Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[Bazinga]

Forgive my cynicism, but I suspect he only went to the counsellor to shut Allison up, and he only played along with the counsellor to shut HER up. I'd be amazed if he ever had ANY intention of doing all those "exercises" the counsellor suggested in her naivety. It would appear to have been a recipe for the disaster that did actually occur - especially if Allison (a) took the counsellor seriously, and (b) she thought that GBC was too.

Yes I'd say that's right too. Playing along and probably frustrated by all these women who dare try to tell him what to do. I don't think he planned to do the exercises but he might have used it to say "times up - that's 15 minutes, stop talking" to Allison. Clearly GBC was not participating in the counselling with any sincerity. It sounds like a crazy suggestion for homework from the counsellor and especially as he needed such convincing but I was just suggesting that this is used by some psychologists as an approach when the continuous questions and grief are causing difficulty.
I don't think she should have suggested this given the little she could have known so far, plus the convincing required. I think naive and a bit of conflict having seen Allison first and probably hearing all about her pain and feeling for her.

 

[possumheart]

I just thought I would remind those aren't aware, or have forgotten ...
Alison's hair appointment was to fix up a hair colour that she wasn't happy with. It was the second time that she had been back to try to have it corrected, and the appointment was complimentary. It seemed she was a bit huffy about it.(from affidavits)
That the appointment was timed the night before the conference was possibly partially coincidence.

I apologise :blushing:
I have just read over a bail document and Allison DID have her hair done for the conference. She had been dissatisfied with a previous colour I had read in another document I can't find at the moment, and I think, but I am not positive that that last visit to the salon was complementary because of her previous dissatisfaction.

 

[Couldbe]

As an 'opportunist' (sometimes creating his own opportunities), he had become used to acting on opportunities in general.

With years of putting Allison down and then, apparently, verbally abusing ....... leading to physically abusing, the next step would be for GBC to imagine actually 'doing away with her'.
A thought that he probably had come to entertain in his head more often ...... which would be a solution to his problems.

I would say that this was an ' opportunity for a solution' that presented itself, and he took it.

He has never shown any remorse for the crime he has committed (mind he has convinced himself that he is innocent .... due to his habit of always blaming others).

...... so, if it had been an 'accident', and he didn't have in him to commit the deed, one would think that he might have wavered in his 'going forward / business as usual.

...... the vision had now been acted on, and he felt better ...... and the 'rewards' were to be had; apply for Insurance Policy payout / Super, etc.; no strings attached if he wished to be unconditionally available for the females.

I think that it had been a vision in his head for some time ..... and the opportunity presented itself ...... all he had to do was 'act normal' until it all blew over.

 

[Trooper]

that counselling person could have considered even for a moment that Gerard was lying thru his teeth about this knockabout with Toni being over , and advised Al to simply leave for work one morning, taking the children to school on the way . saying nothing and very soon , and not come back. Because if he didn't want Alison or anyone talking about it, pound to a penny it was still operative. If it took an hour to convince him, re the 15 min vent , that's a red flag as plain as day.

 

[LadyBird1]

Just taking a peek at the Simon Gittany events.
There are so many things this case has in common with Allison's.

Both cases are about as far away from the Chamberlain story as a story could possibly be.
Repeat, far far away. They have NOTHING in common.

Some similarities:
The Dickie Family and the Harnum Family:
The family of the deceased, the Dickie family and the Harnum family, both show extreme Graciousness. (Even the face of overwhelming grief)
Both families did all possible to Assist investigating people.
Both families show Restraint even in the face of vile terrible circumstances.
Both families show Compassion for others in similar circumstances.

The Others:
The families of the accused in both cases also show remarkable similarities.
Vulgar Crass Ignorant and Rude are just some words that spring to mind.
Neither family did anything to assist investigations. Worse, they refused to cooperate.
Both families appear to like media attention. Some even flaunt it. "Flaunt" To exhibit ostentatiously or shamelessly.
Both families (the Gittany family and the BC Clan) to date, appear to have shown no remorse or empathy or anything at all for the terrible demise of the deceased.
(Though I see SG is trying pretty hard to squeeze out a tear today.)

 

[Humdinger]

Hi guys!:seeya: Never posted on this thread before but have been following the case in MSM. Will now follow the case on-thread!

I just wanted to second what Makara is saying re PND. You make such a valuable point there re general antidepressants not being the optimal treatment. It is indeed hormonal.

Another thing that is very misunderstood by the general public regarding PND is that it is SERIOUS. It's not about being a 'little bit weepy' and emotional. A lot of women suffering PND have severe depression and it is not uncommon for psychosis to kick in. It upsets me on behalf of women with PND that it's still perceived as kind of trite 'woman's problem' but not a genuine mental health issue. :twocents:

Yay Isis, great to have you in here!!! Your posts and insights are always excellent!

 

[LadyBird1]

Should have added to that last post;
Regarding the Other Families:
Both show Contempt for and some Knowledge of the Law. And how to get around it.
Circumvent, evade, dodge, bypass. Not sure if the right word but it means catch me if you can and then prove it beyond doubt.
That word Dupers Delight has sprung back to mind. Hahaha. (Smug laugh)

 

[LadyBird1]

And another trait of the Others:
Some members appear to THRIVE on publicity and Media attention. Even seek it out!

 

[Total]

Planned or unplanned, I lean toward unplanned most of the time.
IMO GBC was under some real pressure on that Thursday evening.

* Phone call to TMH about 5pm during which he informed her ABC was attending the conference.
* Three days prior had told Carmel Richie he wanted to build a future with ABC.
* Told TMH he would be with her unconditionally.
* ABC had questions -- some of which TMH could answer. eg did you feel bad he was married?

These two women were going to be in the same room all day and GBC had no control over how the day would transpire and what would be revealed.

Spot on ssc, if he were to play his cards right he would almost be able to plead temporary insanity due to the stress he must have been been under due to the amount of lies he told. What he did not foresee was that at some point there would be a convergence. Allison and TM at the same conference for a day, with no filters, no distractions, just two women wronged by the same man (albeit to differing degrees). He thought he could play the field and the possibility of him not being in control flipped him.

 

[BrissyLass]

the evidence so far revealed is but the tip of the iceberg....just enough to prevent him from getting bail, ( and that was where at the bail hearing, the defence of suicide didn't fly, hence, no bail ),,, this hearing was merely to adjudicate the significance, if any, of Carmel Ritchies stuff and the autopsy findings, but only a small part of those findings, so far,,, hang in there for the whole panoply to unfold. .. Not forgetting that Toni is a prosecution witness, that hasn't changed and while she isn't pleased to be that, that is the reality of her situation , and why is she a prosecution witness?? because she has more to gain being that than being a defence witness. How was she edged into being a witness for the Prosecution??.... lets wait and see.

True and they are all very good points Trooper, i think the length of time, the time waiting for this trial to be begin is bothering me, making me impatient, making me over think the whole sad and sordid mess :tantrum:

And yes, Toni IS a witness for the prosecution, correct .... that will be a very interesting day in the court room, I bet it will be standing room only that day

 

[Couldbe]

True and they are all very good points Trooper, i think the length of time, the time waiting for this trial to be begin is bothering me, making me impatient, making me over think the whole sad and sordid mess :tantrum:

And yes, Toni IS a witness for the prosecution, correct .... that will be a very interesting day in the court room, I bet it will be standing room only that day

How did that come about, that Toni is a witness for the prosecution? Does that mean that she is the one who has been given prosecutional 'immunity'? Would this also mean that she would be giving evidence to support the charges against GBC? Surely not.

 

[Sor Juana]

I don't understand why divorcing Alison was not an option. yet murdering her was... apart from the profit motive..yet collecting that money was so fraught...so wildly improbable and so hedged with consequences FAR worse that what he was facing>>>?? sure he may have been spivvied up in a suit and tie today, but he has to drop that at the court and don the prison garb, and go back to remand, and the lights out at 9pm, the two slices of white bread and pressed meat for dinner, the no mobile phone, and he was a man who lived on his phone, the no conjugal visits, the other neighbors in the cell etc...

Trooper, divorce would be a poor option for a narcissist because he would gain nothing from it. His ultimate goal was to get out of his marriage with some money, which meant murder. For this reason, I believe, he went to meet Ms. Ritchie so that she could put it in her records that his intentions were to move on as a couple. He calculated it in his little brain that the police will investigate Allison's disappearance properly and they will get access to those records eventually. Just my opinion.

 

[BrissyLass]

How did that come about, that Toni is a witness for the prosecution? Does that mean that she is the one who has been given prosecutional 'immunity'? Would this also mean that she would be giving evidence to support the charges against GBC? Surely not.

Could be "yes" to question one and "yes" to question 2 and question 3 ... :twocents:

Nothing has been publicly said about that except that Toni is on the prosecution's witness list, so as Trooper says, we have to wait for the whole panoply to unfold

Why am I so bad at waiting :tantrum::tantrum:

 

[Couldbe]

Could be "yes" to question one and "yes" to question 2 and question 3 ... :twocents:

Nothing has been publicly said about that except that Toni is on the prosecution's witness list, so as Trooper says, we have to wait for the whole panoply to unfold

Why am I so bad at waiting :tantrum::tantrum:

... but TM has shown herself to tell lies to Detectives ... until they catch her out.
A credible witness one would think she wouldn't be!
A whole panoply sure must be going to rock the socks of us all.
... and GBC goes on in his own little world doing what he always does .... acting normal. To him, and his family, we are the players in the soap opera.
..... such a real life soap opera.

 

[sosocurious]

Could be "yes" to question one and "yes" to question 2 and question 3 ... :twocents:

Nothing has been publicly said about that except that Toni is on the prosecution's witness list, so as Trooper says, we have to wait for the whole panoply to unfold

Why am I so bad at waiting :tantrum::tantrum:

TMH was telling the truth about the alias Bruce Overland. (email records prove this).
No reason at this point to doubt that GBC told her that he would come to her a free man by July 1. (given the significance of the date --- sooo much money due to be paid.

What I doubt is that TMH had not seen GBC for 3 weeks prior to 19th April.

IMO until TMH found out about GBC's other women she would have done and said anything to protect her GG.

IMO eventually TMH had to face reality (probably with a hefty push) and protect herself.

IMO TMH phones and computer records would/could have some significant and valuable information for the LE.

I am waiting in anticipation for TMH's day in court when she will appear as a witness for the prosecution.

GBC's cheeks will be popping and tongue rolling me thinks!!

 

[Makara]

TMH was telling the truth about the alias Bruce Overland. (email records prove this).
No reason at this point to doubt that GBC told her that he would come to her a free man by July 1. (given the significance of the date --- sooo much money due to be paid.

What I doubt is that TMH had not seen GBC for 3 weeks prior to 19th April.

IMO until TMH found out about GBC's other women she would have done and said anything to protect her GG.

IMO eventually TMH had to face reality (probably with a hefty push) and protect herself.

IMO TMH phones and computer records would/could have some significant and valuable information for the LE.

I am waiting in anticipation for TMH's day in court when she will appear as a witness for the prosecution.

GBC's cheeks will be popping and tongue rolling me thinks!!

Yes, TM told the truth but she lied by omission. And that is her blunder. She is a snake and I can't wait till Danny Boyle gets hold of her.

 

[sosocurious]

Yes, TM told the truth but she lied by omission. And that is her blunder. She is a snake and I can't wait till Danny Boyle gets hold of her.

Oh Yeah !!

 

[Couldbe]

Yes, TM told the truth but she lied by omission. And that is her blunder. She is a snake and I can't wait till Danny Boyle gets hold of her.

I think that she will be trying to keep a foot in both camps ....... just in case he gets off, or is out in a relatively short period of time. JMO

 

[alioop]

Trooper, divorce would be a poor option for a narcissist because he would gain nothing from it. His ultimate goal was to get out of his marriage with some money, which meant murder. For this reason, I believe, he went to meet Ms. Ritchie so that she could put it in her records that his intentions were to move on as a couple. He calculated it in his little brain that the police will investigate Allison's disappearance properly and they will get access to those records eventually. Just my opinion.

I think that if he was using the counselling session as a show of being a good husband trying to work on his marriage for the purposes of covering up murder plans that he would have a done a better job. For eg showing remorse and empathy towards Allison and allowing himself to be easily convinced to be subjected to Allisons 15 min sessions sharing her pain. Why battle with Carmel about not regressing if he had a plan at that stage to murder her. Would have been easier to say, yes Carmel that is a great idea and I just want to help Allison move forward and if that is what she needs, I will do it because I love her so much!

 

[Makara]

I think that if he was using the counselling session as a show of being a good husband trying to work on his marriage for the purposes of covering up murder plans that he would have a done a better job. For eg showing remorse and empathy towards Allison and allowing himself to be easily convinced to be subjected to Allisons 15 min sessions sharing her pain. Why battle with Carmel about not regressing if he had a plan at that stage to murder her. Would have been easier to say, yes Carmel that is a great idea and I just want to help Allison move forward and if that is what she needs, I will do it because I love her so much!

Absolutely! Spot on Ali.