Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[ollijack]

I decided to go back to the start, to thread 1 and re read everything.
I came across this.....so much I've forgotten..
these wonderful parent's and police...heartbreaking...
AND the absence of GBC.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226336572342

 

[Trooper]

What I am saying, badly, perhaps, is that Oliva, and Nigel,, by being at the location where the murder is stated by the prosecution to have happened, and being there when the Crime squad were called in to that location, * Allisons home* , being there alone with Gerard before the police first responded, they are part of the body of the crime. Both will have to testify, on Gerards behalf, as to when they got to that house. Why they went there. Who called them. When. What the person said when they were summoned. Its Gerards story.

Neither of the lived there, it isnt their abode, they had to come from somewhere else to be there, by some form of transport, on public roads, etc.. It isnt Gerards story that Nige and Olivia stayed the night or the week, or dropped from the sky, or materialised out of the ground. They are an intrinsic part of Gerards narrative as to his innocence. It could be said they are the only intrinsic part upon which his innocent claim hangs.

Its on these grounds that I believe they will take the stand as defence witnesses, but that leaves both of them open as it does to every other defence witness of examination by the prosecutor. It's difficult for me to see them not testifying. Its a huge huge hole in Gerards timeline without the both of them, they are crucial to it.

 

[Zim]

What I am saying, badly, perhaps, is that Oliva, and Nigel,, by being at the location where the murder is stated by the prosecution to have happened, and being there when the Crime squad were called in to that location, * Allisons home* , being there alone with Gerard before the police first responded, they are part of the body of the crime. Both will have to testify, on Gerards behalf, as to when they got to that house. Why they went there. Who called them. When. What the person said when they were summoned. Its Gerards story.

Neither of the lived there, it isnt their abode, they had to come from somewhere else to be there, by some form of transport, on public roads, etc.. It isnt Gerards story that Nige and Olivia stayed the night or the week, or dropped from the sky, or materialised out of the ground. They are an intrinsic part of Gerards narrative as to his innocence. It could be said they are the only intrinsic part upon which his innocent claim hangs.

Its on these grounds that I believe they will take the stand as defence witnesses, but that leaves both of them open as it does to every other defence witness of examination by the prosecutor. It's difficult for me to see them not testifying. Its a huge huge hole in Gerards timeline without the both of them, they are crucial to it.

Bingo Trooper !
His story is pathetic actually.

In actual fact she could have been picked up by K before GBC awoke from his 'deep sleeping'

If I went for a walk at 6am (if eva ?!) and got home at 7.15am to find my in laws rallied and 000 called my other half would be need the help of Constable Ash....just sayin'.

 

[Couldbe]

What I am saying, badly, perhaps, is that Oliva, and Nigel,, by being at the location where the murder is stated by the prosecution to have happened, and being there when the Crime squad were called in to that location, * Allisons home* , being there alone with Gerard before the police first responded, they are part of the body of the crime. Both will have to testify, on Gerards behalf, as to when they got to that house. Why they went there. Who called them. When. What the person said when they were summoned. Its Gerards story.

Neither of the lived there, it isnt their abode, they had to come from somewhere else to be there, by some form of transport, on public roads, etc.. It isnt Gerards story that Nige and Olivia stayed the night or the week, or dropped from the sky, or materialised out of the ground. They are an intrinsic part of Gerards narrative as to his innocence. It could be said they are the only intrinsic part upon which his innocent claim hangs.

Its on these grounds that I believe they will take the stand as defence witnesses, but that leaves both of them open as it does to every other defence witness of examination by the prosecutor. It's difficult for me to see them not testifying. Its a huge huge hole in Gerards timeline without the both of them, they are crucial to it.

I guess Trooper, that there is much suspicion that they could be 'accessories after the fact' / accomplices for that matter (at least here on Websleuths). That must create a conundrum ...... especially as they are probably innocent and are not on trial. Truthful answers would probably be borne out by calling witnesses to those answers (like neighbours who may have seen them coming/going from the BC Seniors' residence. JMO

 

[Trooper]

It's a radical thought that both Nigel and Olivia, waking up separately, ( one hopes).. at a different location to Allisons home... and then both, unknown to each other, decide to , say, go for a morning stroll.. both go down Gerards street, unknown to each other, both drop in co incidentally for a early morning cuppa, one before the other, to find all hell has broken loose at Gerards home, his face chunked up, the kids looking for Mummy's mobile phone, Gerard putting on his cufflinks, making lunches, counting out Allisons walking clobber, phoning phoning phoning, texting, texting, rushing, scratching his caterpillar bite, anxiously waiting for Allison to come back from her morning stroll.. anxiously waiting for Toni's scream of rage when Allison turns up at the seminar.

No.

Equally radical for Nige and Olivia to evaporate into the ether, Olivia to her prayer circle up in Townsville, Nige behind the gates at his house, and they both let Gerard swing in the wind. It would look a bit odd to a jury if they didnt testify for Gerards defence. If after all the strident claims of Olivia in public, and Niges refusal to make any statement to the police, they then refuse to defend their son and brother at his murder / interfering with a corpse trial,... no. that scenario has whiskers to me.

So I've biro'd in Nigel and Olivia.. just for starters.

 

[Trooper]

Elaine , ditto. she got calls before the police were called. And her calls from Gerard were after the QPS say the murder took place. During those in between hours 10pm to 4am. of Allisons death and before the 7.15am call re Allison reported missing..

Elaine is now biro'd in .

All theoretical of course, between now and the trial , Gerard could plead guilty.

Thats ok, too. When he is sentenced the judge will lay out in excrutiating detail just what he is pleading guilty to and all the aspects of the crime will be detailed, and weight given in regard to sentencing according to all those elements of the crime, motive , means and method.

 

[linette]

Whoever the defence calls to testify is not simply allowed to testify for the defence then step down, unless the prosecution says so. that is. ...once you take the stand, in defence of Gerard, whatever your testimony is about, you are subject to examination by the prosecution. If the prosecution wants to. And the reverse is equally true.. whoever testifies for the prosecution, is examined by the defence. Or can be. it isnt compulsory but it is usual.

My thoughts are that Nigel is almost a shoe in as a witness for the defence....and Olivia.. they being there when the when the missing person business was upgraded to a homicide investigation. It was at the house that morning that Sgt Jackson called in the Crime squad.

Im curious as to who else is pencilled in as a defence witness. Gerard taking the stand in his own defence.. this is dicey, and I won't call that one either way.

So I guess the prosecution have to know in advance what the BC's were doing before they cross examine them so they can prove they are lying. If NBC were to say he was in a certain place etc, then the prosecution could come back with "But we have evidence to the contrary here, showing you were.....". That sort of thing?

 

[Couldbe]

So I guess the prosecution have to know in advance what the BC's were doing before they cross examine them so they can prove they are lying. If NBC were to say he was in a certain place etc, then the prosecution could come back with "But we have evidence to the contrary here, showing you were.....". That sort of thing?

JMO Linette but Police, like they door-knocked all around the Brookfield area surrounding GBC and Allison's home ..... would have done a bit of door-knocking in Durness Street where the BC Senior residence is and in the vicinity of the home of Will Truter (told Police he heard screams) .... that is inbetween the two residences. Hopefully, they took the opportunity to also ask questions about any coming/going of vehicles connected with the BC Senior home.

 

[Trooper]

certainly. If the prosecution has that empirical evidence. .. then its up to the jury, and some directions from the bench, possibly, as to whom the jury is to place the weight of their deliberations upon. Nige just saying he is in a certain place,.. or empirical evidence that clearly shows he was in another place.

If for example, his car is in another place , other to what Nige says it is, its up to Nige to explain convinvingly who is driving it, and why. If it wasnt him. He would probably have to produce this other driver, or have a signed stat dec that he reported it stolen. And a signed stat dec that it was subsequently returned to him. As he still has that car.

Or, if there is clear CCTV that Nige is driving another car... Why? who s car? where from? where to?

I am leaving out of my potential defence list of witnesses the other brother, Adam. He hasnt said a word, and from the forensic accountants teasing outline, it appears he lent Gerard a cool ten thou , never got it back and Nigel had to take that debt over, give the money back to Adam and his wife, and absorb that amount into the already hefty sum that Gerard owed Nigel. That is, Adam couldnt, or wouldnt wait for Gerard to cough the money back. He retrieved his money, one of the very few lucky ones, and moved on. And it appears he was in Canada at the time of Allisons murder. ..

So I am not even pencilling him in .

 

[linette]

certainly. If the prosecution has that empirical evidence. .. then its up to the jury, and some directions from the bench, possibly, as to whom the jury is to place the weight of their deliberations upon. Nige just saying he is in a certain place,.. or empirical evidence that clearly shows he was in another place.

If for example, his car is in another place , other to what Nige says it is, its up to Nige to explain convinvingly who is driving it, and why. If it wasnt him. He would probably have to produce this other driver, or have a signed stat dec that he reported it stolen. And a signed stat dec that it was subsequently returned to him. As he still has that car.

Or, if there is clear CCTV that Nige is driving another car... Why? who s car? where from? where to?

I am leaving out of my potential defence list of witnesses the other brother, Adam. He hasnt said a word, and from the forensic accountants teasing outline, it appears he lent Gerard a cool ten thou , never got it back and Nigel had to take that debt over, give the money back to Adam and his wife, and absorb that amount into the already hefty sum that Gerard owed Nigel. That is, Adam couldnt, or wouldnt wait for Gerard to cough the money back. He retrieved his money, one of the very few lucky ones, and moved on. And it appears he was in Canada at the time of Allisons murder. ..

So I am not even pencilling him in .

I get a feeling that Adam doesn't want any part of it. Can't blame him for that. I think he probably has a strong opinion on whether or not GBC is guilty.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

A bit outside the square but I wonder what would happen if ...IF one of the senior BCs was suffering a terminal illness , and planning to make a dying confession . ( "the truth will come out") I know it's a big stretch to imagine them confessing to anything... But ...small price ...gerard walks ...claims insurance ... Gets the kids back ...business as usual . For what it's worth I wish them the best of health

 

[LadyBird1]

A bit outside the square but I wonder what would happen if ...IF one of the senior BCs was suffering a terminal illness , and planning to make a dying confession . ( "the truth will come out") I know it's a big stretch to imagine them confessing to anything... But ...small price ...gerard walks ...claims insurance ... Gets the kids back ...business as usual . For what it's worth I wish them the best of health

G's severely gouged face? His scratched torso...And his desire to get his hands on the insurance money ASAP.... His desire to have everything "ramped up"....

 

[Flinders]

Does anybody recognised the lady in the green shirt at the front of the police station after GBC had an interview with police? Wearing a green shirt and looking like SH. At about 33 seconds.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=pEM0PHhdXqo&desktop_uri=/watch?v=pEM0PHhdXqo

Channel Ten news. Titled missing mother.

Link isn't working.

~ I don't know how to post youtube links. I googled TenQueenslandNews "missing mother". And it is the video that shows the SES workers wearing their orange clothes during the search.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEM0PHhdXqo

Apr 29, 2012 - Uploaded by TenQueenslandNews
Missing mother. TenQueenslandNews·2,457 videos ... Watch Later Cops renew missing mother ...


Moo

 

[Chief of Funtime]

Not saying he didn't do it . But it's a possible way out . They are desperate . iMO

 

[Makara]

Does anybody recognised the lady in the green shirt at the front of the police station after GBC had an interview with police? Wearing a green shirt and looking like SH. At about 33 seconds.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=pEM0PHhdXqo&desktop_uri=/watch?v=pEM0PHhdXqo

Channel Ten news. Titled missing mother.

It seems to be a dead link Flinders.

 

[Flinders]

It seems to be a dead link Flinders.

I have edited my post with a new link.

 

[Maigret]

Does she have anything to do with it - she looks a little lost

 

[Makara]

I have edited my post with a new link.

Thanks Flinders and good pick-up. I've attached a sceen capture from the video. My first impression is no, it's not SH but then again maybe it is. Who knows, but why would she be at the police station after GBC was interviewed? She didn't climb into the car with them and didn't seem to make her way to her own vehicle. The woman in the green top may have been associated with the media that was covering the story. She may have just been a stickybeak hanging around to see what's going on.

Click image to enlarge.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

G's severely gouged face? His scratched torso...And his desire to get his hands on the insurance money ASAP.... His desire to have everything "ramped up"....

It could be said he went berserk when he found out a family member had 'done away' with his precious wife. He had a fight with them and was scratched up, but agreed to cover up or them... It's ridiculous, but I'd put nothing past him.

 

[Phantom's Diana]

Was TM 's phone records available for purchase ?