Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

[redheadedgal]

I was reading a summary of Amanda's appeal and noted that many of the test results showed the DNA of another unidentified female. I was looking for the English translation of the pdf in google but couldn't locate it. Does anyone have a link to it? Thanks...

p. 138-9

La presenza di una terza persona non individuabile veniva rappresentata anche
dal consulente di parte civile, dott.ssa Torricelli.
Ø <<in questo caso è una traccia mista con la presenza sicuramente di
almeno due profili, ci sono dei piccoli picchi che possono fare ipotizzare
eventualmente altre presenze>> (trascrizioni udienza 6 giugno 2009, pag.
101).

139
La possibilità di una terza persona di sesso femminile avrebbe forse potuto
condurre a Laura Mezzetti o Filomena Romanelli, le altre due inquiline
dell&#8217;abitazione.
La Polizia Scientifica, tuttavia, non aveva a disposizione i profili genetici delle
altre due giovani.
La Stefanoni ha confermato in dibattimento:
Ø << Se avesse avuto anche il DNA delle altre ragazze che abitavano nella
casa avrebbe potuto rilevare anche il DNA di una terza o di una quarta
ragazza visto che abitavano tutte nella stessa casa e tutte utilizzavano lo
stesso lavandino? R &#8211; Se potessi vedere i profili genetici li potrei
confrontare, cioè io a priori non lo posso dire, non lo posso supporre>>
(trascrizioni udienza 22 maggio 2009, pag. 226).
Le osservazioni sin qui svolte conducono ad affermare con assoluta certezza che
le tracce di dna di Amanda rinvenute nel proprio bagno non possono essere
considerate rilevanti nella descrizione della dinamica dell&#8217;omicidio.

The presence of a third person not identified was also represented
by consultant to the plaintiff, Dr. Torricelli.
Ø << in this case is a track mixed with the presence of definitely
at least two profiles, there are small peaks that can make hypothesize
possibly other presences >> (June 6, 2009 hearing transcript, p.
101).

139
The possibility of a third female person could perhaps have
lead to Laura Mezzetti or Filomena Romanelli, the other two tenants
the dwelling.
The Scientific Police, however, did not provide the genetic profiles of
two other young women.
The Stefanoni confirmed in court:
Ø << If he also had the DNA of the other girls who lived in the
house could also detect the DNA of a third or a fourth
girl saw all that dwelt in the same house and used all the
same sink? R - If I could see them genetic profiles could
compare, that is, a priori, I can not say, I can not suppose >>
(May 22, 2009 hearing transcript, p. 226).
The foregoing observations lead to state with absolute certainty that
traces of the DNA of Amanda found in your bathroom can not be
considered relevant in the description of the dynamics of the murder.

wondering why police would fail to obtain dna samples for everyone in the house...

 

[redheadedgal]

UNDERSTANDING THE INDEPENDENT DNA EXPERTS’ REPORT IN THE AMANDA KNOX CASE

http://forensicdnaconsulting.wordpr...perts’-report-in-the-amanda-knox-case-part-i/

DNA and the law in Italy: the experience of “the Perugia case”

http://www.frontiersin.org/journal/10.3389/fgene.2013.00177/full

similarly...

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.ca/2010/02/ordinary-kitchen-knife-or-murder-weapon.html

 

[whiterum]

I don't know the exact details on that. Whether low-copy or high-copy or everywhere-copy, why was Meredith's DNA found on the knife tip? I don't understand how Meredith's DNA could just magically appear on that knife. If it was the low-copy DNA or low-density DNA or whatever it's called, I would assume that if it was not reliable, they would not have been able to read whose DNA it was. As in, DNA from unidentified female or something like that. Yet it matched it with Meredith's DNA. And there is, IMO, no possibility of transfer/contamination as that knife was found in a totally separate location from Meredith's body and it was completely removed from the whole crime scene.

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.co.uk/2013_07_01_archive.html

This has probably been posted or discussed before. It is the interview with Professor David Balding which IMO gives further insight regarding DNA in general and the findings on the bra clasp.

 

[redheadedgal]

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.co.uk/2013_07_01_archive.html

This has probably been posted or discussed before. It is the interview with Professor David Balding which IMO gives further insight regarding DNA in general and the findings on the bra clasp.

yes, the author's (and other commenters') discussion/refutation of balding's comments does give further insight on both dna and the clasp. thank you for posting this.

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8731849270338485723&postID=9214093058708524479

 

[MichaelSmith]

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.co.uk/2013_07_01_archive.html

This has probably been posted or discussed before. It is the interview with Professor David Balding which IMO gives further insight regarding DNA in general and the findings on the bra clasp.

http://www.frontiersin.org/journal/10.3389/fgene.2013.00177/full

Reviewed by:
Joelle Vuille, University of California, Irvine, USA
David Balding, University College London, UK

 

[Annella]

Guede lied. Claiming that he went to the bathroom to collect towels is supposed to make him sound like he cared. We don't know anything about the towels in Meredith's bedroom.

There is no evidence of Guede in the small bathroom.

IMO Guede said he went into the bathroom for the same reason he said he looked out Filomena's window and saw Amanda leaving. ( a rear view AND at night!) He knew there was a possibility that forensic evidence of himself in those rooms could be found. Its called covering your bases.

 

[sherlockh]

IMO Guede said he went into the bathroom for the same reason he said he looked out Filomena's window and saw Amanda leaving. ( a rear view AND at night!) He knew there was a possibility that forensic evidence of himself in those rooms could be found. Its called covering your bases.

He never said he went into Filomena's room. He said when he faced the window it was not broken. There is a small translation error in Guede's Sentencing Report that says he 'leaned' out of the window but the meaning is 'faced'. This is what he always claimed. The window was not broken when he left. Later he added that he saw Knox running away, which would have been obvious since he just heard her arguing with Meredith before that.

 

[Footwarrior]

IMO Guede said he went into the bathroom for the same reason he said he looked out Filomena's window and saw Amanda leaving. ( a rear view AND at night!) He knew there was a possibility that forensic evidence of himself in those rooms could be found. Its called covering your bases.

Rudy Guede also said he fought the stranger in the kitchen. He was expecting that evidence of a scuffle would be found in that area. An indication that his fight with Meredith started in that room.

 

[SMK]

That's a powerful statement! Knox knew details about the actual murder scene before they were known. This is where they were standing. The police broke the door, so they were closest to the door and everyone else was farther away. Knox and Sollecito were in the kitchen/living room right next to the laundry and exterior door.

I agree Galati's statement is powerful, and the diagram makes it more so.

However I find it deeply disturbing that others say those details were given to Amanda by those who had been in the doorway and were able to see (that MK was by the wardrobe; that a duvet covered her; that a foot could be seen; that she had been knifed).

I would like to know: Is Galati correct that Knox knew what she could only know by being present at the crime, or did she receive these details second-hand???? It matters a great deal!:tantrum:

 

[MichaelSmith]

He never said he went into Filomena's room. He said when he faced the window it was not broken. There is a small translation error in Guede's Sentencing Report that says he 'leaned' out of the window but the meaning is 'faced'. This is what he always claimed. The window was not broken when he left. Later he added that he saw Knox running away, which would have been obvious since he just heard her arguing with Meredith before that.

Yes he did. From the Giordano Report.

He reaffirmed that he had touched many places in the room with
blood on his hands, but that the room was orderly (but he didn't explain his handprint on the pillow under the body of the girl, a pillow that he recalled as being on the bed, outside of the quilt on which the girl's jacket and bag lay), that Meredith was dressed, that the windowpane of the window, which he had leaned out of, was not broken, and that Romanelli's room was in order, and her shutters and inner shutters were open. He had left the house on via della Pergola at around 22:30.

The novelty of the third interrogation was the statement that from Romanelli's window, he briefly saw a female figure with loose hair which seemed to be that of Amanda Knox. Then he repeated what he had already stated: that Meredith's room was in order, that the girl was on the floor, dressed, that he tried to staunch the blood with two towels and then fled, terrified.

 

[sherlockh]

Yes he did. From the Giordano Report.

He reaffirmed that he had touched many places in the room with
blood on his hands, but that the room was orderly (but he didn't explain his handprint on the pillow under the body of the girl, a pillow that he recalled as being on the bed, outside of the quilt on which the girl's jacket and bag lay), that Meredith was dressed, that the windowpane of the window, which he had leaned out of, was not broken, and that Romanelli's room was in order, and her shutters and inner shutters were open. He had left the house on via della Pergola at around 22:30.

The novelty of the third interrogation was the statement that from Romanelli's window, he briefly saw a female figure with loose hair which seemed to be that of Amanda Knox. Then he repeated what he had already stated: that Meredith's room was in order, that the girl was on the floor, dressed, that he tried to staunch the blood with two towels and then fled, terrified.

??? I just said it was a translation error. Check the Italian version.

 

[MichaelSmith]

I agree Galati's statement is powerful, and the diagram makes it more so.

However I find it deeply disturbing that others say those details were given to Amanda by those who had been in the doorway and were able to see (that MK was by the wardrobe; that a duvet covered her; that a foot could be seen; that she had been knifed).

I would like to know: Is Galati correct that Knox knew what she could only know by being present at the crime, or did she receive these details second-hand???? It matters a great deal!:tantrum:

That's been answered. Read Follain, Dempsey or Burleigh where the conversation in the car is reconstructed. Luca told them on the way to the police station how Meredith died after over hearing Bastelli call the police.

 

[MichaelSmith]

??? I just said it was a translation error. Check the Italian version.

It's not a translation error at all. Twice in Guede's SC report it's mentions Guede being in Filomenas room and leaning out the window.

 

[MichaelSmith]

There's plenty of articles on google about it.

http://seattlest.com/2011/06/29/amanda_knox_update_tabloid_justice.php

Apparently, Amanda Knox is still capable of being shocked. Four years after her roommate, Meredith Kercher, was slain in their apartment in Perugia, Italy, and two years after Knox and her boyfriend were convicted of the crime, the case against her still manages to slump further into absurdity and self-parody.

snip

He says he went to a window and saw Knox's silhouette leaving the house. Guede repeated this yarn on the stand (straight-faced, by all accounts), and pointed the finger at Knox and Sollecito. None of Guede's account explained physical evidence that he had sex with Kercher, or how his bloody hand-prints appeared under her body. Shocking indeed.

 

[Harmony 2]

Here's Guede caught on video at the cottage around 8pm before Amanda even got the text from Lumumba.

http://www.oggi.it/video/notizie/2012/03/05/caso-di-perugia-il-video-mai-visto-di-rudy-guede/

Guede writes in his diary



In the video you can see a car parked outside the cottage gates. How could he have known that unless it's him?

Wasn't there also a video of Meredith walking home from that same camera? If Amanda and Rafaelle were there why were their figures not captured on video?

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=ru02A/45RKCLrHw3+F1FFYh4l5k2TGxc - .Uoph4MPnbIU#.UpCy0MPnbIU

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=ru02A/45RKD0S3Yn0dvoNIh4l5k2TGxc - .UopincPnbIU#.UpCy8cPnbIU

p. 138-9





wondering why police would fail to obtain dna samples for everyone in the house...

My understanding is that the third unidentified female's dna was mixed into some of the blood samples tested in evidence.

IMO Guede said he went into the bathroom for the same reason he said he looked out Filomena's window and saw Amanda leaving. ( a rear view AND at night!) He knew there was a possibility that forensic evidence of himself in those rooms could be found. Its called covering your bases.

Glad you joined the discussion.. I am looking forward to reading your posts.

A 6cm dark brown hair and blood were found on Filomena's window. They were not tested further. They were marked as placard R and S on the crime scene photos. The only one with dark brown hair, that was 6 cms long, was Rudy.

 

[MichaelSmith]

So Guede is seen on video twice at the cottage as early as 7.53pm and admits being at the cottage when Meredith got home yet Amanda & Raffaele are watching Amelie at Raffaele's place. The person in this video has to be Meredith because it lines up perfectly with when she parted ways with Sophie.

[video=youtube;o1I7fa6aaKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1I7fa6aaKI[/video]

 

[sherlockh]

It's not a translation error at all. Twice in Guede's SC report it's mentions Guede being in Filomenas room and leaning out the window.

"il vetro della finestra, dalla quale si era affacciato, non era rotto"
Ok, so it is neither a 'facing' or a 'leaning out'. More like a 'looking out from the window' which could then mean that he went into the room before he went into the murder room otherwise there would have been bloody shoe prints. He repeated this claim during his appeal.

Guede said he heard footsteps leaving the house and looked out of the window, where he saw a silhouette that he later identified as Knox's. He said he then tried to rescue Kercher after her throat was slit, taking her in his arms and trying to mop up the blood with towels. But he panicked and left the house.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-06-27-Amanda-Knox-murder-Italy-trial_n.htm

 

[sherlockh]

So Guede is seen on video twice at the cottage as early as 7.53pm and admits being at the cottage when Meredith got home yet Amanda & Raffaele are watching Amelie at Raffaele's place. The person in this video has to be Meredith because it lines up perfectly with when she parted ways with Sophie.

Meredith Kercher's arrival home at 9:01 p.m. Nov 1, 2007 - YouTube

Disputed since there was testimony that the CCTV clock was 10 minutes fast. We just discussed that testimony so I don't think there is any point to do that again. The person on CCTV was most likely Knox although we can't make any definite identification. The clothes and timing don't fit with Meredith.

 

[MichaelSmith]

"il vetro della finestra, dalla quale si era affacciato, non era rotto"
Ok, so it is neither a 'facing' or a 'leaning out'. More like a 'looking out from the window' which could then mean that he went into the room before he went into the murder room otherwise there would have been bloody shoe prints. He repeated this claim during his appeal.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-06-27-Amanda-Knox-murder-Italy-trial_n.htm

I'm using the PMF translation. Someone better tell them they've got it wrong. :facepalm:

 

[MichaelSmith]

Disputed since there was testimony that the CCTV clock was 10 minutes fast. We just discussed that testimony so I don't think there is any point to do that again. The person on CCTV was most likely Knox although we can't make any definite identification. The clothes and timing don't fit with Meredith.

If it was 10 minutes fast then how can it be Amanda at 8.43pm when she was at Raffaele's place watching Amelie and seen by J P just three minutes earlier? It lines up perfectly with Meredith getting home after she parted with Sophie.