Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[SydneySleuth]

It is the relentless stupidity that makes my teeth grind about all the people who have flitted and jiggled around this hateful vicious event.. ..

I dont even feel sorry for those three partners, why they didnt get a CPA in to go over the accounts instead of letting the thing run into the gutter and beyond , the <modsnip> Charles Tarbey, the <modsnip> Flegg, the <modsnip> Olivia, the <modsnip> Elder Baden Clays, the <modsnip> Toni, the other three friends of Gerards that lent him money, Im glad to think they'll never get it back, the <modsnip> Pastor up in FNQ, and dont tell me he didnt know about Gerards grubby antics, the nutso bimbo's who fell all over Gerard...

ok. I'll get my hat and coat, now. I might suddenly break into amatuer verse about them all any minute..

MARLY!

I still can't believe he had everyone fooled for so long. <modsnip>

 

[Aunty]

More of GBC's lies...

Detective MCLEOD's statement...
14th June, 2012

11. As part of the missing person investigation the defendant was asked to provide a formal statement. The defendant obtained legal advice and declined to provide this statement to police.

13. Whilst proceeding to Indooroopilly Station, the defendant was involved in a single vehicle traffic crash into a concrete pylon. There were no brake marks at the sccne and the defendant refused to answer questions in relation to the cause of the crash.

24th April, 2012

Yet in his "little bit hurt" video....GBC said, "I've spoken to the police about everything" "I've tried to help the police as much as I can, we all have, with everything we've got so"

Marlywings
It's so important to spotlight his lies, each and everyone of them.
Thanks, and keep it up, because this type of sub criminal psychopath is not often exposed, let alone caught, and we all need to recognise and understand how devious and dangerous they are.
:furious:

 

[linette]

Trooper - you have put into words what many many of us have felt is an absurd set of circumstances that "offends our collective conscience". Surely, surely we won't have to put up with it as a movie or the like. The idiocy of it all just has our heads shaking.

I think if this was made into a movie nobody would believe it could possibly be a true story. You'd have to be silly to even write a fictional movie with all of the characters being so... well, I'll say silly.

 

[ollijack]

Makara - thank you - great analysis!!!:cheer: that is exactly what I think he barely took a breath away from his phone that morning - he was merely setting the scene to play out the heartbroken husband role.

Those phone calls additionally ping all from the same tower until 6:46am so it is not impossible but highly unlikely he is driving around.

A very interesting research paper if anyone's interested in reading it...

From...2008 School of Criminal Justice, University at Albany
Journal of Criminal Justice and Popular Culture by Cynthia Lewis.

Monstrous Arrogance: Husbands Who Choose Murder Over Divorce.

A couple of extracts...

Another of Winger's traits also recurs in similar cases: his exploitation of his loss to pose as the real victim, bereft of his spouse and parenting on his own.

They want out of the marriage without the social strain or expense of a divorce.

At a press conference that he himself (the killer) had assembled at his house. He was giving this really exaggerated boo-hoo" says Captain Peavy, "And then, all of a sudden, in the same breath, he says, "we also run one of the most successful real estate offices in the Lakewood-Long Beach area, so, when in town, stop by and see us".
He turned this grieving husband thing into an infomercial". At this same event, he also hit on a camera woman.

http://www.albany.edu/scj/jcjpc/vol15is1/Lewis.pdf

My goodness. That's horrific !!!!

 

[Groundedgirl]

And if Olivia is to be believed.... there were 10 people in that small house for a few weeks.. Nige, Elaine, Olivia, Gerard, Allisons 3 children and Olivias 3 children. * they were all going to be at Allisons home that Friday night for a sleepover*... and Olivia didnt hear a thing about the covert assistance to Gerard in contacting Toni....and Nige and Elaine kept it secret from Olivia....and 6 curious children.

But Olivia ' knows' Gerard is innocent..


If that is the calibre of the personel in Army Intelligence, ( Olivias former career) and an officer, no less, then god help us, we're doomed. Thank god we at least have a Navy and an Airforce.

She is also the core educator of her children? Scary..

 

[marlywings]

Folks please cut the derogatory name calling. It is pointless...you'll only have your posts removed.

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[ollijack]

I don't think it's very classy to 'knock' our military intelligence
They keep us and our country safe
And are fine people





By Doc: And isn't "military intelligence" the ultimate oxymoron anyway?

 

[Makara]

From Dr. Milne's autopsy report I've noted a few items of interest in regard to the glove tip. IMO there was only a very small opportunity for a policeman and/or a QFRS officer to lose the tip of their glove and for it to become entangled in the jumper Allison was wearing when her body was recovered from Kholo Creek.

I've included relevant excerpts from Dr. Milne's autopsy report below and they bring me to the conclusion that the tip of the rubber glove was entangled in Allison's jumper prior to her body being dumped. IMO the jumper was not interfered with at all during the recovery of Allison's body and was only removed at the morgue. So how could the tip of the glove have found its way inside her jumper? Allison's body was wrapped in a blue tarpaulin while still under the bridge. (Yes, the tip of the glove may have broken off at this point but once again, how did it find its way inside her jumper?) There were two police officers and one QFRS officer on hand to prepare Allison's body for retrieval onto the stretcher. After the initial examination of Allison's body by Dr. Milne on the bridge, her body, wrapped again in the tarpaulin , was placed and secured in a body bag in the position it was currently laying in at the time.

1. Dr. Milne states in the report that access to the body was difficult and two police officers were winched down. He did not go down to the body. The two police officers, with the assistance of the QFRS officer, rolled the body onto a tarpaulin, placed it on a stretcher and winched it up onto the bridge at approximately 4:55pm. The extrication of the body appeared to have been conducted very carefully and without significantly affecting the position of the limbs or clothing.

2. The body was examined on the bridge under a marquee with lighting provided by the QPS. The body was clothed in what appeared to be a jacket which was up around the head and neck region. The hands were entangled within this garment. As this garment could potentially have been a ligature, he did not remove it from the neck or remove the hands from the garment. He advised police officers and the undertaker that the body should be moved in the position it was currently laying in.

The body was lodged in the mortuary at Queensland Health Forensic and Scientific Services at 1908hrs.

3. External Examination:

The body is received in a sealed body bag. A Qld. Police Service morgue tag is attached to the body bag. The seal of the body bag is broken to commence the post-mortem examination. The body is wrapped in a blue tarpaulin.

Most of the light coloured jumper was inside-out and the hands remained within the sleeves. It was somewhat twisted and wrapped around the neck to some degree. Both the collar and waistband regions of the jumper are in the neck region. The unusual position of the jumper may have occurred after death with the movement of the body. It cannot be excluded that it may have been used as a ligature.

4. OTHER MATERIAL:

As the jumper was being examined a fingertip of a cream coloured rubber glove fell out. It is not clear whether this was present within the jumper, or may represent some contamination at the scene. It was not present as a result of contamination within the mortuary.

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[Makara]

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/04/30/1226342/954549-body-recovered.jpg

Don't know if I did this properly, but in this photo it looks like police are wearing white gloves.. (What do you think Makara?)

Thanks DunnoZo. Yes the police are wearing white gloves in that pic. Did these police officers attend to Allison's body after she was lifted from the creek? It's my opinion that they didn't.

 

[sosocurious]

Because, you would think , you would truly conclude, that Olivia.. being a former officer in the Army Intelligence Corps, would say to Mum and Dad and Gerard, dont say anything idiotic on the phone. ...dont even use these phones now, its 100% that its tapped.

but no.. !!

Dangerously dumb comes to mind when I think of GBC.
Maybe OW did suggest this and GBC's communication with TMH had an agenda.
As I have said previously IMO GBC was just too eager to get the affair out there.
* It was minutes before he told Cont Ash
* he elaborated further with Sgt Jackson and Curtis - affair with business colleague - she left --(not I sacked her) IMO he was begging them to ask WHO!
* TMH staement No: 4 on the 25 May
GBC says " I don't know what happened here"
"I know you haven't done anything as you must know in your heart that I haven't done anything"
GBC was arrested 13 June I think - when did TMH get a lawyer.

 

[LadyBird1]

From Dr. Milne's autopsy report I've noted a few items of interest in regard to the glove tip. IMO there was only a very small opportunity for a policeman and/or a QFRS officer to lose the tip of their glove and for it to become entangled in the jumper Allison was wearing when her body was recovered from Kholo Creek.

I've included relevant excerpts from Dr. Milne's autopsy report below and they bring me to the conclusion that the tip of the rubber glove was entangled in Allison's jumper prior to her body being dumped. IMO the jumper was not interfered with at all during the recovery of Allison's body and was only removed at the morgue. So how could the tip of the glove have found its way inside her jumper? Allison's body was wrapped in a blue tarpaulin while still under the bridge. (Yes, the tip of the glove may have broken off at this point but once again, how did it find its way inside her jumper?) There were two police officers and one QFRS officer on hand to prepare Allison's body for retrieval onto the stretcher. After the initial examination of Allison's body by Dr. Milne on the bridge, her body, wrapped again in the tarpaulin , was placed and secured in a body bag in the position it was currently laying in at the time.

1. Dr. Milne states in the report that access to the body was difficult and two police officers were winched down. He did not go down to the body. The two police officers, with the assistance of the QFRS officer, rolled the body onto a tarpaulin, placed it on a stretcher and winched it up onto the bridge at approximately 4:55pm. The extrication of the body appeared to have been conducted very carefully and without significantly affecting the position of the limbs or clothing.

2. The body was examined on the bridge under a marquee with lighting provided by the QPS. The body was clothed in what appeared to be a jacket which was up around the head and neck region. The hands were entangled within this garment. As this garment could potentially have been a ligature, he did not remove it from the neck or remove the hands from the garment. He advised police officers and the undertaker that the body should be moved in the position it was currently laying in.

The body was lodged in the mortuary at Queensland Health Forensic and Scientific Services at 1908hrs.

3. External Examination:

The body is received in a sealed body bag. A Qld. Police Service morgue tag is attached to the body bag. The seal of the body bag is broken to commence the post-mortem examination. The body is wrapped in a blue tarpaulin.

Most of the light coloured jumper was inside-out and the hands remained within the sleeves. It was somewhat twisted and wrapped around the neck to some degree. Both the collar and waistband regions of the jumper are in the neck region. The unusual position of the jumper may have occurred after death with the movement of the body. It cannot be excluded that it may have been used as a ligature.

4. OTHER MATERIAL:

As the jumper was being examined a fingertip of a cream coloured rubber glove fell out. It is not clear whether this was present within the jumper, or may represent some contamination at the scene. It was not present as a result of contamination within the mortuary.

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Thank you Makara. Very good work. Especially with the details. The glove fingertip was not present as a result of contamination within the mortuary.
And as I mentioned earlier, had it been accidently placed due to Crime Scene people; ie those who facilitated the recovery of her body: an Incident report should/would have been forthcoming.
That leaves only one explanation: The glove fingertip went down when Allison went down.

 

[DrWatson]

I don't think it's very classy to 'knock' our military intelligence
They keep us and our country safe
And are fine people





By Doc: And isn't "military intelligence" the ultimate oxymoron anyway?

Sorry Olli - it was a joke It's the standard example of an oxymoron, but used in jest.

And Makara - you make some good points from that autopsy report, but it still says

"It is not clear whether this was present within the jumper, or may represent some contamination at the scene."

-

which was the point I was trying to make a few posts ago. They couldn't say that it was INSIDE the jumper, especially as the jumper was almost all turned inside-out.

Most of the light coloured jumper was inside-out

All we know is that a finger tip from a rubber glove, cream in colour, was tangled up in the jumper somehow.

Now I DO take your point that there would appear to have been few opportunities for that to happen at the scene, although not impossible. And if it HAD happened there, eg while lifting the body (or even ripping the tip off the finger while zipping or unzipping the body bag) I'm sure it would have been documented as an incident. If for no other reason than the good old Workplace Health and Safety aspect, for any potential claims of problems due to contamination.

Having said all that, I'm leaning fairly heavily - in the lack of anything in the forensic reports we've seen so far about missing glove tips - towards the same conclusion that you reach. In other words, that the perpetrator used gloves for at least some part of the exercise - perhaps just the disposal part - and a finger tip came off during the lifting or dragging of the body. Which is probably how the jumper came to be up over the head with the arms still in it, too.

Purely as an experiment, I just tried to pull my other half along the kitchen floor, as she had a jumper on, and it was all too easy after I'd told her to play dead and relax totally, to pull her arms upwards bringing the jumper with them. She ended up on the kitchen floor with her jumper in almost exactly the same configuration as described in that autopsy report.

She also thought i was mad...! I told her it was all in the name of science, truth, and justice!

But I wasn't wearing rubber gloves - that may have seemed a bit TOO spooky.

 

[Trooper]

Dangerously dumb comes to mind when I think of GBC.
Maybe OW did suggest this and GBC's communication with TMH had an agenda.
As I have said previously IMO GBC was just too eager to get the affair out there.
* It was minutes before he told Cont Ash
* he elaborated further with Sgt Jackson and Curtis - affair with business colleague - she left --(not I sacked her) IMO he was begging them to ask WHO!

*edited by me*

Gerard was extraordinarily blase and up front about the Affair MARK 1..the one that ended 'last year'... the one he an Allison were trying to build trust about, like the counsellor told them.. that one, yes, Gerard was mouthy about that.. .. . but the Affair Mark 2,, the resumed affair that was still going on 10 hours before he spoke with Constable Ash, Sgts Curtis and Jackson and detectives, that was buried deep.. Bruce Overland, the daily calls, the occasional sexual encounters, the secret meetings, the false identities, the secret emails, the ultimatum delivered just that evening prior to Allison calmly watching the tv., oh no.. that wasnt mentioned..

 

[linette]

As I posted a week or so ago, and someone else posted the same this morning... it is possible that the fingertip of the glove was already in the jumper before Allison even put it on. You know how sometimes we just throw a jumper somewhere and pick it up and wear it again another day?
At the end of a day when I do take a jumper off I sometimes wonder how whatever it is could have stayed in there all day without falling out. I've even worn a jumper with a kids sock stuck in the sleeve all day, so it would be very easy not to notice a glove tip.

Just wondering are the glove tips a bit staticy... y'know, static electricity? Would it cling to the jumper?

 

[linette]

Dangerously dumb comes to mind when I think of GBC.
Maybe OW did suggest this and GBC's communication with TMH had an agenda.
As I have said previously IMO GBC was just too eager to get the affair out there.
* It was minutes before he told Cont Ash
* he elaborated further with Sgt Jackson and Curtis - affair with business colleague - she left --(not I sacked her) IMO he was begging them to ask WHO!

*edited by me*

Gerard was extraordinarily blase and up front about the Affair MARK 1..the one that ended 'last year'... the one he an Allison were trying to build trust about, like the counsellor told them.. that one, yes, Gerard was mouthy about that.. .. . but the Affair Mark 2,, the resumed affair that was still going on 10 hours before he spoke with Constable Ash, Sgts Curtis and Jackson and detectives, that was buried deep.. Bruce Overland, the daily calls, the occasional sexual encounters, the secret meetings, the false identities, the secret emails, the ultimatum delivered just that evening prior to Allison calmly watching the tv., oh no.. that wasnt mentioned..

He probably didn't mention it because he didn't want to get in trouble for something that BRUCE had done. Remember, GBC had finished his affair so obviously it was that naughty boy Bruce doing all of the other stuff.

 

[Trooper]

it is a bit astonishing that Olivia, her being formerly in Military Intel, she may have made the tea, I dont know, didnt say to Gerard, in passing, as one does,.... 'dont use your phones, Gerard.. and particularly, dont use your intenet, of any sort, anywhere'... and Gerard says, ..' why, Livvy , what on earth are you on about?...' and Olivia says patiently....' well. Gerard.. those calls, those pixels can be traced'.. and Gerard says..' Livvy!!. trace MY calls?? I'm the pres of the Chamber of Commerce, Kenmore, Im running a million dollar debt business, I 'm a golfer, a player, a well respected identity in the community, I m a ... '...

 

[Trooper]

So Olivia tries to tell Nige and Elaine.. ' Dad.. dont be ringing Toni on Gerards behalf.. .. not a good idea.. '.. and Nige says... 'Livvy, please.. your not in Military Intel now, you are merely a '... and Olivia says..' Dad...those calls can be traced, you know. . They are probably listening right now'... and Nige says..'.. Olivia, Olivia.. people dont trace MY calls, they trace skivers calls, bookies calls, that sort of thing.. I'm a former financial consultant, an Anglicare marriage counsellor, a BadenClay, , and a.. oh.. yes, Toni?? Yes, now Gerard wants you to make sure that you .......'..

you see where I'm goin.

 

[marlywings]

As I posted a week or so ago, and someone else posted the same this morning... it is possible that the fingertip of the glove was already in the jumper before Allison even put it on. You know how sometimes we just throw a jumper somewhere and pick it up and wear it again another day?
At the end of a day when I do take a jumper off I sometimes wonder how whatever it is could have stayed in there all day without falling out. I've even worn a jumper with a kids sock stuck in the sleeve all day, so it would be very easy not to notice a glove tip.

Just wondering are the glove tips a bit staticy... y'know, static electricity? Would it cling to the jumper?

Your post made me wonder if Allison had that same jumper on when she was at hairdresser....they always wear gloves when doing hair colours. Could it have come from the hairdresser??

 

[Timmy]

As I posted a week or so ago, and someone else posted the same this morning... it is possible that the fingertip of the glove was already in the jumper before Allison even put it on. You know how sometimes we just throw a jumper somewhere and pick it up and wear it again another day?
At the end of a day when I do take a jumper off I sometimes wonder how whatever it is could have stayed in there all day without falling out. I've even worn a jumper with a kids sock stuck in the sleeve all day, so it would be very easy not to notice a glove tip.

Just wondering are the glove tips a bit staticy... y'know, static electricity? Would it cling to the jumper?

Lol. I can't stop laughing about the kid's sock! My daughter came home the other day from working all day and when she went to have a shower a pair of knickers fell out of the leg of the leg ins that she had on! Too funny!

 

[linette]

Lol. I can't stop laughing about the kid's sock! My daughter came home the other day from working all day and when she went to have a shower a pair of knickers fell out of the leg of the leg ins that she had on! Too funny!

Yes, I believe that. Wonder if people noticed a bulge on her leg at work? lol