Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[IN2ITION]

Although I have been following this forum I am a first time poster I have always been very interested in the case as my daughter attended Girls Grammar at the same time as Allison and they met up less than 12 months before her murder at a school reunion.I have been thinking about the marks on GBC chest and thought the one under his armpit could be caused from someone grabbing his shirt with force pulling it up under his armpit or Allison grabbing it from the front with force and pulling it up try it yourself it is possible and it does leave a mark.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Oh and regarding the gloves. I keep a box in the kitchen for handling chicken (ewwww yuck!). They get pretty brittle and I can see them breaking quite easily.

 

[Couldbe]

Although I have been following this forum I am a first time poster I have always been very interested in the case as my daughter attended Girls Grammar at the same time as Allison and they met up less than 12 months before her murder at a school reunion.I have been thinking about the marks on GBC chest and thought the one under his armpit could be caused from someone grabbing his shirt with force pulling it up under his armpit or Allison grabbing it from the front with force and pulling it up try it yourself it is possible and it does leave a mark.

Hi In2ition - welcome. The marks on his chest are quite different, and who knows you could be right.

I too have a theory that he acquired them when he slid down the embankment of the Kholo Creek ...... he put his arm up and grabbed a tree branch that snapped (cut on his hand) and the bottom of the branch came back and scratched him under his arm (through his shirt); he then grazed his chest when he hit the trunk of the same tree as he slid passed.

Apparently, the Police found some 'drag marks' beside a track leading down to a part of the creek.
JMO

 

[Zanzibar]

Thats overly nice of you, but I am pretty sure I don't add that much more power to the good Docs experience and knowledge. And he does actually save lives...we just put broken bits of you back together. Hopefully around the right way most of the time.

Yes the type of glove he is describing is incredibly elastic and you could grab a hold of a finger and it would stretch quite a way, and then likely snap off with just the fingertip end. I (like the Doc) have only seen them come in boxes like a tissue box. So here is a question...where did he get it from?

If it was him wearing it though of course.

IMO

Many friends of mine have boxes in the kitchen for use during particularly nasty illnesses / accidents that need cleaning up in the house. I use the blue ones under my hard wearing road accident rescue extraction gloves and they tear all the time when I'm taking them off. As Doc said, once they're sweaty they seem to tear with not much effort, although admittedly more around the wrist than the finger tip.

 

[Makara]

After reading Constable Kieran Ash's statement yet again, there are some glaring lies told by GBC, and Constable Ash picked them up almost immediately. :rocker:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048143&postcount=12"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]


Constable Ash stated that upon arrival at the Brookfield house at 8:00am, he noticed the following vehicles parked at the Brookfield house. (It is interesting to note the actual position of these vehicles).

1. An older model silver Holden Statesman parked directly in front of the house, facing down the driveway.

2. A white Toyota Prado was parked across the driveway.

3. A silver Holden Captiva was reverse parked under the carport of the house.

4. There was also a blue sedan parked at the end of the driveway facing the house. The police car subsequently parked behind the blue sedan.

GBC told Constable Ash that he'd called his sister Olivia to come and drive the girls to school in the blue sedan. (But he also told the 000 operator that he had to get his father to come and look after the girls while he drove around looking for Allison). Interestingly there is no record of a call made from GBC's mobile to NBC early that morning. He may have phoned NBC from the Brookfield landline but I doubt it.

Constable Ash noted at the time of arriving at the house at 8:00am that GBC was dressed in business attire with tie and cuff links. Ash also observed the scratches on GBC's face. GBC told Ash that he cut himself shaving while rushing to get the girls ready that morning. (If what GBC said was true, he would have cut himself shaving sometime after 7:15am when he phoned the police and when the police arrived at 8:00am).

GBC told Ash that he'd been out searching for Allison in the silver Captiva that morning. The Captiva was now reverse parked in the carport of the house.

GBC then said that he'd driven around a few of the local streets that Allison normally walked along but couldn't find her and had to return home to get his daughters up, give them breakfast and get them ready for school as well as get himself ready by having a ****, shower and shave.

GBC said that OW had also been out looking for Allison, driving up and down the local streets but failed to find her.

Constable Ash asked GBC if it was definitely the Captiva that he took out in search of Allison and when he got home, reversed it around the Prado into the carport. GBC said he did and it was easy for him to reverse around the Prado.


Now let's look at the time line of events on the morning of Thursday 19 April 2012.

GBC phoned the police at 7:15am.

"I'm now driving the streets and my father has come over to look after the children. I need to go home and get the kids ready for school."

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048080&postcount=7"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]


Prior to GBC phoning the police he made the following calls.

6:20am: Text to Allison: "Good morning! Hope you slept well? Where are you? None of the girls are up yet! Love G."

6:32am: Allison.

6:38am: Allison.

6:41am: Text to Allison: "Al, getting concerned. Where are you? The app doesn't say either? H and S now up. I'm dressed and about to make lunches. Please just text me back or call! Love G."

6:45am: Allison.

6:46am: EBC.

6:53am: Sergeant Murray Watson - witness to the accident in the Prado earlier that week and is part of the Kenmore Hills neighbourhood watch program.

6:55am: OW.

7:02am: Allison.

7:03am: Allison.

7:06am: OW.

7:09am: Kate Rankin (Belle Real Estate).

7:11am: OW.

7:15am: Police.

7:19am: Olivia.

7:35am: Allison.

7:39am: OW.

No further calls were made until 9:36am.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9048233&postcount=23"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*[/ame]


Now look at the short duration between each of these calls. GBC started texting and phoning at 6:20am and did not come up for air until 7:39am. So my question is when did he find the time to take the Captiva out to search for Allison and then return home to have his shower, shave, get dressed and make the girls lunches?

Remember - GBC told Constable Ash that after driving around he had to return home to get the girls ready for school and also have his ****, shower and shave. Did he have the phone in the shower with him? No! He'd showered and dressed long before he sent Allison the text message at 6:20am. He did not go out looking for Allison at any time that morning. Everything GBC told Constables Ash and Hammond on that Thursday morning was a lie. Thankfully Constable Kieran Ash was astute enough to pick up on GBC's lies and body language. Astute enough to call his Duty Officer Senior Sergeant Narelle Curtis and inform her that he was uncomfortable with the version of events that GBC had given him.

Rock on Kieran Ash. :rocker: You are a true hero in my eyes. :great:

BBM:

 

[Makara]

Judging by the attached pics, it would seem that police and recovery personnel wore blue gloves and not a cream coloured glove consistent with the glove tip described in the forensic report. The blue gloves would more than likely have been standard police issue. Well they were on the day of Allison's recovery from Kholo Creek.

Click on images to enlarge.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

Thank you Makara. According to the 000 transcript he was in ( indistinct) Street at the time of the call although he gave his location as his home address at the start of the call .i don't think he was in the captiva . Maybe just on foot round the corner in ( indistinct ) Street . The cars in the driveway were parked very carefully to conceal the captiva. A bit. From the impending arrival of the police . Yeh ,I agree , go constable Ash . ! And you rock too Makara

 

[Makara]

Perhaps GBC put a cream coloured disposable glove on the hand that was cut during his assault on Allison to stop any of his blood being found on Allison when he moved her.

 

[Makara]

Thank you Makara. According to the 000 transcript he was in ( indistinct) Street at the time of the call although he gave his location as his home address at the start of the call .i don't think he was in the captiva . Maybe just on foot round the corner in ( indistinct ) Street . The cars in the driveway were parked very carefully to conceal the captiva. A bit. From the impending arrival of the police . Yeh ,I agree , go constable Ash . ! And you rock too Makara

Thanks Chief. I don't think GBC was on foot. The dumb arse really didn't have a leg to stand on, let lone a foot! :floorlaugh: Seriously though, he didn't go anywhere to search for Allison IMO. Why would he? He knew where she was.

I've also wondered if the Captiva was used at all that night to transport Allison to Kholo Creek. Yes, her blood was found in the Captiva but perhaps GBC initially placed her there, she bled unbeknownst to him and when 'help' arrived she was then moved to a white 4WD with distinctive number plates. I have never read anywhere that Nigelaine's vehicles were forensically tested. The Statesman may have been impounded by police at the Brookfield house on the Friday but I don't think that car was used to transport Allison to Kholo Creek.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

Yep but I wonder if he knew that 000 would trace the call ? H had to make it seem like he was driving the streets . Or was that just advice from the early morning babysitter ?

 

[Snoopey]

Either way it's an ungodly hour to be at an office. I wonder what was in his diary for that day or who was he meeting there or, or, or did Allison & he have a fight then and he just took off to the office.....ahhhh I'm just getting more confused :banghead: BRING ON THAT DAMN TRIAL!

Seems like the office phone is a mobile one (0438625251) so it may not necessarily have always stayed in the office. That raises the question as to who had the phone at that time? There was also a call from that phone originating from St Lucia to GBC on 4th April.

 

[Maigret]

Seems like the office phone is a mobile one (0438625251) so it may not necessarily have always stayed in the office. That raises the question as to who had the phone at that time? There was also a call from that phone originating from St Lucia to GBC on 4th April.

Interesting

 

[Maigret]

That office phone seemed to go on a little holiday at Easter - maybe so Toni could keep in touch with GBC ?
And if he was out and about he could call Allison from that phone and make out that he was in the office

 

[McCoy]

It's good the sleuthing continues, when I had a break in domestic commitments over Easter I did some more exploring of Brookfield

One question to locals, and sorry if this is obvious, but what is that red phone booth? is that decoration only? I'm sure if was lit up at night another time I drove past, but it was in paddock nearby large animals?

S-M It's for decoration. They are for sale there is a web site on old phone boxes

 

[Aunty]

Perhaps GBC put a cream coloured disposable glove on the hand that was cut during his assault on Allison to stop any of his blood being found on Allison when he moved her.

I think this is the best explanation.

 

[DrWatson]

Outstanding work and clear thinking with that morning timeline of events, Makara. Excellent. Yes, I agree with you - I have doubted all along tha GBC was out driving anywhere that morning - but so many people have thought he was just because he told the 000 operator he was.! But he didn't need to be. and by the time NBC and OW got there (assuming they came round very early in response to a call from the landline), he would surely have told them that he had already been out to look for Allison?

Just re the gloves - thanks for those photos Makara - yes indeed, most of the Crime Scene folks wore the blue nitrile gloves. However, it wouldn't be unusual for some people to wear the cream coloured ones. Personally, I find the blue nitriles to be almost impossible to put on (big hands) and so when I need disposable gloves, I have to use the cream ones. The hospitals supply both. Maybe it was the mortuary attendants from the mortuary van who wore cream coloured gloves? They helped the police gently roll the body onto the stretcher then place her in the exact position in which she was found - although I can't see that being so strenuous that it would tear a glove...

 

[Couldbe]

Link for photos of GBC face scratches, body scratches:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/pho...on-gerard-badenclays-body-20130320-2geuu.html

...... if he couldn't tell the truth about how they occurred, they sure needed some 'creative' explaining, because he would know their exact origin.

Shame that they have probably healed to a point where 'out of sight/out of mind' for him.

 

[Total]

Fantastic work Makara and Ccat and great sleuthing!

It is interesting that at 06.55 GBC rings OW he subsequently takes a call from NGB at 06.56 that lasts over 2 minutes. Also whilst GBC is being interviewed by QPS he NGB calls EGB at least 10 times.

The tip of the glove has me intrigued as well. I wonder if they were found in the arm of the jumper coinciding with the hand that did most of the damage on his face? I would not put it past him to put something on the hand or fingernails to assist in the decomposition or destruction of anything that may have identified him (bleach on the fingers, rubber tips over them to stop them making a mess in the car and accelerate the process)?

 

[Total]

Sorry, and meant to add that at no point on the 20th do EGB or NGB try to ring Allison's phone. Very unusual.

 

[Fuskier]

Yes, it seems weird if Allison was already home but for a group work type text it wouldn't seem completely strange to be included in even if you're there with the sender. I just wonder if there is something in that text and then the next group text not long after Allison is not included that seems meaningful to me. NBC is in on all the messages though - creepy!

Exactly!