Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[SMK]

Guede speaks from prison: From La Nazione, Nov 1, 2013:(wonder what he is on about now?)

Perugia, November 1, 2013 - "I would be a liar , why they say the judges, but then the truth 'and what'? "breaks the silence with a letter from prison of Viterbo, Rudy Guede.

http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/201...buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer

And this will be shown on an Italian show with a wide audience: Is he planning to say something to effect the Florence trial? One wonders what he is up to now.....
So he says he did not kill Meredith, has not stolen, and did not do any simulation. He he is saying Knox and Sollecito did, obviously....unless he means others "still at large". And why does he refer to Mario Alessi?

 

[sherlockh]

From what I have been able to glean from reading:

Allegedly there were 10 negative results from the DNA sample before Stefanoni came up with DNA that was said to possibly belong to Kercher, and no one can verify those results. Thus, the MK DNA was ruled to be unreliable.(?)

This is why Knox's attorneys - in an article boasting of how the Oct 31 lab findings boost Knox's defense - now claim that there is no proof:

http://www.630wpro.com/common/more....ticle=67916070427611E3B51EFEFDADE6840A&mode=2

So it would seem that after the review of the lab material, on which this trial is based, either Hellmann's findings will still stand, or convictions will be based on all the other circumstantial evidence. This last is what remains to be seen, unless I am missing something....

Not possibly. A full DNA profile means it was Meredith's DNA. Was this new test repeated? I don't think so. Not being able to repeat the test doesn't mean it is not Meredith's DNA. There is a reason why the previous court decisions were annulled.

 

[sherlockh]

Guede speaks from prison: From La Nazione, Nov 1, 2013:(wonder what he is on about now?)

http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/201...buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer

And this will be shown on an Italian show with a wide audience: Is he planning to say something to effect the Florence trial? One wonders what he is up to now.....
So he says he did not kill Meredith, has not stolen, and did not do any simulation. He he is saying Knox and Sollecito did, obviously....unless he means others "still at large". And why does he refer to Mario Alessi?

Apparently this was just about an old letter of Guede. He didn't speak, and the letter didn't say anything new.

 

[sherlockh]

It's too bad there are "sides" to this case. To me that says something about the evidence and investigation.

Poor Meredith - there's no sides there, plain and simple, her young life was taken, and for what?! ... I cannot imagine it, one day you're full of life, with plans and aspirations, then you come home and are greeted with something beyond any of our nightmares.

I don't see how different sides indicate that there is something wrong with the evidence or investigation. Especially when there is such a misleading PR campaign at work. Just an example is the current testing of a new trace on the knife. Reported as no trace of Meredith's DNA on the knife.

Knife In Amanda Knox Trial Shows No Traces Of Victim Meredith Kercher's DNA

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/01/amanda-knox-trial-knife_n_4194173.html

We already saw more links with similar misleading headlines. So then if people read this and believe this, is this because of the evidence and investigation or is this because of the reporting?

 

[sherlockh]

This link contains a picture of that trace that was tested. It was stored in a bag in a freezer. They never even touched the knife.
http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

 

[SMK]

Apparently this was just about an old letter of Guede. He didn't speak, and the letter didn't say anything new.

Yes, this is infuriating, as they made it sound like some big, new revelation which would be aired on Italy's channel 4.

 

[SMK]

This link contains a picture of that trace that was tested. It was stored in a bag in a freezer. They never even touched the knife.
http://thefreelancedesk.com/front_featured/amanda-knox-appeal-2/

Yes, I see. Thanks for linking this. I think this clarifies things as well:

This time around, the presiding judge gave the DNA testing job to the Carabinieri RIS of Rome, known to be the best for CSI in Italy. The forensic scientists determined that the DNA in question was derived from “biological fluids” of Amanda Knox. Through molecular analysis, they excluded that it could have stemmed from Sollecito, Guede or Kercher. Next week, an appeals court in Florence will begin debating the 242 page report deposited with the court, which includes a 91-page forensic report on the “I” trace of DNA found on the kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon, 85 pages of supporting analytic data and 66 pages from the court files. Raffaele Sollecito is expected to attend the hearing, while Amanda Knox remains in Seattle, and Rudy Guede is still only communicating with the media by letter, but giving no television interviews. The defense is expected to argue that the DNA result is nothing out of the ordinary, given possible domestic use of the utensils. The prosecution is expected to argue that there is no plausible reason for the Kercher and Knox’s DNA to be on the knife other than as part of the murder dynamic.

 

[redheadedgal]

We already saw more links with similar misleading headlines. So then if people read this and believe this, is this because of the evidence and investigation or is this because of the reporting?

misleading headlines? how about:

Amanda Knox did cartwheels and splits at police station after Meredith Kercher murder

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ce-station-after-Meredith-Kercher-murder.html

Pictures of the moment Foxy Knoxy went shopping for sexy lingerie the day after Meredith's murder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pping-sexy-lingerie-day-Merediths-murder.html

Amanda Knox kissed and laughed with lover just after Meredith Kercher died

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amanda-knox-kissed-and-laughed-with-lover-376916

Knox stole Mez cash for drugs

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...th-Kercher-Knox-stole-Mez-cash-for-drugs.html

Foxy Knoxy, the girl who had to compete with her own mother for men

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492893/Foxy-Knoxy-girl-compete-mother-men.html

The wild raunchy past of Foxy Knoxy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-498853/The-wild-raunchy-past-Foxy-Knoxy.html

 

[otto]

misleading headlines? how about:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ce-station-after-Meredith-Kercher-murder.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pping-sexy-lingerie-day-Merediths-murder.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amanda-knox-kissed-and-laughed-with-lover-376916

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...th-Kercher-Knox-stole-Mez-cash-for-drugs.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492893/Foxy-Knoxy-girl-compete-mother-men.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-498853/The-wild-raunchy-past-Foxy-Knoxy.html

I can't quite figure out what you're saying, but very much appreciate the links. I can't connect the dots when the sentences are fragmented between several posts. Could you please sort that out for me in your own words? Thx

 

[otto]

Yes, I see. Thanks for linking this. I think this clarifies things as well:

What does the Carabinieri DNA analysis in Rome have to do with the Carabinieri analysis in Perugia? The Carabinieri in Rome are the best in the country. The University "experts", whether US-ians or Italians, came up with a theory that did not hold water. We should keep in mind that Italy is not a slouch in EU forensics, especially after this trial.

This is not to pre-suppose that Italy is some sort of backwards, "Medieval" country, as depicted by the mother of Amanda Knox. The forensic state employee experts in Rome are nothing more than a step up from Perugia in terms of job hierarchy.

Did they get it right this time, or will Knox and Sollecito appeal? Can they appeal yet again?

Will the Supreme Court Simply confirm the verdict ... keeping in mind that they cannot overlook their own ruling of "more than one person involved in the murder".

 

[SMK]

What does the Carabinieri DNA analysis in Rome have to do with the Carabinieri analysis in Perugia? The Carabinieri in Rome are the best in the country. The University "experts", whether US-ians or Italians, came up with a theory that did not hold water. We should keep in mind that Italy is not a slouch in EU forensics, especially after this trial.

This is not to pre-suppose that Italy is some sort of backwards, "Medieval" country, as depicted by the mother of Amanda Knox. The forensic state employee experts in Rome are nothing more than a step up from Perugia in terms of job hierarchy.

Did they get it right this time, or will Knox and Sollecito appeal? Can they appeal yet again?

Will the Supreme Court Simply confirm the verdict ... keeping in mind that they cannot overlook their own ruling of "more than one person involved in the murder".

This is where the confusion and conflicting reports begin to boggle the mind. On the one hand, it would seem very bad for the defense, and as though the convictions may now be upheld. On the other, there are reports of it being smooth sailing to acquittal and finished business, with the knife no longer a piece of reliable evidence. Then there are those who are tenative: Here is a tiny snippet, linked with forum link apparatus, from a very lengthy JREF post:

Simply speaking, any alleged finding of Meredith's DNA by Stefanoni on swab 36B should be considered null and void [. . . ] That's what Conti and Vecchiotti concluded, and it's the correct conclusion. It now remains to be seen whether the new appeal court will accept this conclusion. If it does - as it should - then the knife no longer has any evidential relevance to the trial.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.phppostid=9597230#post9597230

Will it? Ought it? That is where I cannot seem to get a grasp on objective fact, due to so many intelligent people holding widely divergent views.

 

[SMK]

Can anyone clarify exactly what is to occur, when?

Nov 6 will be a discussion of the knife test results, and their implications.

What is to be the theme of Nov 25-6?

And why do they figure it will take another month to render a verdict?

 

[otto]

This is where the confusion and conflicting reports begin to boggle the mind. On the one hand, it would seem very bad for the defense, and as though the convictions may now be upheld. On the other, there are reports of it being smooth sailing to acquittal and finished business, with the knife no longer a piece of reliable evidence. Then there are those who are tenative: Here is a tiny snippet, linked with forum link apparatus, from a very lengthy JREF post:

"Simply speaking, any alleged finding of Meredith's DNA by Stefanoni on swab 36B should be considered null and void [. . . ] That's what Conti and Vecchiotti concluded, and it's the correct conclusion. It now remains to be seen whether the new appeal court will accept this conclusion. If it does - as it should - then the knife no longer has any evidential relevance to the trial."

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.phppostid=9597230#post9597230

Will it? Ought it? That is where I cannot seem to get a grasp on objective fact, due to so many intelligent people holding widely divergent views.

Can you think of any reason why a DNA sample that is smaller than 36-I should be rejected when 36-I is accepted? It's possible, of course. Is there any reason why a test, where all parties observe and have input, should be considered less valid than one where all parties have the opportunity to have an independent test such that everyone can have input?

 

[otto]

Can anyone clarify exactly what is to occur, when?

Nov 6 will be a discussion of the knife test results, and their implications.

What is to be the theme of Nov 25-6?

And why do they figure it will take another month to render a verdict?

As far as I can understand, the 91 page results are part of a larger report that places the new evidence in the context of other trial evidence. On November 6, I suppose that report's conclusions will be presented in court, and the various legal interpretations will be presented by interested parties. The court will need time to read the report and arrive at a conclusion.

 

[SMK]

As far as I can understand, the 91 page results are part of a larger report that places the new evidence in the context of other trial evidence. On November 6, I suppose that report's conclusions will be presented in court, and the various legal interpretations will be presented by interested parties. The court will need time to read the report and arrive at a conclusion.

Thanks. I suppose all of that report will be discussed through the end of the month, and then another month to arrive at a ruling, based on it. Guess we'll all just have to wait; speculation, as we all saw in 2009 and again in 2011, can take you only so far.

 

[SMK]

Once more, with this Italian news piece, Meredith: Doubt about the murder weapon, we have some heralding it as "Nothing ties Knox or Sollecito to the murder" and yet the piece is not so decisive:

http://notizie.tiscali.it/cronaca/feeds/13/10/31/t_16_01_ADN20131031180347.html?cronaca

 

[whiterum]

What do you make of a former FBI agent that categorically dismisses Meredith's DNA on the blade of the knife; a sample that is larger than the trace belonging to Knox on the handle?

It would suggest to me that by denying one and supporting the other he would need his credibility and his head examined ASAP !!

 

[otto]

I can't remember any other case where the headlines read: suspect's DNA on murder weapon means suspect is not guilty.

 

[SMK]

I can't remember any other case where the headlines read: suspect's DNA on murder weapon means suspect is not guilty.

It does seem a bit bizarre. But they arrive at it in a handy if somewhat convoluted manner: They believe that C and V discounts the MK DNA, hence, it is not the murder weapon. That Knox's DNA is found on it is simply from cooking.

No victim DNA, ergo, no murder weapon. But this all hinges on Stefanoni's MK DNA being discounted, which obviously, not everyone is in agreement with. The important thing: What will the judges decide?

 

[SMK]

And one can see how headlines in the US and UK are clearly leading the public to believe all is going Knox's way (and for all we know, it is):

Knife key to Amanda Knox trial had no trace of Meredith Kercher's blood
Alleged weapon found in Raffaele Sollecito's flat was not used in murder, lawyers argue after forensic test results leaked

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/01/knife-amanda-knox-trial-blood-forensic