Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Aunty]

After reading Phillip Broom's statement, I have to wonder if there may have been a chance GBC would lose custody of the girls if he had divorced Allison.

In the first paragraph of the paper I posted above....I think quite a few of the "negative consequences of divorce" could be applied to him.

What possesses a husband to kill his wife when divorce is an available
alternative? That is the question at the core of the following essay surveying about a
dozen cases concerning husbands who have been convicted of killing their wives and
whose motive appears to be that of avoiding at least one negative consequence of
divorce, whether alimony, loss of child custody, or damage to reputation and standing in
the community. Numerous shared elements among these compelling stories limn a
profile of this specific kind of spousal murder, which is calculated, dispassionate, and
abetted by a husband’s ability to dehumanize his wife

http://www.albany.edu/scj/jcjpc/vol15is1/Lewis.pdf

Thanks, thats such a great paper. The best I've read. It has really opened my eyes, and I'm feeling so annoyed, and upset.
He's a bloody textbook case and this paper helps to expose him completely.
SOAB :banghead:

 

[breno84]

I don't want to play devils advocate here, but in all honesty....
That glove tip could have come from ANYWHERE upstream of where Allison was found. Yes, it was inside the jumper. Throw a crab trap in a creek for 10 days and see how much random crap you'll pull up (Inside) it. We must remember that we're dealing with a body that has been exposed to 10 days of the elements, tidal flows and possible other interferences. Same deal with the plant species found in her hair, Well of course she was exposed to them, that would be like dusting the house for prints and saying 'Oh wow, Gbc left his prints on the shower door' well, duh. Please guys don't think I'm being a smartass here I'm just looking at things as if I were a jury member. I just don't see these sort of things holding a candle of evidence, and the prosecution have far better things up their sleeves. JMO

 

[LadyBird1]

Your post made me wonder if Allison had that same jumper on when she was at hairdresser....they always wear gloves when doing hair colours. Could it have come from the hairdresser??

The hairdresser would KNOW if her glove tip fell off whilst doing Alllison's hair.
Silly question I know, but in all known history: Has a hairdresser ever lost a glove tip whilst in the middle of a hairdo? And if so, left said glove tip upon the client?

 

[marlywings]

I don't want to play devils advocate here, but in all honesty....
That glove tip could have come from ANYWHERE upstream of where Allison was found. Yes, it was inside the jumper. Throw a crab trap in a creek for 10 days and see how much random crap you'll pull up (Inside) it. We must remember that we're dealing with a body that has been exposed to 10 days of the elements, tidal flows and possible other interferences. Same deal with the plant species found in her hair, Well of course she was exposed to them, that would be like dusting the house for prints and saying 'Oh wow, Gbc left his prints on the shower door' well, duh. Please guys don't think I'm being a smartass here I'm just looking at things as if I were a jury member. I just don't see these sort of things holding a candle of evidence, and the prosecution have far better things up their sleeves. JMO

It's all good breno...while it's true the glove tip could have come from anywhere, if folks still choose to discuss it that's fine too. There's not many points or aspects of the case which haven't been discussed repeatedly on here. Everything is analysed then discussed again...that's the way we roll on here.

If some members choose not to read certain topics then the scroll bar is always your friend

 

[frustrated detective]

I am convinced that chronic lying is in itself a form of violence against close relationships and society as a whole.

When someone experiences this sort of lying it is almost impossible to comprehend; it goes against the very reason for speech itself, the communication of truth.

I think that 's why we tend to believe in the liar even after they have proven over and over that they can't be trusted. I have a 25-years-long experience of someone like this ...

Recently I asked this person if he knew where my mother's ashes were scattered (the person inherited a third share of my mother's estate some years ago even though not a blood relative) as he had never showed any interest in what happened to her ashes even though the first part of her will made a clear request about them.

He gave a long story about where the ashes were scattered and, if I had not scattered them myself in a completely different place, I would have believed him as it sounded so convincing! When I pointed this out to him there was no explanation, apology or remorse ... Nothing. Complete indifference as to the seriousness of such a false communication. Business as usual, in fact.

What I mean is that lying is just a 'normal' way of speaking to some people, and with those types it is necessary to adopt a policy of not believing ANYTHING that comes from their mouth without proof.

 

[breno84]

Thanks Marly. I meant no offence to anyone and I am a firm believer that there are no silly ideas in a brainstorm. Rock on sleuths!! :rocker:

 

[marlywings]

The hairdresser would KNOW if her glove tip fell off whilst doing Alllison's hair.
Silly question I know, but in all known history: Has a hairdresser ever lost a glove tip whilst in the middle of a hairdo? And if so, left said glove tip upon the client?

Maybe not in the middle of a hairdo...but then again they have darn sharp scissors. Tip of a glove could quite easily get caught up in a towel.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

*edited by me*



He probably didn't mention it because he didn't want to get in trouble for something that BRUCE had done. Remember, GBC had finished his affair so obviously it was that naughty boy Bruce doing all of the other stuff.

Maybe he will use Schizophrenia as his defence GBC innocent Bruce guilty


Moo

 

[Aunty]

Snipped by me sorry

Oh come on Doc... You have to get her to scratch your face with her fingernails first, before you start dragging her along the kitchen floor ? :what: It might hurt a little bit, but you'll be ok [/B]

 

[DrWatson]

Snipped by me sorry

Oh come on Doc... You have to get her to scratch your face with her fingernails first, before you start dragging her along the kitchen floor ? :what: It might hurt a little bit, but you'll be ok [/B]

LOL Aunty I appreciate the humour, as I did at the time - I could hardly stop laughing as she slid backwards along the kitchen floor, her head disappearing up her jumper! When we'd scraped her about a metre along the floor, I commented that it was a good job that the idea hadn't struck me in the middle of Myers with me acting on impulse!

But yes - the scratches would have added authenticity, but there are limits to what a bloke will do in the name of science, truth and justice. Batman I ain't..!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Bazinga]

Just re the gloves - thanks for those photos Makara - yes indeed, most of the Crime Scene folks wore the blue nitrile gloves. However, it wouldn't be unusual for some people to wear the cream coloured ones. Personally, I find the blue nitriles to be almost impossible to put on (big hands) and so when I need disposable gloves, I have to use the cream ones. The hospitals supply both. Maybe it was the mortuary attendants from the mortuary van who wore cream coloured gloves? They helped the police gently roll the body onto the stretcher then place her in the exact position in which she was found - although I can't see that being so strenuous that it would tear a glove...

Doc, in your very handsome picture of yourself your hand looks small/medium! I guess photos can be deceiving. :giggle:

 

[sosocurious]

This may already have been discussed -if so my apologies.

During Gerard interview with Sgt's Curtis and Jackson he does not make any reference to the children being in the house on the evening of the 19th eg
We/I/Al put the kids to bed at ?? time.
But he makes reference on more than one occassion about the intended sleepover on the evening of the 20th.
I just find it odd that he included the children in so many parts of the texts and interview from 6.20 am onward but not a mention prior.

 

[Thinking]

Have any locals noticed that the area around the bridge seems to have been cleared in the last few days? I drove over it yesterday and it looks much better - clearer and less overgrown.

 

[LadyBird1]

Have any locals noticed that the area around the bridge seems to have been cleared in the last few days? I drove over it yesterday and it looks much better - clearer and less overgrown.

Perhaps cleared in readiness for the proposed walk to Kholo Bridge on or about 20th April?

 

[DrWatson]

Doc, in your very handsome picture of yourself your hand looks small/medium! I guess photos can be deceiving. :giggle:

LOL Bazinga I'm a lot bigger in real life than my avatar (Jude Law) suggests, and have to take an Extra Large size in those disposables. And they're still very tight and hard to get on!

 

[Trooper]

Gerards Forced Error.

From Gerards first call to the police, 7.15am it has always appeared to me to be where the whole 'plan' fell apart.. .it was either too early, if she went for a morning walk or too late if she went for an evening walk. Up until then, he is texting Allison , setting a scene, up now , girls are up, making lunches, where are you, and so on. .some unforseen thing then forces Gerard to start ad libbing, on the fly, and the whole thing starts to unravel. The timing is now all over the place, and out of his control.

In his interview that morning, he says, he knew Allison wanted to be leaving by 7am ,... the seminar began at 8.30am in the city.

at 7.09, he rings Kate Rankin.. he makes a significant slip to Sgt Curtis about this..

BadenClay*....' she was meeting Kate at the office at 8am, which I didnt actually know, but I knew she wanted to leave here at 7am..'

He finds out from Kate Rankin at 7.09, that Allison was going to meet Kate at 8am in the office.. he didnt know this bit of Kate and Allisons plan that morning until 7.09am approx..that is, he didnt know last night or this morning about this detail in the arrangement, but he does now .. assuming 2 mins at the most for this call, he is off and setting a whole other scene.. 4 minutes later, ' I am driving up (indistinct) street , etc.. '

Something about Allison and the arrangement to meet Kate at the office at 8am, which he didnt know before , but now knows at 7.09 am has set a mighty cat among the pigeons, and he has to , or is compelled to, make that 7.15am call to the police.

 

[Trooper]

Kate Rankin did have an interview with the police, but her statement wasnt used for the Bail or Commital Hearing ... I assume its among those remaining 400 approx statements, ...

 

[LadyBird1]

Gerards Forced Error.

From Gerards first call to the police, 7.15am it has always appeared to me to be where the whole 'plan' fell apart.. .it was either too early, if she went for a morning walk or too late if she went for an evening walk. Up until then, he is texting Allison , setting a scene, up now , girls are up, making lunches, where are you, and so on. .some unforseen thing then forces Gerard to start ad libbing, on the fly, and the whole thing starts to unravel. The timing is now all over the place, and out of his control.

In his interview that morning, he says, he knew Allison wanted to be leaving by 7am ,... the seminar began at 8.30am in the city.

at 7.09, he rings Kate Rankin.. he makes a significant slip to Sgt Curtis about this..

BadenClay*....' she was meeting Kate at the office at 8am, which I didnt actually know, but I knew she wanted to leave here at 7am..'

He finds out from Kate Rankin at 7.09, that Allison was going to meet Kate at 8am in the office.. he didnt know this bit of Kate and Allisons plan that morning until 7.09am approx..that is, he didnt know last night or this morning about this detail in the arrangement, but he does now .. assuming 2 mins at the most for this call, he is off and setting a whole other scene.. 4 minutes later, ' I am driving up (indistinct) street , etc.. '

Something about Allison and the arrangement to meet Kate at the office at 8am, which he didnt know before , but now knows at 7.09 am has set a mighty cat among the pigeons, and he has to , or is compelled to, make that 7.15am call to the police.

Trooper, A significant slip would be putting it mildly IMO.
He started to say he called Kate at 10 past ni... , when all of a sudden it dawned on him, that the police were there at 08.45am.
Uh oh, might need to re-time that..... 10 past seven.....

 

[bearbear]

Gerards Forced Error.

From Gerards first call to the police, 7.15am it has always appeared to me to be where the whole 'plan' fell apart.. .it was either too early, if she went for a morning walk or too late if she went for an evening walk. Up until then, he is texting Allison , setting a scene, up now , girls are up, making lunches, where are you, and so on. .some unforseen thing then forces Gerard to start ad libbing, on the fly, and the whole thing starts to unravel. The timing is now all over the place, and out of his control.

In his interview that morning, he says, he knew Allison wanted to be leaving by 7am ,... the seminar began at 8.30am in the city.

at 7.09, he rings Kate Rankin.. he makes a significant slip to Sgt Curtis about this..

BadenClay*....' she was meeting Kate at the office at 8am, which I didnt actually know, but I knew she wanted to leave here at 7am..'

He finds out from Kate Rankin at 7.09, that Allison was going to meet Kate at 8am in the office.. he didnt know this bit of Kate and Allisons plan that morning until 7.09am approx..that is, he didnt know last night or this morning about this detail in the arrangement, but he does now .. assuming 2 mins at the most for this call, he is off and setting a whole other scene.. 4 minutes later, ' I am driving up (indistinct) street , etc.. '

Something about Allison and the arrangement to meet Kate at the office at 8am, which he didnt know before , but now knows at 7.09 am has set a mighty cat among the pigeons, and he has to , or is compelled to, make that 7.15am call to the police.

it was obviously a big deal finding this out at such a crucial time and still niggling at him so much, he needed to vent to police!
was his plan to finish a clean and tidy at home and take off to work early, and expect a call from kate around 9am asking where allison was? he could fluff around pretending to look for her, thought she had left when he came to work? she may be shopping, gone for a walk etc. alarm bells neednt have gone off until after school,when he gets home and her car is still there, then he could have rung police, much more feasable time frame.
just wondering though, the girls, if at the bcs sleepover, had allison planned to see them before leaving, had one of them cried and wanted to be brought home early to see her?

 

[Total]

I have spent some time looking at the phone records, and even though I cannot excatly put my finger on it there are a few things that make me think. One is the office phone, the bill is for from the 22nd of March through to the 22nd of April. The phone seems to divert mainly to GBCs phone quite frequently until the 19th of April. There is only one call on the 20th to his phone and that is the last entry.