Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight - General discussion #5

[ckia2013]

I just downloaded the book and for those who are curious as to what it said about Charles Ramsey (I certainly was) - I'll try give the you quick version.

It listed and detailed his 3 arrests for domestic violence and prison time for such, also mentioned his arrests for other things (drugs and receiving stolen goods) and implied that he is a flawed hero.

How the rescue was described in the book went like this.... (Amanda's version regarding the door isn't told, just Aurora Marti and Charles Ramsey's versions.)

Aurora Marti, the lady from across the street saw Amanda and couldn't understand her, she calls her neighbor Angelo who also goes across the street. They work out the door needs to be kicked in and start kicking. Charles Ramsey arrives and helps kick the last bit of the door in. Amanda comes out. (Ramsey's initial interviews on what happened are also written out.)

Amanda rolls under the door with J in her arms.

There are the 2 calls to the police.

Ramsey and Cordero and [AMANDA'S DAUGHTER] waited with Amanda next to them.

The police arrived within 15 minutes

Amanda was asked if anyone else was in the house, she said yes, Gina DeJesus and another girl.

The police searched basement and first floor then got to the top floor and Michelle came out of her room and shouts you saved us and hugged 2 officers. Then, Gina came to the doorway of her room and came out of her room.

-------------------------------------------------

Well, back to reading for me Any questions just ask and I'll try look up the part you are interested in.

The Charles Ramsey part was about how I imagined it to go. There was that video of him walking around afterwards with Amanda. I think she chatted to him as his english was better than the others perhaps. The 15 minute wait for the police would have been excruciating for Amanda. I thought at the time they claimed they were there in 2 minutes?

Who said 15 minutes? Aurora Marti, Charles Ramsey, or the author? I'm gonna go ahead and believe the CPD on this one. It would be an impressive conspiracy if all the public officials were lying!

Regarding your two minutes reference, I believe the first time I heard that was when CLE public safety director Marty Flask said it at a press conference on May 7th (VIDEO).

"Cleveland Police Communications Center received two calls: One from a neighbor to the house on Seymour Avenue and the second call from Amanda Berry, one of the missing women. An incident was created in our communications center at 5:52:33. A police car was dispatched at 5:52:49, and the first police responders arrived on the scene just under two minutes later at 5:54:07. By 5:58 the responding officers have identified Gina DeJesus and Amanda Berry as having been located at the home. At one minute later, they announced that they had also recovered safely Michelle Knight."
- Marty Flask​

Thank you so much for sharing info about the book! Hope you keep updating us =)

 

[MidwesternBelle]

It said that for me too.... until I signed in and Amazon realized I was American =(

I had the same issue as well. What a bummer, I would like to read it.

 

[singers]

The author states 15 minutes, he also says that Charles talks to Amanda and "the minutes tick by." i don't know when he starts his 15 minutes from though. But he interviewed people on that street and i guess this is the time frame they gave, perhaps it's from the time she started banging on the door?. It's an interesting thing for him to say given we know the police say they were there in 2 minutes. The book made it sound to me that the police took 15 minutes. It says "The cavalry arrived within 15 minutes."

I think that there is a possibility police could be lying and covered up their mistake. Imagine how it would have looked for them if the first call hadn't been believed and they took 15 minutes. Can you imagine the public outcry, especially given the terrible sounding operator who spoke to Amanda.
At the time i once suggested that there may have been an earlier call that wasn't believed, hence the problem "getting through" that Charles had and the reason 2 ppl ended up ringing. But that was pure speculation on my part. The attitude of the operator talking to Amanda doesn't fill you with confidence.

 

[singers]

another tidbit, Castro allowed the women outside 2 or 3 times into the backyard for fresh air. Heavily disguised in wigs and make up.

 

[ckia2013]

The author states 15 minutes, he also says that Charles talks to Amanda and "the minutes tick by." i don't know when he starts his 15 minutes from though. But he interviewed people on that street and i guess this is the time frame they gave, perhaps it's from the time she started banging on the door?. It's an interesting thing for him to say given we know the police say they were there in 2 minutes. The book made it sound to me that the police took 15 minutes. It says "The cavalry arrived within 15 minutes."

I think that there is a possibility police could be lying and covered up their mistake. Imagine how it would have looked for them if the first call hadn't been believed and they took 15 minutes. Can you imagine the public outcry, especially given the terrible sounding operator who spoke to Amanda.
At the time i once suggested that there may have been an earlier call that wasn't believed, hence the problem "getting through" that Charles had and the reason 2 ppl ended up ringing. But that was pure speculation on my part. The attitude of the operator talking to Amanda doesn't fill you with confidence.

Listen to the dispatch tapes: http://www.clevelandkidnappings.com/files

(scroll down to the 3rd mp3 file)

 

[Yellow]

You just MADE MY NIGHT! I know I may sound like a bad person here, but it makes me happy to hear that the author spends a significant amount of time debunking the ever-changing story! How did your gf order the book? I thought only UK residents could download the e-version! If I can get this book tonight, the FAQ will have to be put on hold =)

As far as addressing Charles Ramsey on the site goes, ABSOLUTELY. It makes me sick that this man is STILL receiving donations!! I've upset people on here, we've upset people on twitter, and we've upset people on YouTube-- so we're going to address the issue *VERY* delicately on CKIA. Instead of explicitly stating that we think Ramsey is a con-artist, we will focus more on the corroborated stories...... but we will definitely [gently] point out the inconsistencies in Ramsey's story. You're right that most of the media have only hinted around Ramsey's lack of credibility. I wonder whether the backlash received by the local news station that leaked his police record (WEWS) has something to do with it. There have a few hints re: Ramsey's character that are so strong that I don't even know whether "hints" is the right word anymore. One of my favorites is Ed Gallek's coverage regarding Ramsey's threat to have the random man that was filming him killed. The very end of that segment is priceless. 19 Action News definitely takes risks that the other local news stations will not.

Edit: This is not the video I was referring to, but Gallek still closes with a decent Ramsey dig. I think the vid below is one that aired a few hours before the one I liked-- which seems to have disappeared off the face of the internet =(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvqlw67TwsA

Whew, thanks for backing me up on the JB thing. That gives it insta-credibility =) You've been so remarkably on top of the media surrounding this story! Can't tell you how many times I've logged onto WS to break news..... only to find out that you had posted it hours earlier, lol. Thank you so very much for your kind words. I didn't know you had seen any of our social media stuff, but I'm really glad you have (please keep in mind while reading CKIA posts on social media that it is not always I-- the one who posts on WS-- that is writing it!)

All of your posts have been absolutely amazing. Whenever I see that you were the last one who posted, I'm like yaaay, it was CazzBa... this is gonna be a good post!! :skip:

P.S. lol, you should re-read your post... there is one ironic mistake that I know you'll want to edit! =)

May I ask, what is the real story about Ramsey? Is it just that he was there, saw the commotion, made the 911 call? Or did he not even help the girls out of the house physically like he described?

 

[singers]

May I ask, what is the real story about Ramsey? Is it just that he was there, saw the commotion, made the 911 call? Or did he not even help the girls out of the house physically like he described?

i just read that chapter and I don't think the author debunked Ramsey's story.

I think until Amanda tells her side of the story, it's just Marti and Angelos story against Ramseys.

Best we can do is listen to both and try to use commonsense and come up with something.
On youtube Marti says Ramsey was never even at the door at all and came over after Amanda came out. Ramsey said he was there trying to get the door open and kicked it in. The author of the book says Ramsey was 3rd on the scene and kicked the door in.

Because of the shock, Amanda may not even remember... so we are still waiting to find the truth of this story imo.

 

[singers]

Listen to the dispatch tapes: http://www.clevelandkidnappings.com/files

(scroll down to the 3rd mp3 file)

Perhaps the author means that it was 15 minutes from the time she first went downstairs till the police arrived. If so, it was badly worded.

Perhaps it took 10 minutes to break the door down?

Charles Ramsey did say that the operators wouldn't believe him and told him to stop playing on the line. That's what makes me wonder if there were earlier calls not made public.

 

[ckia2013]

Perhaps the author means that it was 15 minutes from the time she first went downstairs till the police arrived. If so, it was badly worded.

Perhaps it took 10 minutes to break the door down?

Charles Ramsey did say that the operators wouldn't believe him and told him to stop playing on the line. That's what makes me wonder if there were earlier calls not made public.

I highly doubt it. What I've learned is to take everything Ramsey says with a grain of salt! Actually, I just don't believe a word he says.

 

[oh_gal]

I cant wait for the book to come out. Gina and Amanda must be ok with each other since they are coauthoring a book together.

Yeah, I kind of wondered about that. Why aren't all 3 co-authoring a book? Why does Michelle have her own book, and her own interview on Dr. Phil?

 

[singers]

I highly doubt it. What I've learned is to take everything Ramsey says with a grain of salt! Actually, I just don't believe a word he says.

I think the very first interviews they gave were the most truthful. I think at the time we read through every interview both English and Spanish. and if you read the Charles Ramsey thread you will see we were analyzing them all.

In one of Marti's first interviews said she was sitting in her chair talking to her friend when Amanda ran across the road shouting, "I'm Amanda Berry."

We know Ramsey's first interviews well as they were all over the internet.

Angelo's first interview he was the first at the door and helped Amanda out. (No mention of Marti or Ramsey), when asked if Ramsey was there he said, yes he was there and helped, we all helped but I was first.

I believe the author did a good job in guessing what probably happened.

Here the conclusion I came to...
Marti saw and heard Amanda so sent Angelo over to see what it was about. Marti was sitting on her porch when Amanda was freed. She had no idea how important that moment was and didn't call the police. She also wouldn't have been able to see what was happening with the door in great detail as she wasn't there. But she was first on the scene and the person who noticed Amanda.
Angelo went and started to help at Marti's request, joined by Ramsey and they got the door open together. Both when interviewed only spoke from their own perspective and only mentioned themselves.

Afterwards it became a competition and they all said things that were not true, Marti claiming to know how the door was opened (probably told to her by Angelo as she wasn't at the door when it was opened) and that Ramsey did not go to McDonald's that day (how would she know?)
Ramsey's story got more and more details added and more *interesting* and discounted Angelo's story. Angelo started to say Ramsey wasn't even there and he also said Ramsey knew about the other girls and was too scared (insinuated this) to go inside and free the other girls. (of course he didn't either... ) They all started lying, some bigger and made more public than others.

For Ramsey to claim Angelo didn't open the door etc, it's no wonder the whole street turned against him. If he spent all the money people gave him to help him get his life on track, well... his decisions are probably why he is in the position he was in before.
It doesn't mean that everything he said was a lie. and i wouldn't discount everything he said because he got caught out lying. Angelo and Marti also got caught out lying or adding things and I won't discount their story either.

It's def a mystery I would love to hear Amanda's version!!

 

[NoNamesLeft]

New to the forums but signed up to make this post - I'm from Cleveland and a friend of mine lived minutes away from the house, her uncle played music with Castro. Anyways, I know this topic was discussed a little bit but I was amazed that Michelle Knight mentioned in the Doctor Phil interview that Castro's daughters and their boyfriends came to the house to investigate because they heard 3 women were living there.

I'm surprised this hasn't been investigated more, as the info is huge, how could they have heard about that? Between that, and the fact that Gina Dejesus was best friends with Ariel's daughter, Arlene, and they also knew Amanda Berry, who was missing, I kind of got the feeling at least some of the family knew what was going on.

Keep in mind while this is a truly evil act, some people will be loyal to their family no matter what. For example, one of Ariel's daughters is spending 25 years in jail for trying to slash her babies throat, the family was still defending her and not saying she's a monster... perhaps the same thing is going on here?

I know some have said Ariel may have made this story up to test the girls, while this is possible, I think it's unlikely - keep in mind he did move them to the garage the next day, and by Michelle Knight's description, it sounded like she could distinctly hear the people in the house. Michelle Knight appeared to have a good idea when Ariel was tricking her too, so I wouldn't be surprised if this her story was actually true.

Between 2 of their friends going missing, the house being always locked up, and hearing rumors about 3 women living there, I find it hard to believe Castro's family didn't have any clue what was happening. I could be wrong, but I think this thing should at least be investigated.

 

[ckia2013]

New to the forums but signed up to make this post - I'm from Cleveland and a friend of mine lived minutes away from the house, her uncle played music with Castro. Anyways, I know this topic was discussed a little bit but I was amazed that Michelle Knight mentioned in the Doctor Phil interview that Castro's daughters and their boyfriends came to the house to investigate because they heard 3 women were living there.

I'm surprised this hasn't been investigated more, as the info is huge, how could they have heard about that? Between that, and the fact that Gina Dejesus was best friends with Ariel's daughter, Arlene, and they also knew Amanda Berry, who was missing, I kind of got the feeling at least some of the family knew what was going on.

Keep in mind while this is a truly evil act, some people will be loyal to their family no matter what. For example, one of Ariel's daughters is spending 25 years in jail for trying to slash her babies throat, the family was still defending her and not saying she's a monster... perhaps the same thing is going on here?

I know some have said Ariel may have made this story up to test the girls, while this is possible, I think it's unlikely - keep in mind he did move them to the garage the next day, and by Michelle Knight's description, it sounded like she could distinctly hear the people in the house. Michelle Knight appeared to have a good idea when Ariel was tricking her too, so I wouldn't be surprised if this her story was actually true.

Between 2 of their friends going missing, the house being always locked up, and hearing rumors about 3 women living there, I find it hard to believe Castro's family didn't have any clue what was happening. I could be wrong, but I think this thing should at least be investigated.

:welcome4:​

The family was *thoroughly* questioned. What exactly they were asked, I don't know-- but if Michelle informed investigators that Castro told her his daughters were suspicious, there is not a chance in hell that the daughters weren't questioned about it. As far as the locks go, he had them on the basement door all the way back when his ex and their children lived there (i.e., before he kidnapped anyone). Although it seems painfully obvious that there was foul-play going on to those of us on the outside, remember that the locks were nothing new to his family. I truly do not believe any of Castro's family members knew.

CKIA'S VIDEOS: CASTRO FAMILY & FRIENDS​

​

 

[nikb]

Some general comments from the past few posts...

- Personally I always thought the 2 minute response sounded pretty unbelievable. I don't know what Cleveland's response times are normally like, but I live in an area known for good (and fast) LE responses. I've called before for an emergency in progress, and recall pacing for way more than 2 minutes waiting to hear sirens, see LE show up, etc. I can also see every minute feeling like an hour depending on the situation though.

- Marti - I kind of doubt Amanda would've had any idea she was there at the time she was in the house and calling for help. I know the story goes that's where she made the call from after she got out, but I can understand how even if she can remember details of the escape, she might not remember Marti. (no offense to Marti) She would've had no reason to know who Marti was, and probably couldn't even see her across the street.

- Book deal - based solely on my own opinions and inferences from the Dr. Phil interview w/Michelle, I'm not surprised they're doing separate things. I am however surprised that Amanda and Gina are co-authoring a book. I wonder if it has to do with their ages? Maybe those two feel closer to each other for that reason?

- In terms of Michelle, again JMO but I get the feeling that in some ways Michelle is going through things faster - maybe due to age, personality, circumstances...?? It seems people have generally been respectful of them, but I also think it's pretty obvious that people want to know more, know details, etc. Once their stories are out, in their own words, maybe it will mellow out some. I feel like Michelle's almost going "let's get this over with so I can move on!"

- Family members - I was honestly shocked when the rest of the family was cleared. I thought for sure that at least his brother was involved. I'd be less surprised to hear that people weren't "allowed" in his house, but to hear they suspected something really throws me.

So many questions, many of which will probably never be answered IMO.

 

[ckia2013]

Some general comments from the past few posts...


- Marti - I kind of doubt Amanda would've had any idea she was there at the time she was in the house and calling for help. I know the story goes that's where she made the call from after she got out, but I can understand how even if she can remember details of the escape, she might not remember Marti. (no offense to Marti) She would've had no reason to know who Marti was, and probably couldn't even see her across the street.

- Book deal - based solely on my own opinions and inferences from the Dr. Phil interview w/Michelle, I'm not surprised they're doing separate things. I am however surprised that Amanda and Gina are co-authoring a book. I wonder if it has to do with their ages? Maybe those two feel closer to each other for that reason?

I think Amanda could see Marti and Tejeda, but you could be right that she might not remember Marti (simply because of the circumstances). Surely she remembers that she used Tejeda's phone to call 911 though...? And presumably Marti was still with Tejeda during that phone call. My guess is that if Amanda remembers anything, it's vague details (e.g., that there were two Spanish-speaking women who helped her).

RE: the book deal, I've always assumed that Amanda and Gina have a strengthened bond due to their families. The Berry and DeJesus families always thought Amanda and Ginas' disappearances were connected, and they worked together to raise awareness & went to each other's vigils.

I'm reading the book right now, btw. There are some pretty obvious erroneous details.... and some that I actually believe. In any event, it's an interesting read.

 

[NoNamesLeft]

:welcome4:​

The family was *thoroughly* questioned. What exactly they were asked, I don't know-- but if Michelle informed investigators that Castro told her his daughters were suspicious, there is not a chance in hell that the daughters weren't questioned about it. As far as the locks go, he had them on the basement door all the way back when his ex and their children lived there (i.e., before he kidnapped anyone). Although it seems painfully obvious that there was foul-play going on to those of us on the outside, remember that the locks were nothing new to his family. I truly do not believe any of Castro's family members knew.

CKIA'S VIDEOS: CASTRO FAMILY & FRIENDS​

​

Thank you for the warm welcome

My train of thought with what I mentioned earlier... you are probably right about the family being questioned extensively, I'm figuring we'll have to wait until Amanda and Gina drop their book to hear more but I'm very interested in hearing their story with this one. I do think it may be possible that the cops didn't look into this though, with 11 years of material to go over, maybe they haven't tied up loose ends like this? Maybe they have?

That being said, Michelle, Amanda, and Gina are the three strongest individuals I've ever heard about, their story is truly inspiring. Despite all of the horrific acts these ladies endured over a decade, their bravery will be remembered for many life times.

 

[singers]

New to the forums but signed up to make this post - I'm from Cleveland and a friend of mine lived minutes away from the house, her uncle played music with Castro. Anyways, I know this topic was discussed a little bit but I was amazed that Michelle Knight mentioned in the Doctor Phil interview that Castro's daughters and their boyfriends came to the house to investigate because they heard 3 women were living there.

I'm surprised this hasn't been investigated more, as the info is huge, how could they have heard about that? Between that, and the fact that Gina Dejesus was best friends with Ariel's daughter, Arlene, and they also knew Amanda Berry, who was missing, I kind of got the feeling at least some of the family knew what was going on.

Keep in mind while this is a truly evil act, some people will be loyal to their family no matter what. For example, one of Ariel's daughters is spending 25 years in jail for trying to slash her babies throat, the family was still defending her and not saying she's a monster... perhaps the same thing is going on here?.

I haven't watch the Dr Phil interview in full but it doesn't surprise me. Those girls lied for their dad in court before. They also say they had no clue he was abusive to their mom. I don't think Arlene was truthful about the last people to see Gina either.
They are liars no doubt. The problem is that with him as a dad they are probably totally screwed up and in some ways victims too. If they do know something they will just lie now to keep out of prison.

His own mother knew what he was doing to his wife, in the book Castro's wife's family beg Castro's mother to get him to stop beating and locking up their daughter.

The whole family accepts abusive behavior as normal or a slight inconvenience. That is the problem. They don't think like normal people.

The only normal one is his son imo.

 

[ckia2013]

I haven't watch the Dr Phil interview in full but it doesn't surprise me. Those girls lied for their dad in court before. They also say they had no clue he was abusive to their mom. I don't think Arlene was truthful about the last people to see Gina either.
They are liars no doubt. The problem is that with him as a dad they are probably totally screwed up and in some ways victims too. If they do know something they will just lie now to keep out of prison.

His own mother knew what he was doing to his wife, in the book Castro's wife's family beg Castro's mother to get him to stop beating and locking up their daughter.

The whole family accepts abusive behavior as normal or a slight inconvenience. That is the problem. They don't think like normal people.

The only normal one is his son imo.

I agree that Arlene has not been truthful. I don't trust her at all. I also agree that Anthony is "normal" and a very good person. I would, however, like to point out that Angie (the eldest daughter) is a great person too; she had nothing to do with lying in court. It was only Arlene and Emily.

I still place NO blame on Lillian Castro (Ariel's mother). I mean, does anyone really think that the mother of an adult son has the power to prevent him from beating his woman?! I really hesitate to write this because I do NOT want it to seem like I am victim-blaming........ how do I say this? Okay, I commend Grimilda for getting a lawyer, but Castro could have been convicted if scheduled court dates were attended. As far as the Figueroa family goes, it's fine to approach Lillian Castro, but I sure hope they went to the police as well. Again, I do not blame ANYONE EXCEPT FOR ARIEL CASTRO, himself. I'm just trying to make a point here that based on the logic for blaming Lillian Castro, everyone who knew is to blame as well (which, of course, I do not believe).

BTW, I just finished the book last night-- and I would just like to point out that there are a lot of errors. I'll try to make a list of them at some point.

Question for the legal experts among us-- If it ever comes out that people knew that Castro was holding the girls captive, could those people be convicted of being accessories (or whatever the term is)? Does the fact that Castro pleaded guilty and is dead now mean anything in terms of whether people who knew could be tried in court? As I've said many times, I do not think anyone knew. I am just curious. Finally, I just want to explain that I usually write "girls" because I am including JB. I know some of you prefer the term "women", but I just can't write that when I'm referring to a 6 year-old. Plus, I just call everyone "girl"; it's a term of endearment!

 

[singers]

I'm not victim blaming either, but I'm not going to say that his mother was a great mother. It was a dysfunctional family.
Some of the articles on this case paint his family as "normal," normal mothers aren't begged to get their son to stop locking up and beating people.

 

[ktgirl]

I hope Amanda, Gina, and Michelle had a great Christmas with people who love them.