Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

[aa9511]

BBM now you know how I feel about the claim the bra clasp DNA is from contamination.

I don't think it's a leap that AK could've ran into RG in the piazza and set a "meet" without exchanging numbers.

Especially if it was for drugs, she probably wouldnt want any record of that on his or her phone, in other words no record of the possible transaction.

 

[Yellow]

If it was any of those cases, they would have cracked a long time ago. Not gone on with this charade of vehemently denying even being in the cottage. After all, they had Rudy to blame it on, if they were indeed in the cottage but didn't really participate in anything? Why would they take the risk of going to trial on murder charges and being convicted of murder?

Well, I think even if they said they were there, and did not participate,,the Italians would not have believed them anyway. I believe in situation 1 anyway, or at the very most situation 2. Once they had a story it would make them look even more guilty if they completely change it. People harp on her and ascribe guilt because she did not remember when she called her mother. If she went and said she was stoned and at the cottage people would be all over her calling her guilty.

I think too if they were involved, RS would have turned on her a long time ago. He has the incentive, his family wanted him to, why not do it if he was in any way involved?

I just hope the Italian court is really open to looking at all the evidence with no pre conceived notions and that they only find her guilty if they believe there is no reasonable basis for an alternative scenario. Under that standard, I do not see how they are guilty under the law.

And they deal w the DNA the right way. No one wants to talk about the DNA and how you overcome the fact that it was discredited by soooo many experts other than saying that the independent experts are bad. It still raises reasonable doubt on which experts are right. If you don't put that murder weapon in both their hands or at least place them at the murder scene at the time of the murder, I don't think they have much of a case.

 

[MichaelSmith]

The suitcase woman ... the one that went to Sollecito's house instead of texting him at 8:40 pm. Knox opened the door. I don't know her name, but I know that there is a woman with a suitcase story.

I knew who you were referring to. Her name is J P. These days most people don't say "that woman or the woman" to describe a female. P at the time was a girl in her early 20's.

 

[aa9511]

It could be possible that all three had a drink at the piazza and someone spiked it. I had that happen to me in Vegas a couple years ago.

No one came forward to admit it though. I just knew. I had had a couple drinks but this was way beyond that. Had to go to my room in a wheelchair.

Omg! I'm glad you ended up Ok!! That is crazy!

 

[otto]

It could be possible that all three had a drink at the piazza and someone spiked it. I had that happen to me in Vegas a couple years ago.

No one came forward to admit it though. I just knew. I had had a couple drinks but this was way beyond that. Had to go to my room in a wheelchair.

One of my daughters was poisoned like that one evening, but she started vomiting and didn't stop until everything was out ... managing to get help before she was beyond control. That is an extreme reaction. A milder version, perhaps like crack cocaine, which can give the sense of time distortion, lack of inhibition, a ruleless night world, more night-gangish survival mania than satanic. I had to change the sheets for my daughter throughout the night.

Knox and Sollecito admitted to getting drugged up and liquored up that night. Then, when Meredith was found murdered, they threw out all sorts of stories, ever changing times, events, memories, signed statements, secrets, feigned retractions, denials, fabrications, bizarre mop and bathmat boogies stories and ... well ... the list is long.

If it was accidental, it was not as bad as with you and my daughter. I'm sorry to hear that you went through it. By the time everyone figured out what happened with my daughter, 24 hours had passed and it's impossible to detect the drug. I don't really think that happened here.

 

[aa9511]

It could be possible that all three had a drink at the piazza and someone spiked it. I had that happen to me in Vegas a couple years ago.

No one came forward to admit it though. I just knew. I had had a couple drinks but this was way beyond that. Had to go to my room in a wheelchair.

I have to say I think someone gave me that date-rape drug one time at a party, mixed it in my drink. I don't know if it was that one or some other, I just remember luckily my friends were with me and they took me back to my place, safely. I don't know if they carried me or maybe I was limping along. I didn't realize it at the time, I thought it was just me and I drank too much. I didn't know about any of those drugs back then. Now I hear more and more stories in the news about different girls being raped after someone does something to their drinks - now I realize it looking back. Luckily that did not happen and my friends were with me.

 

[Yellow]

Will testimony wrap up before Xmas and then the court will issue a ruling from the bench in January with a written decision to follow? Or is testimony expected to wrap up in the next week or two?

 

[aa9511]

Well, I think even if they said they were there, and did not participate,,the Italians would not have believed them anyway. I believe in situation 1 anyway, or at the very most situation 2. Once they had a story it would make them look even more guilty if they completely change it. People harp on her and ascribe guilt because she did not remember when she called her mother. If she went and said she was stoned and at the cottage people would be all over her calling her guilty.

I think too if they were involved, RS would have turned on her a long time ago. He has the incentive, his family wanted him to, why not do it if he was in any way involved?

I just hope the Italian court is really open to looking at all the evidence with no pre conceived notions and that they only find her guilty if they believe there is no reasonable basis for an alternative scenario. Under that standard, I do not see how they are guilty under the law.

And they deal w the DNA the right way. No one wants to talk about the DNA and how you overcome the fact that it was discredited by soooo many experts other than saying that the independent experts are bad. It still raises reasonable doubt on which experts are right. If you don't put that murder weapon in both their hands or at least place them at the murder scene at the time of the murder, I don't think they have much of a case.

Yes, it will be interesting what they do and what they decide.

 

[otto]

I have to say I think someone gave me that date-rape drug one time at a party, mixed it in my drink. I don't know if it was that one or some other, I just remember luckily my friends were with me and they took me back to my place, safely. I don't know if they carried me or maybe I was limping along. I didn't realize it at the time, I thought it was just me and I drank too much. I didn't know about any of those drugs back then. Now I hear more and more stories in the news about different girls being raped after someone does something to their drinks - now I realize it looking back. Luckily that did not happen and my friends were with me.

It sounds like a common experience where women walk away from a drink for a minute or get the wrong drink at the bar. It sounds like lights out halfway through the second drink ... unable to even stand up.

Knox and Sollecito did not report any of those symptoms.

 

[aa9511]

I knew who you were referring to. Her name is Jovana Popovic. These days most people don't say "that woman or the woman" to describe a female. Popovic at the time was a girl in her early 20's.

I didn't find the phrasing disrespectful at all. It would be just like saying, you know, that man that showed up at the door.....I don't recall his name but you know who I mean. I don't see anything wrong with how Otto said it.

 

[Myvice]

Well, I think even if they said they were there, and did not participate,,the Italians would not have believed them anyway. I believe in situation 1 anyway, or at the very most situation 2. Once they had a story it would make them look even more guilty if they completely change it. People harp on her and ascribe guilt because she did not remember when she called her mother. If she went and said she was stoned and at the cottage people would be all over her calling her guilty.

I think too if they were involved, RS would have turned on her a long time ago. He has the incentive, his family wanted him to, why not do it if he was in any way involved?

I just hope the Italian court is really open to looking at all the evidence with no pre conceived notions and that they only find her guilty if they believe there is no reasonable basis for an alternative scenario. Under that standard, I do not see how they are guilty under the law.

And they deal w the DNA the right way. No one wants to talk about the DNA and how you overcome the fact that it was discredited by soooo many experts other than saying that the independent experts are bad. It still raises reasonable doubt on which experts are right. If you don't put that murder weapon in both their hands or at least place them at the murder scene at the time of the murder, I don't think they have much of a case.

The problem I see with this is that Amanda DID put herself at the scene and RS DID turn on her.

It's my belief that in US courts the jurors are well aware that experts can interpret things to look any way they want them to. Prosecutors and defense attorneys present cases from different points of view. People on forums like this see things differently. Media and PR firms try to poke holes wherever they can. But in the end the jury will have to look at the evidence and see where it leads them.

Changing stories doesn't look good for anyone. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

[otto]

I knew who you were referring to. Her name is Jovana Popovic. These days most people don't say "that woman or the woman" to describe a female. Popovic at the time was a girl in her early 20's.

I don't know what most people do, but when commenting on a forum, I prefer to avoid names if possible. Admittedly, everyone knows the name of the suitcase woman, but I'm sure that she would not want her name posted on forum, especially one related to the murder of Meredith Kercher ... so I refer to her as the suitcase woman. We all know who she is.

We all know that she did not identify the clothing that Knox was wearing on the night of the murder.

 

[Myvice]

I don't know what most people do, but when commenting on a forum, I prefer to avoid names if possible. Admittedly, everyone knows the name of the suitcase woman, but I'm sure that she would not want her name posted on forum, especially one related to the murder of Meredith Kercher ... so I refer to her as the suitcase woman. We all know who she is.

We all know that she did not identify the clothing that Knox was wearing on the night of the murder.

Good point otto. I'll try and be mindful of that in the future.

 

[Yellow]

BBM now you know how I feel about the claim the bra clasp DNA is from contamination.

I don't think it's a leap that AK could've ran into RG in the piazza and set a "meet" without exchanging numbers.

The standards are completely different. The defense need not prove anything, they need only raise contamination as a reasonable explanation. Sure alot of defense people raise it bc what else can you say? But few have 19 people risking their reputation to support it let alone 2 independent experts.

Also I would let the video speak for itself as to whether one thinks that evidence is not contaminated. You can see dirt on the gloves and the place is a mess with evidence collected weeks later after many trampled all over that crime scene, why also no control testing of other items in that mess of a pile? Why were they afraid to do that?

Certainly if I was a murder defendant I would not my evidence collected in that way.

Moreover, it also proves nothing. Sure, even if it was his DNA (which I 99,9% doubt) MK could have touched something he touched or maybe he hugged her at some point with a low shirt. You have no evidence putting RS w that murder weapon stabbing her. To get RS you have to believe he was so entranced by AK that he would murder a girl he hardly knows. It would be more believable if RG was not in this situation and his DNA WAS ALL OVER THE MURDER SCENE.

 

[aa9511]

One of my daughters was poisoned like that one evening, but she started vomiting and didn't stop until everything was out ... managing to get help before she was beyond control. That is an extreme reaction. A milder version, perhaps like crack cocaine, which can give the sense of time distortion, lack of inhibition, a ruleless night world, more night-gangish survival mania than satanic. I had to change the sheets for my daughter throughout the night.

Knox and Sollecito admitted to getting drugged up and liquored up that night. Then, when Meredith was found murdered, they threw out all sorts of stories, ever changing times, events, memories, signed statements, secrets, feigned retractions, denials, fabrications, bizarre mop and bathmat boogies stories and ... well ... the list is long.

If it was accidental, it was not as bad as with you and my daughter. I'm sorry to hear that you went through it. By the time everyone figured out what happened with my daughter, 24 hours had passed and it's impossible to detect the drug. I don't really think that happened here.

Oh, I'm glad your daughter ended up ok, Otto. That could have been a terrible situation. Sounds like the vomiting helped her, at least to get help before it got out of control, like you said.

These young guys nowadays, especially when they get around their friends, they don't think of the consequences of anything. I think we've all probably heard of all the different stories in the news nowadays of these kids drugging the girls, then they take videos of them (not nice ones), and send it out for their whole school/friends to see. Or even worse, raping them and videotaping it, sending that video out. It's so disgusting. I just think, don't these guys have sisters, or if not sisters they all have mothers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Yellow]

The problem I see with this is that Amanda DID put herself at the scene and RS DID turn on her.

It's my belief that in US courts the jurors are well aware that experts can interpret things to look any way they want them to. Prosecutors and defense attorneys present cases from different points of view. People on forums like this see things differently. Media and PR firms try to poke holes wherever they can. But in the end the jury will have to look at the evidence and see where it leads them.

Changing stories doesn't look good for anyone. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

IF they did it, RS could have come clean, said he saw AK stab or said AK was directing RG stabbing. He never turned on her in that way, he never said AK was in any way involved in that murder, that she stabbed AK or that they had any connection to RG. He easily could have done so and would be a free man now. Most people in his situation would have ratted AK out especially since he hardly knew her - she was not his longtime girlfriend or wife - he has no loyalty to her.

Quite simply if RS was guilty he would have ratted out AK and either made himself out to be completely innocent or taken a plea for much much less time.

 

[Harmony 2]

I was reading a summary of Amanda's appeal and noted that many of the test results showed the DNA of another unidentified female. I was looking for the English translation of the pdf in google but couldn't locate it. Does anyone have a link to it? Thanks...

 

[Yellow]

I was reading a summary of Amanda's appeal and noted that many of the test results showed the DNA of another unidentified female. I was looking for the English translation of the pdf in google but couldn't locate it. Does anyone have a link to it? Thanks...

Quite simply I would not be surprised if that is true and it is DNA of one of the lab technicians. I welcome the prosecution doing more testing bc I think it will only underscore how botched the evidence collection was in this case,

And that is a shame for MK and her family bc if there were other people other than RG involved they will go free.

 

[Myvice]

IF they did it, RS could have come clean, said he saw AK stab or said AK was directing RG stabbing. He never turned on her in that way, he never said AK was in any way involved in that murder, that she stabbed AK or that they had any connection to RG. He easily could have done so and would be a free man now. Most people in his situation would have ratted AK out especially since he hardly knew her - she was not his longtime girlfriend or wife - he has no loyalty to her.

Quite simply if RS was guilty he would have ratted out AK and either made himself out to be completely innocent or taken a plea for much much less time.

As others have pointed out it's much smarter to "not remember". If you start telling stories it can easily back you into a corner and lying always makes you look guilty, MOO.

 

[Myvice]

I was reading a summary of Amanda's appeal and noted that many of the test results showed the DNA of another unidentified female. I was looking for the English translation of the pdf in google but couldn't locate it. Does anyone have a link to it? Thanks...

That would really be interesting. I'd love to see it. From the evidence I've seen I have them in the guilty column but that could change if new evidence were to come forward.

I'm surprised that wouldn't have been all over the news though.