Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[DrWatson]

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/04/30/1226342/954549-body-recovered.jpg

Don't know if I did this properly, but in this photo it looks like police are wearing white gloves.. (What do you think Makara?)

At least one of them is - the one standing on our right as we look at the picture. They would be the creamy-coloured type, that come in a similar Kleenex-style box as the blue nitrile ones do. And as I suggested earlier, some people prefer one type over the other type. I can't get a decent set of the blue nitrile ones on, for example - I have to wear the cream coloured ones. So I'd be surprised if they didn't provide both types.

 

[DrWatson]

And it was reported (sorry dont know how to link) The Australian 2 May 2012
That police found a mobile phone SIM card and a pair of gloves near were Baden -Clays body was found.
But they said this afternoon the SIM card was not related.
No mention of gloves but I guess some testing would have had to take place.

No mention, either, as to what sort of gloves... Rubber? Disposable? Gardening? Washing-up? Etc etc... Could have been anything. I haven't seen anything in any of the reports or documents referring to these finds any further.

 

[Amee]

Career Goals: To continue study in psychology and practice either organisational or clinical psychology then eventually open her own psychology clinic.

Allison kept a book of goals. If she wanted to be a particular weight, she would write it down in the book and detail how she was going to achieve it.

Top of her life goals was to make her children happy. She could have been anyone. She chose to be a mum.

"She loved her children," Geoff says. "She doted over the children."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/tears-for-girl-next-door/story-fn6ck45n-1226347238522

 

[whatif?]

It would be interesting to know if the gloves found by searchers had a finger tip missing. If they were able to get DNA from them and it matched GBC, then game over!
IMO

 

[Cozzie7]

1st post, been lurking here for a couple of weeks now. I don't know why but this case has me really obsessed, since day one. Glad to find I'm not the only one giving it so much thought.

Just a couple of comments and questions.

Re the cream coloured glove, don't most households have these on hand these days? I use them when I'm cooking with chillies.

I am really ignorant re the law and police procedures. Can someone tell me whether it is known whether the children were questioned about that night? Would a parent/guardian have to consent to a child talking to police?

Reading the forensic accountant's report was fascinating. Have I interpreted it correctly when I say that it appears that GBC had done his best to try and swindle Allison' sister out of her share of the Gold Coast rental property?

Sorry if these questions have been answered before but I have only just managed to get through the first thread, so I have a lot of reading to do before I am caught up. Lucky this site is blocked at work or I wouldn't get a thing done.

 

[Trooper]

Was TM close with the BC's at the office, how long did they work together and was it during the affair? I'm wondering if Allison had a good relationship with her parents in law.
I'd love to know how the Dickies really felt about the BC's.

Wasnt there a photo of Toni and Gerard together at Nigelaines home?

When Toni first started there, Elaine was the receptionist... and certainly they were there , NigelandElaine, as sales persons on commission, when the big firing of Toni because Allison had found out happened.. everybody was called in for the big announcement..

and in the bail objection by the prosecutor, one of the reasons the Police objected to bail was that Nigel and Elaine were covertly assisting Gerard in maintaining contact with Toni after Allison went missing. .. found out due to lawful intecepts of phones. I cannot imagine how the Dickies felt about that.


But Gerard was adamant , in his interview that morning, that his family knew nothing about either his previous affair, or the resumption of it. He wanted them removed from the room while he spoke , mumbled about it.. ditto with Constable Ash.. definately requested that the affair wasnt mentioned to Nigel or Olivia. Implied that it was a secret from them , and only known to Allison and the other person.

So if its to be believed that the BadenClay crew knew nothing about it, they certainly knew by the time the police put listeners on their phones..pretty damn quickly, I'd expect, and accepted and covertly assisted Gerard in maintaining contact.

which is a bit odd, isnt it?.... lets look at that scenario as if it was real.. your sons wife is missing, suddenly you find out he's been having an affair with one of your fellow employees, who was sacked back on Oct 12th because your missing daughter in law found out.. and now you are covertly assisting your son, even though its been made quite clear by the police that things are not quite right, and in fact, the daughter in law is still missing all this time, still hasnt been found or turned up. And the story that morning is you know nothing about it. Nothing. (Gerard speaking)

But you covertly assist your son in contacting this woman. Covertly, in this context, means they were not instructed by the police to do this.. they did it off their own bat.. .. they did it in a manner to assit Gerard in fooling the police.

 

[SydneySleuth]

Wasnt there a photo of Toni and Gerard together at Nigelaines home?

When Toni first started there, Elaine was the receptionist... and certainly they were there , NigelandElaine, as sales persons on commission, when the big firing of Toni because Allison had found out happened.. everybody was called in for the big announcement..

and in the bail objection by the prosecutor, one of the reasons the Police objected to bail was that Nigel and Elaine were covertly assisting Gerard in maintaining contact with Toni after Allison went missing. .. found out due to lawful intecepts of phones. I cannot imagine how the Dickies felt


But Gerard was adamant , in his interview that morning, that his family knew nothing about either his previous affair, or the resumption of it. He wanted them removed from the room while he spoke , mumbled about it.. ditto with Constable Ash.. definately requested that the affair wasnt mentioned to Nigel or Olivia. Implied that it was a secret from them , and only known to Allison and the other person.

So if its to be believed that the BadenClay crew knew nothing about it, they certainly knew by the time the police put listeners on their phones..pretty damn quickly, I'd expect, and accepted and covertly assisted Gerard in maintaining contact.

which is a bit odd, isnt it?.... lets look at that scenario as if it was real.. your sons wife is missing, suddenly you find out he's been having an affair with one of your fellow employees, who was sacked back on Oct 12th because your missing daughter in law found out.. and now you are covertly assisting your son, even though its been made quite clear by the police that things are not quite right, and in fact, the daughter in law is still missing all this time, still hasnt been found or turned up. And the story that morning is you know nothing about it. Nothing. (Gerard speaking)

But you covertly assist your son in contacting this woman. Covertly, in this context, means they were not instructed by the police to do this.. they did it off their own bat.. .. they did it in a manner to assit Gerard in fooling the police.

Great points Trooper. I find it very odd behaviour. If N&E had any decency they wouldn't get involved in Gerard's affair, particularly knowing that their daughter in law had been murdered. It's quite disgusting. Regardless of whether they believe their son is innocent, they should have said "enough is enough".

 

[spratsmum]

Re the glove

I wonder if it hasn't been used in cleaning, the jumper has been taken off when it got warmer (Brisbane weather around April can be chilly enough for a few hours in the morning to need a jumper. Sothe jumper has been pulled off and casually thrown somewhere and the piece of glove has stayed inside the sleeve. The next time the jumper is used it is put on very careful and the glove tip isn't noticed. I wonder if the said jumper didn't belong to the cleaner Nigel, and was in the back of the car and the easiest thing to use of April 19.

 

[spratsmum]

I think the BC probably need to see there granddaughters, whatever we think of him they have virtually lost a son and daughter-in-law, there other children live out of Brisbane.

 

[Couldbe]

agree but it should be that each and everyone of the BC s had nothing to do with it and also none of them know anything at all , otherwise they can go to hell with their darling gbc too

and i have grave doubts about that too

Squizzey1 - I was thinking that because there was no show of support from GBC's Parents at the Committal, that they had become acquainted with the reality of his likely involvement in Allison's murder, and were also disgusted with what has become public knowledge about his affairs, etc. True, if they are still supporting him, knowing that he is lying through his teeth, then ...............

 

[marlywings]

More of GBC's lies...

Detective MCLEOD's statement...
14th June, 2012

11. As part of the missing person investigation the defendant was asked to provide a formal statement. The defendant obtained legal advice and declined to provide this statement to police.

13. Whilst proceeding to Indooroopilly Station, the defendant was involved in a single vehicle traffic crash into a concrete pylon. There were no brake marks at the sccne and the defendant refused to answer questions in relation to the cause of the crash.

24th April, 2012

Yet in his "little bit hurt" video....GBC said, "I've spoken to the police about everything" "I've tried to help the police as much as I can, we all have, with everything we've got so"

 

[marlywings]

A very interesting research paper if anyone's interested in reading it...

From...2008 School of Criminal Justice, University at Albany
Journal of Criminal Justice and Popular Culture by Cynthia Lewis.

Monstrous Arrogance: Husbands Who Choose Murder Over Divorce.

A couple of extracts...

Another of Winger's traits also recurs in similar cases: his exploitation of his loss to pose as the real victim, bereft of his spouse and parenting on his own.

They want out of the marriage without the social strain or expense of a divorce.

At a press conference that he himself (the killer) had assembled at his house. He was giving this really exaggerated boo-hoo" says Captain Peavy, "And then, all of a sudden, in the same breath, he says, "we also run one of the most successful real estate offices in the Lakewood-Long Beach area, so, when in town, stop by and see us".
He turned this grieving husband thing into an infomercial". At this same event, he also hit on a camera woman.

http://www.albany.edu/scj/jcjpc/vol15is1/Lewis.pdf

 

[DrWatson]

Oh dear, Marly - that sounds awfully familiar...

 

[Trooper]

. I find it very odd behaviour. If N&E had any decency they wouldn't get involved in Gerard's affair, particularly knowing that their daughter in law had been murdered. It's quite disgusting. Regardless of whether they believe their son is innocent, they should have said "enough is enough".

And if Olivia is to be believed.... there were 10 people in that small house for a few weeks.. Nige, Elaine, Olivia, Gerard, Allisons 3 children and Olivias 3 children. * they were all going to be at Allisons home that Friday night for a sleepover*... and Olivia didnt hear a thing about the covert assistance to Gerard in contacting Toni....and Nige and Elaine kept it secret from Olivia....and 6 curious children.

But Olivia ' knows' Gerard is innocent..


If that is the calibre of the personel in Army Intelligence, ( Olivias former career) and an officer, no less, then god help us, we're doomed. Thank god we at least have a Navy and an Airforce.

 

[Trooper]

Because, you would think , you would truly conclude, that Olivia.. being a former officer in the Army Intelligence Corps, would say to Mum and Dad and Gerard, dont say anything idiotic on the phone. ...dont even use these phones now, its 100% that its tapped.

but no.. !!

 

[Trooper]

It is the relentless stupidity that makes my teeth grind about all the people who have flitted and jiggled around this hateful vicious event.. ..

I dont even feel sorry for those three partners, why they didnt get a CPA in to go over the accounts instead of letting the thing run into the gutter and beyond , the <modsnip> Charles Tarbey, the <modsnip> Flegg, the <modsnip> Olivia, the <modsnip> Elder Baden Clays, the <modsnip> Toni, the other three friends of Gerards that lent him money, Im glad to think they'll never get it back, the <modsnip> Pastor up in FNQ, and dont tell me he didnt know about Gerards grubby antics, the nutso bimbo's who fell all over Gerard...

ok. I'll get my hat and coat, now. I might suddenly break into amatuer verse about them all any minute..

MARLY!

 

[DrWatson]

You certainly have a way with adjectives there, Trooper - love it

And isn't "military intelligence" the ultimate oxymoron anyway?

 

[Couldbe]

It is the relentless stupidity that makes my teeth grind about all the people who have flitted and jiggled around this hateful vicious event.. ..

I dont even feel sorry for those three partners, why they didnt get a CPA in to go over the accounts instead of letting the thing run into the gutter and beyond , the <modsnip> Charles Tarbey, the <modsnip> Flegg, the <modsnip> Olivia, the <modsnip> Elder Baden Clays, the <modsnip> Toni, the other three friends of Gerards that lent him money, Im glad to think they'll never get it back, the <modsnip> Pastor up in FNQ, and dont tell me he didnt know about Gerards grubby antics, the nutso bimbo's who fell all over Gerard...

ok. I'll get my hat and coat, now. I might suddenly break into amatuer verse about them all any minute..

MARLY!

Trooper - you have put into words what many many of us have felt is an absurd set of circumstances that "offends our collective conscience". Surely, surely we won't have to put up with it as a movie or the like. The idiocy of it all just has our heads shaking.

 

[Timmy]

It is the relentless stupidity that makes my teeth grind about all the people who have flitted and jiggled around this hateful vicious event.. ..

I dont even feel sorry for those three partners, why they didnt get a CPA in to go over the accounts instead of letting the thing run into the gutter and beyond , the <modsnip> Charles Tarbey, the <modsnip> Flegg, the <modsnip> Olivia, the <modsnip> Elder Baden Clays, the <modsnip> Toni, the other three friends of Gerards that lent him money, Im glad to think they'll never get it back, the <modsnip> Pastor up in FNQ, and dont tell me he didnt know about Gerards grubby antics, the nutso bimbo's who fell all over Gerard...

ok. I'll get my hat and coat, now. I might suddenly break into amatuer verse about them all any minute..

MARLY!

Hehehe!

 

[marlywings]

After reading Phillip Broom's statement, I have to wonder if there may have been a chance GBC would lose custody of the girls if he had divorced Allison.

In the first paragraph of the paper I posted above....I think quite a few of the "negative consequences of divorce" could be applied to him.

What possesses a husband to kill his wife when divorce is an available
alternative? That is the question at the core of the following essay surveying about a
dozen cases concerning husbands who have been convicted of killing their wives and
whose motive appears to be that of avoiding at least one negative consequence of
divorce, whether alimony, loss of child custody, or damage to reputation and standing in
the community. Numerous shared elements among these compelling stories limn a
profile of this specific kind of spousal murder, which is calculated, dispassionate, and
abetted by a husband&#8217;s ability to dehumanize his wife

http://www.albany.edu/scj/jcjpc/vol15is1/Lewis.pdf