Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #15

[Linda7NJ]

Yet she does all that and does not flush the toilet, leaving clear DNA evidence of her supposed co conspirator? And she also fails to clean up the clearly visible bloody shoeprints of RG? I think people attribute too much to AK.



Police also led her to PL. they were asking about him. Even if you believe her to be guilty, I think claims there was some grand conspiracy on her part to frame PL is a bit much. I don't think she is that stupid. She knew PL ran a bar, she would have known unless she was stupid there was a pretty good chance he would have a rock solid alibi. Plus none of the DNA evidence would have matched PL.



It would be pretty stupid to frame someone who 1 ) you knew they had an alibi; and 2) (assuming you believe her guilty) you knew they had no DNA or fingerprints at the crime



Moreover, what would be the purpose? To buy more time for RG to run away? It does not make any sense. If you believe her guilty, she knew what the evidence would show. It would be a matter of time before it led straight to RG, especially since he was a local who was friends w the guys downstairs. Eventually evidence would have led straight to him so why frame an innocent person? It makes no sense.



Unfortunately we will never know what went on in that interrogation room. The fact that nothing was taped is very suspicious IMO.

No one has claimed she's some sort of genius! She's not. She was caught and found guilty twice.

That interview wasn't used against her anyway. It's irrelevant. She came up with ever changing versions later.


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[aa9511]

So to get the truth from anyone, all we need to do is keep them up for several nights in a row. Then follow up with an all night session were we yell and scream and shove them around.

12 officers were involved in Amanda's interrogation that night. Watching what really went on would be interesting, but this interrogation was supposedly not recorded. The police recorded every phone call that the suspects made, the police station itself was bugged, their jail cells were bugged, every conversation with their lawyers was recorded. So why not the interrogation?

You make it sound like she was a prisoner of war, and I believe prisoners of war would take offense.

 

[CJae]

They had an eye-witness telling them he did it. Someone who said she was there and knew he did it. Isn't that probable cause? I don't know much about the law, but sounds like a good reason for probable cause.

I think maybe some are confusing the past and the present. Presently, we know she was just lying. In the past, at the time she said it, they didn't know she was lying. So they could not just shrug it off or ignore what she said. IMO it's enough for probable cause to have an eye-witness to the murder sign a sworn statement that they were there and saw who did it.

Thank you!:seeya:

 

[ashleigh_schwartz]

After going through the Hellman and Massei report last night, and reading other sources, I am not even convinced that Knox and Sollecito were complicit in this crime. They tested the kitchen knife repeatedly and found that Meredith's DNA was not even on it.

I am sorry, but I now find this to be nothing more than a witch hunt. The prosecution is so sloppy. The evidence is so little and based more around speculation that I just cannot believe they are guilty beyond a shadow of doubt and think it is absolutely criminal to convict them on such insufficiency.

Most of you cannot even explain why they would murder Meredith beyond the most ridiculous and cringeworthy motivations (over a messy room, sex-game-gone-wrong, satanic ritual).

I am also confused why people have turned this into such a conspiracy when it most likely is as simple as it appears - Guede murdered Meredith.

 

[Footwarrior]

IMO, the primary duty of a police force is to protect the community. I think some may have forgotten what a horrendous crime this was.

A horrendous crime does not justify convicting the wrong person.

The sad fact of this case is that Rudy Guede will be on the streets in a few years. Unlike Amanda, he is a real risk to the public safety.

 

[CJae]

You make it sound like she was a prisoner of war, and I believe prisoners of war would take offense.

And, just WHEN were they supposed to have done all this??? Lol.

OMG she is a story teller tho isn't she!

 

[Yellow]

So if the supreme court confirms the verdict they still get to appeal one more time? Still trying to wrap my head around this whole process. I hope this doesn't drag out too long.

:jail::jail::jail:

Yes, I wonder what the process is. In the US, you can appeal through the state system, then you can try to get relied through the federal courts if there is a constitutional violation.

After the Supreme Court, are there any further appeals in Italy? Or is it just the European Court of justice?

I certainly don't want to help the Italian courts convict her but I think if they rely on that DNA evidence she will have a strong case in the European courts as well as in fighting extradiction in a US court. If they rely on DNA that is discredited by the intl community, I don't think the European court of justice can let that stand. Saying that knife is the murder weapon when it does not match the wound and where the DNA is below intl standards is just a joke.

However, if they rely on it more as a circumstantial case it will be harder to get the European courts involved. I think the prosecutor knows this bc it seems like they were distancing themselves from the DNA and relying on this more as a circumstantial case. I don't think she would have much a case on appeal if they make it out as a circumstantial case bc discretion is left to the fact finder. There is not much legally the upper courts can do.

But as I said, basing a verdict on DNA evidence gathered by techniques discredited by the intl community is another matter. The knife is probably a stronger argument than the bra because it is a clearer standard on what is or is not considered appropriate whereas dirty collection techniques is much more a matter of opinion.

 

[Yellow]

After going through the Hellman and Massei report last night, and reading other sources, I am not even convinced that Knox and Sollecito were complicit in this crime. They tested the kitchen knife repeatedly and found that Meredith's DNA was not even on it.

I am sorry, but I now find this to be nothing more than a witch hunt. The prosecution is so sloppy. The evidence is so little and based more around speculation that I just cannot believe they are guilty beyond a shadow of doubt and think it is absolutely criminal to convict them on such insufficiency.

Most of you cannot even explain why they would murder Meredith beyond the most ridiculous and cringeworthy motivations (over a messy room, sex-game-gone-wrong, satanic ritual).

I am also confused why people have turned this into such a conspiracy when it most likely is as simple as it appears - Guede murdered Meredith.

Yes, I agree, Nina Burleigh wrote an article today on cnn.com saying essentially the same thing, that this was just a run of the mill robbery gone wrong, a very sad but still all too common crime in our society.

I would venture to guess that almost every day in the US someone breaks into a home and rapes a women, sometimes even killing her. It is something that every single girl living alone fears. And it is likely what happened in this case.

I am not sure why there was an effort to make this case exceptional....If AK returned to WA or even to Germany after the crime, we would not be discussing this case now. RG would be rotting in jail and we would not have had this circus.

Perceived irregularities in AK's behavior made them suspicious. And I think her not being in Italy for this trial doomed her before it even started, indeed the judge already commented adversely on RS not being subject to cross exam. Her not being in Italy for this retrial really hurt her in the jury's eyes. It will be interesting to see what the US does when it comes to extradiction. Unless the court relies on DNA evidence, I expect the Supreme Court will affirm. The Supreme Court may only overturn if the verdict is based on DNA because they won't want to make Italy look like fools for relying on discredited techniques to convict people.

 

[Yellow]

A horrendous crime does not justify convicting the wrong person.

The sad fact of this case is that Rudy Guede will be on the streets in a few years. Unlike Amanda, he is a real risk to the public safety.

I believe RG may be getting out next year!! Scary!! I believe RG will do this again in the same modus operandi. Will that change anyone's minds about Ak and RS when that happens?

I find it Interesting that Italy feels no need to jail RS now.. I mean, you think he brutally stabbed a girl for complaining to your girlfriend about her cleanliness. Such a person is not a threat to society and you are fine with them roaming the streets of your country?

 

[ashleigh_schwartz]

A horrendous crime does not justify convicting the wrong person.

The sad fact of this case is that Rudy Guede will be on the streets in a few years. Unlike Amanda, he is a real risk to the public safety.

I was always struck by the fact that the police allowed Guede to Skype with a family member and they recorded that video session. In that session, he stated that Knox and Sollecito were not there and were not involved at all. Then the police began to offer him deals and his story changed.

Coupled with the fact that they tested Sollecito's kitchen knife again and did not find Meredith's DNA on it, I just cannot side with the people who proclaim that Sollecito and Knox are guilty for certain. The Italian police had searched Sollecito's apartment 4 days after the murder. They said the apartment seemed unusually clean (the maid had cleaned it). The policeman went to a kitchen drawer and took out exactly one knife. This knife was tested and a tiny amount of Meredith's DNA was found on it, although it was not derived from blood. On repeat testings, they did not find this DNA.

So if we are to believe that was the murder weapon, Sollecito took his kitchen knife to Meredith's apartment (for some reason), then it was used to kill Meredith along with other weapons wielded by Knox and Guede, then Sollecito took the knife all the way back to his home (rather than ditching it), cleaned the knife and his apartment with bleach but missed some DNA on the knife, and then finally threw the murder weapon in with his other household utensils.

I do not understand how anyone could believe this nonsense.

The "selectively removing DNA evidence" argument is absurd and literally impossible. The other argument that Knox and Sollecito are guilty because the police could not possibly search every inch of the crime scene is even more absurd and legally dangerous.

 

[otto]

Otto, that's incorrect. Knox had zero power to put anyone in jail. Zero. It's well known that police inquired about the message on her phone to Patrick, "see you later." That raised questions and started the police down a rat hole. Again, there was no requirement for police to arrest Patrick without ascertaining information about his alibi. They failed to do that. They are the ones in control, they are the ones with the power to detain and jail people. Why is that fact ignored?

I could run around my neighborhood accusing people of things but if the police arrested them based on that and didn't do any investigation into the allegations, the police would be (properly) blamed. You have to consider who has the power in situations. Who can make an arrest? Who can detain?

So, Knox does not have the power to put anyone in jail. That's good to know. I don't think that anyone believes that a convicted murderer has the authority to arrest and detain innocent people.

The Supreme Court has ruled that Knox did falsely accuse an innocent man of murder, and that due to that accusation that innocent man was arrested and imprisoned. Due to that accusation that man remained in prison for two weeks while investigators sought the truth. Knox had the opportunity to report that she lied about Patrick's involvement in the murder and the Supreme Court has recognized that Knox, instead, confirmed her accusations against that innocent man in two separate and voluntary statements.

Knox was imprisoned for that conviction, something that Knox repeatedly refers to as a "wrongful imprisonment".

 

[Yellow]

No one has claimed she's some sort of genius! She's not. She was caught and found guilty twice.

That interview wasn't used against her anyway. It's irrelevant. She came up with ever changing versions later.


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I think the interview is far from irrelevant and may be the key lynchpin for arguing her constitutional rights were violated in either the European courts or in fighting an extradiction claim

The interview was used as evidence in the cannabalis trial and even though it was technically excluded in the murder trial because both trials occurred at the same time, the jury that heard the murder trials still heard about the interview. Who knows how that factored into their decision? Such evidence would never be allowed in a US court just because the risk of prejudice is too great.

The cannabalis trial should have been separated out because it would be impossible for the jury not to consider the evidence in the murder trial. If this were a US court, her conviction would likely be overturned,

Add it together with the DNA evidence stuff and you have a strong case.

 

[Kavya01]

:judge:

I am just absolutely counting down the days till the release of The Report. I really cannot wait. I look forward to the list of all of the dots connected towards the logical conclusion the court came to.

 

[Yellow]

I was always struck by the fact that the police allowed Guede to Skype with a family member and they recorded that video session. In that session, he stated that Knox and Sollecito were not there and were not involved at all. Then the police began to offer him deals and his story changed.

Coupled with the fact that they tested Sollecito's kitchen knife again and did not find Meredith's DNA on it, I just cannot side with the people who proclaim that Sollecito and Knox are guilty for certain. The Italian police had searched Sollecito's apartment 4 days after the murder. They said the apartment seemed unusually clean (the maid had cleaned it). The policeman went to a kitchen drawer and took out exactly one knife. This knife was tested and a tiny amount Meredith's DNA was found on it, although it was not derived from blood. On repeat testings, they did not find this DNA.

So if we are to believe that was the murder weapon, Sollecito took his kitchen knife to Meredith's apartment (for some reason), then it was used to kill Meredith along with other weapons wielded by Knox and Guede, then Sollecito took the knife all the way back to his home (rather than ditching it), cleaned the knife and his apartment with bleach but missed some DNA on the knife, and then finally threw the murder weapon in with his other household utensils.

I do not understand how anyone could believe this nonsense.

The "selectively removing DNA evidence" argument is absurd and literally impossible. The other argument that Knox and Sollecito are guilty because the police could not possibly search every inch of the crime scene is even more absurd and legally dangerous.

Yes,I forgot about that... A murder knife used in a brutal stabbing that not only does not match the wounds but that does not even have blood on it! And any DNA found on it, though not blood, was below intl standards.

Yes, that is certainly a good precedent for Italian courts to use in the future, to convict people based on DNA found using discredited techniques and that does not even contain blood.

I think we all know how this will end up. Italy has its conviction, no one's "pride" is hurt, no one's reputation is damaged. They will ask for extradiction, yet not push too hard. US will not extradite and everyone is happy, AK does not serve jail (even though she has to live under this stress for the rest of her life) and no one's "pride" is damaged.

And RG gets out next year to roam the streets. Somewhere in this process justice for Meredith got lost...

 

[otto]

Ever hear of false or coerced confessions? Think that never happens? We know it does. Doesn't it make you wonder why AK's interviews/interrogations were not taped or video'd? That sure would have been a simple and handy dandy tool to ascertain exactly what happened, what was said *in context* without any poetic license and armchair quarterback speculation by the masses, wouldn't it?

I wasn't there. Were you there? Where's the transcript and recording?

Knox confessed that Patrick was a murderer? That's an odd use of the English language. Accusing an innocent person of murderer, and providing eye witness testimony with a detailed explanation, only happens when a guilty party is trying to throw police off their investigation.

Regarding the November 5, 2007 interview with police where Knox was arrested, the signed statements were excluded from the murder trial. I'm curious why they keep coming up, as it doesn't really matter what Knox said, whether there was a video crew, or whether she said nothing during the discussion because the statements were inadmissible at the murder trial.

 

[otto]

So to get the truth from anyone, all we need to do is keep them up for several nights in a row. Then follow up with an all night session were we yell and scream and shove them around.

12 officers were involved in Amanda's interrogation that night. Watching what really went on would be interesting, but this interrogation was supposedly not recorded. The police recorded every phone call that the suspects made, the police station itself was bugged, their jail cells were bugged, every conversation with their lawyers was recorded. So why not the interrogation?

Witness statements are not always recorded.

What role do the statements Knox signed on Nov 5, after her status changed from witness to suspect, have in the murder conviction?

According to Steve Moore, Knox was tortured for 53 hours, deprived of food, water and she was slapped around.

 

[ashleigh_schwartz]

Yes,I forgot about that... A murder knife used in a brutal stabbing that not only does not match the wounds but that does not even have blood on it! And any DNA found on it, though not blood, was below intl standards.

Yes, that is certainly a good precedent for Italian courts to use in the future, to convict people based on DNA found using discredited techniques and that does not even contain blood.

I think we all know how this will end up. Italy has its conviction, no one's "pride" is hurt, no one's reputation is damaged. They will ask for extradiction, yet not push too hard. US will not extradite and everyone is happy, AK does not serve jail (even though she has to live under this stress for the rest of her life) and no one's "pride" is damaged.

And RG gets out next year to roam the streets. Somewhere in this process justice for Meredith got lost...

Yes. So I find it ridiculous that people use the kitchen knife in their reasoning for why Knox and Sollecito are guilty. I find it strange that many of the people who claim they are guilty BARD never mention the incompetence of the police.

First, they were required to record Knox's interrogation but did not, so all we have to go on is their word. The investigators had tested the luminol footprints for blood and found them lacking, a truth carefully hidden from December 17, 2007 (when they were collected) until September 2009, when defense expert Sarah Gino outed the negative test during the trial that led to Knox and Sollecito’s conviction. Even now “bloody footprints” are the Knox case’s most persistent urban legend. Honestly, that is grounds to have the case thrown out and clearly corrupt.

At any rate, after going through many sources last night, I chalk this up as a witch hunt and I am even less convinced that Knox and Sollecito were complicit. I do not even think the courts really believe that they are guilty since they are not making any moves to lock Sollecito up and you think they would if they actually believed he and Knox stabbed Meredith over complaints of a messy room or a sex-game-gone-wrong.

 

[otto]

IMO, the primary duty of a police force is to protect the community. I think some may have forgotten what a horrendous crime this was.

Exactly. People in Perugia were afraid after the murder. Knox claims that she was so afraid she had no choice but to continue living at Raffaele's apartment, where she had lived since the day they met. Granted, that was an absurd claim, but at least she tried to make it sound like she was so afraid of something. She kept repeating that she could have been the victim, yet when asked in court if she was afraid of Guede, convicted of the murder, she said that she was not at all afraid of him.

However, the rest of Perugia was afraid and given the extreme violence, the brutality, that Meredith was forced to suffer while she slowly bled out and died ... no one wants a man accused of that murder to be running around the streets while police decide if there is enough evidence to convict, especially when they have eye witness testimony that he was involved.

 

[Harmony 2]

I had wondered about these results on the knife and why they were ignored when the judge requested the testing:

view the video titled "DNA expert: Science was ignored for Knox "

http://www.twcc.com/video.PdPDvLf9lDMA3cv0lXQjZIDQTudMfVqK

 

[ashleigh_schwartz]

I had wondered about these results on the knife and why they were ignored when the judge requested the testing:

view the video titled "DNA expert: Science was ignored for Knox "

http://www.twcc.com/video.PdPDvLf9lDMA3cv0lXQjZIDQTudMfVqK

Except they tested the knife repeatedly and Meredith's DNA was not found on it after the first time. The DNA they did find initially was so small and not even derived from blood.

Also, how could it be ignored for Knox when Knox's DNA was not even found on the knife in the first place? Raffele's was and obviously because it was his utensil that came from his kitchen drawer in his apartment.