oops let me.

T don't tell anyone i did it. (oops there are too many letters in the acronym -no wait - its just their code iykwim)

sorry everyone !

rofl xxxxxxx

 

[they'll get you]

Ok so Davis is ultimately working for GBC.
If push comes to shove he will save GBC's hide no matter what.

Could Davis & GBC turn on TM?
TM better have a good alibi for that night.
Is this what OW is referring to when she says the truth will come out but won't lt the cat out yet?
Was that the yearning look TM gave GBC 'please don't do this to me?' and GBC looked away
I think TM better have a very good lawyer now!

 

[Trooper]

From Gerards, and consequently Davis's, point of view, Toni is expendable. She is, after all, the prosecution witness. not Gerards.. Toni is on the opposing side, whether willingly or not, whether hostile or reluctant or formerly obstructionist, Toni has the imprimateur of the Queensland Police Service, and the Justice Department of Qld.

She may indeed be as silly as a wheel, as grotesque as a fish with feet, she is for the purpose of nailing Gerard BadenClay with the Murder of his wife and the Interference with her corpse, under the banner of the State Prosecutor of Qld. . Thats what it is.

State prosecutors sometimes have to tolerate strange people as their witnesses.

Something has placed her in that camp as opposed to being in the other camp. Something out of her control, and something I think she dearly would wish to change, but cannot.

 

[Flinders]

Ok so Davis is ultimately working for GBC.
If push comes to shove he will save GBC's hide no matter what.

Could Davis & GBC turn on TM?
TM better have a good alibi for that night.
Is this what OW is referring to when she says the truth will come out but won't lt the cat out yet?
Was that the yearning look TM gave GBC 'please don't do this to me?' and GBC looked away
I think TM better have a very good lawyer now!

Davis represents GBC. The truth will come out is a good sound grab for radio and tv. .. Grr I don't have a link... The testimony won't stand up in court is what I read.

So I don't know but I have been told.

 

[Trooper]

As for TM being a witness for the prosecution, what if he did confess/hint something to her after the fact, which is very incriminating and hence was not presented at the Committal but which QPS are aware of? I feel that TM will not be able to hold it together (mentally) for another 6-12 months and may have a breakdown.

\\edited by me, trooper *


what if he discussed something with Toni before the fact, which is subsequently very incriminating, not yet presented at the Committal, but which the QPS are aware of?

 

[Aunty]

I'm leaving you all to it. I can't look at it anymore :banghead:
I'll be back tomorrow as I have to work a night.
Hopefully some of you will find some kind of pattern and hopefully some of you don't find too many mistakes. ; )

:great: This is unreal. Thanks sooooo much.
:what: Just look at all the calls to Toni. :what:
Those 2 knew Allison wasn't coming home, it's so clear now.

 

[Maigret]

Davis represents GBC. The truth will come out is a good sound grab for radio and tv. .. Grr I don't have a link... The testimony won't stand up in court is what I read.

So I don't know but I have been told.

So you have been told the evidence against him won't stand up in court??