Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

[whoanellie]

I'm guessing you only speak English. (Sorry, mods. Sometimes the word "you" is unavoidable.)

This isn't to disparage you. I'm only fluent in English myself. But I've spoken enough French and Spanish to appreciate the barrage of sound that greets one when one is learning a new language. A few weeks in country is not enough time to sort out all the words.

Sure, if you were given the word for "locked" or "unlocked" by itself, you might know it, but that isn't how words come at you in a conversation. The sounds run together and it isn't always easy to know whether the syllable indicating the negative applies to the word before it or after it or to an entire phrase or sentence.

Excellent post. Thanks.

 

[otto]

Yep, all in under an hour after watching Ameile. One minute Raffaele is mr nice guy willing to help a girl drop off a suitcase, the next minute he's brutally raping and killing a girl he barely knew with a complete stranger.

Absurd and ridiculous

The woman asked Sollecito to help her with a suitcase that her mother was sending. Sollecito had a car so he was helping her to pick it up. She dropped by around 8:40 to tell Sollecito that she didn't need help after all. She probably could have texted it faster, but she chose to drop by. Who did she find at the door, but Knox. That probably put a huge damper on her evening.

Wasn't this about the time that Knox and Sollecito turned off their cell phones? Did the suitcase woman arrive before or after the phones were turned off?

 

[MichaelSmith]

So all of a sudden Knox, who didn't speak a word of Italian when she was questioned as a witness, was fluent in Italian and perfectly understood what Bastelli explained to police in a phone call: that Meredith had been murdered near the closet, that her body lay prone with a foot exposed, and that she bled to death? How did Bastelli know that Meredith was murdered near the closet ... that couldn't be seen in the scene because Meredith had been moved a few feet away from the closet, where she bled more.

Re-read my post again. Luca overheard Bastelli calling the police after he'd gone into the room and lifted the duvet. Luca then told Raffaele & Amanda in the car that Meredith's throat had been slit.

 

[MichaelSmith]

It is a misconception that Guede will be released in 2014. In May, 2016, Guede completes half of his sentence, meaning he becomes eligible for parole. Guede does not get out of prison next year.

We covered this days ago.

http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/omicidio-meredith-guede-permessi-uscita-carcere.html


Murder Meredith, 2014 Guede will get out of prison
„
The only culprit is Rudy Guede: definitively sentenced to 16 years for murder in competition with ghosts .... but (given that there are other culprits at the moment) . And in the six years since this tragic crime - both for the Kercher family and for the city of Perugia came under the disgraced general - comes the news that the only official offender (the Ivorian-Perugia) Rudy Guede from May will leave prison having already served between good behavior, preventive detention and one year subscriber - every few already discounted - half of the sentence imposed by the Court.

The confirmation comes directly lawyer Nicodemo Gentile during the broadcast Mediaset Fourth Grade: "I can confirm - he explained - which from May will be attended our formal request to enjoy the benefits of the law: that the first allowed to leave the prison of Viterbo.
“

 

[Yellow]

The US has several thrill kill stories. I have no idea how these youth and young adults can get so far from reality, but it happens.

Pushing boundaries doesn't stop at spontaneous sex and good drugs, especially for someone that has just discovered that it is possible ... someone that burst into loud song at a restaurant with Meredith and her friends one evening ... something everyone considered odd.

I agree, I do not know why some youth do what they do. Look at that kid in the ridgeway case....sick

But saying someone is going to push boundaries on study abroad is hardly relevant to whether they will commit murder bc otherwise you would have all kinds of kids studying abroad getting into trouble with the law. What she said about pushing boundaries is just irrelevant.

Whoever kills any human being is not a normal or rational person. It is more understandable I guess if the person has a mental illness, but I don't think anyone can explain what motivates someone to murder. It is not normal behavior,

I believe AK, but I think she comes across as cold and dark and I think that really hurt her. I think she maybe did not always do or say things that were appropriate bc I think she was immature and really should not have been doing study abroad. I think she came from a broken home, was a bit troubled, and probably acted inappropriately w men in Italy. I think she was a good little girl her whole life and she wanted to have reckless sex. At the same time, if you read her book, I think she realized that she was not really the type of girl who could have meaningless sex- I think she thought she could do it without emotional involvement but it did not really work. So I think by the time of the murder, she was retreating back from the boundaries she pushed (w sex and drugs, though less with drugs - I think she did pot bc they all did pot even the roommates).

 

[Amber29]

If that is true, then I think prosecutors need to make out some case of motive. It seems like alot of people are saying no motive is required and don't want to discuss it. But if that is a point of law that must be proves in Italy, that is a very weak claim for the prosecution.

Besides thrill kill, what other motive? Do those who believe in her guilt think this was planned or do they think this was spur of the moment? What was preexisting relationship among the three? Does anyone think they knew RG intimately beforehand?

I've said before what I think and that is that drugs harder than pot were involved. It is not far fetched to think they did either considering I believe RS had already experimented with harder drugs. I also find his statement about "never doing drugs again" strange. Considering if all he did was stay home and smoke pot what does he regret about that?

The fact that they claim to only have smoked pot doesn't make me believe them. For one they are liars and two why would they admit to doing any harder drugs?

 

[MichaelSmith]

The woman asked Sollecito to help her with a suitcase that her mother was sending. Sollecito had a car so he was helping her to pick it up. She dropped by around 8:40 to tell Sollecito that she didn't need help after all. She probably could have texted it faster, but she chose to drop by. Who did she find at the door, but Knox. That probably put a huge damper on her evening.

Wasn't this about the time that Knox and Sollecito turned off their cell phones? Did the suitcase woman arrive before or after the phones were turned off?

"The woman" ???

 

[Yellow]

Are you aware of the experts that represented the prosecutor/civil side pertaining to the DNA evidence in the appeal?
Hellmann completely disgarded what they said as well.
So it's ok if any experts agreeing with the prosecutors side are deemed incompetent but not C&V?

How do you feel about the sample C&V found on the knife that they refused to test and their reason for not testing?

If there is debate among experts - and the experts are not some hobos but are accredited, etc - that raises reasonable doubt which is all you need here, reasonable doubt.
I would consider an independent expert higher than an expert hired by either side since they are not trying to advance either side, they were hired to give an impartial opinion which is why courts hire them. I give more weight to their opinion than either prosecution or defense, it is not for them to prove or disprove the case but to review the prosecution's DNA work.

I recall something about the testing but I thought it was bc the sample was too small

They recently did testing on that knife. It only had amanda DNA - not blood. Frankly, I don't even know why people who believe in AK's guilt even use the DNA evidence to show anything - it is going to be thrown out. The Italian judicial system would look ridiculous if they use DNA to convict someone that is not up to the standards of the intl community - and will set a horrible precedent for future defendants. It will get struck down by the European court of justice, if not by AK then by someone else bc if they allow it in this case they have to allow it in all cases. They would be better off doing a better job of making out a circumstantial case - such a case would be hard to overturn on appeal.

Messing w the DNA - that will also complicate any extradiction. If DNA was used to convict that our nation's top expert say was not reliable they will never extradite her. Like I said, Italy would be less embarassed if they make this a circumstantial case

But they are not bc they know such a case is very weak.

 

[Yellow]

I've said before what I think and that is that drugs harder than pot were involved. It is not far fetched to think they did either considering I believe RS had already experimented with harder drugs. I also find his statement about "never doing drugs again" strange. Considering if all he did was stay home and smoke pot what does he regret about that?

The fact that they claim to only have smoked pot doesn't make me believe them. For one they are liars and two why would they admit to doing any harder drugs?

It is irrelevant. Sadly thousands even millions of people do hard drugs every day, cocaine,,heroin,,etc and I would expect that only a small percentage go out to then murder someone. Of course, a higher percent than normal people like us who are writing on websleuths on a Friday night but still small.

And the possibility of hard drugs makes the possibility of the scenario I mentioned above more plausible. Maybe they were in the cottage that night after the murder. But they did not call the police that night because they were on coke. I think some people would not call the police on a murder if they were all coked up at the time. They would not want to be arrested for drugs. Think if you walked into a murder scene and you were coked up would you call the police? I think alot of people - particularly college kids - would not.

Besides there is no evidence of hard drugs, no drug dealer came forth and said he sold to them, etc.

 

[Amber29]

It is irrelevant. Sadly thousands even millions of people do hard drugs every day, cocaine,,heroin,,etc and I would expect that only a small percentage go out to then murder someone. Of course, a higher percent than normal people like us who are writing on websleuths on a Friday night but still small.

And the possibility of hard drugs makes the possibility of the scenario I mentioned above more plausible. Maybe they were in the cottage that night after the murder. But they did not call the police that night because they were on coke. I think some people would not call the police on a murder if they were all coked up at the time. They would not want to be arrested for drugs. Think if you walked into a murder scene and you were coked up would you call the police? I think alot of people - particularly college kids - would not.

Besides there is no evidence of hard drugs, no drug dealer came forth and said he sold to them, etc.

You expect a drug dealer to come forward and say "I sold them drugs that night"? :floorlaugh:

 

[whoanellie]

"The woman" ???

You are a much better man than I am. Any response I would have attempted would probably have blown up the internet.

 

[otto]

a handprint match on the wall and a shoeprint match on the floor are not dna evidence.

link to CM released amanda's list of lovers?

then why the assertion about budget constraints? who made it?

comparing media behavior to police/prosecutor behavior?

C&V are taken to task for stating re: contamination that "anything is possible" but mignini is not for prosecuting AK even though he admits he cannot put her in the room... maybe she wasn't there... maybe she insitigated the brutal slaying from another room?

it is not normal to fry several hard drives in the course of an investigation: purposeful or incompetence?

my point was a failure to properly store evidence: purposeful or incompetence?

the point was missed entirely.

There is circumstantial evidence, including DNA evidence.

Who released Knox's list of sexual conquests in Europe immediately after the HIV scare? Knox wrote about it in her diary. I don't recall anything about prosecutors confiscating Knox's diary. Weren't portions of the diary released to the public by Mellas? If not, perhaps they weren't released. That's the only source I'm aware of.

What budget constraint? The huge uproar about the virtual crime scene re-enactment that was done? What does it normally cost to produce a crime scene re-enactment with four characters and a long, unforgiving death.

Comparing media behavior to media behavior. A tabloid posted a photo of red finger print powder and made false claims. CNN posted a photo of a twelve year Knox and accused of murder ... false claims.

The problem with Conti and Vechiotti is that they were illogical and that they did not complete the work for which they were tasked.

Who cares how many hard drives were fried. The only question that matters is whether the computer evidence that was needed for the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher is intact. It was intact. Too bad for Knox. Is she complaining that although she is innocent, she was angry that her laptop was damaged during an investigation even though her laptop was sitting in the middle of the crime scene?

I'm not missing any point ... if that's what is meant by: "point was missed entirely" and "completely missed the point" ...

 

[Yellow]

You expect a drug dealer to come forward and say "I sold them drugs that night"? :floorlaugh:

Well, they got that heroine addict to say things,

They could have also gotten someone for drugs, then given them a deal if they testified against AK and RS.

There could also be evidence of those drugs being in RS apartment,,there was not. Or evidence someone saw AK do those drugs in the past. Of course there is always a first time, but there simply is no evidence they used hard drugs that night.

It also strikes me that once you get into those drugs you just do not do it once, you become quickly addicted. Whereas w pot, people may do it every now and then at parties, at least that is how I recall it during college. There is no evidence either were junkies, far from it. I also think AK did not have alot of money to buy such stuff. RS might have had money and bought it for her, but if AK been doing drugs, I doubt it was anything other than pot - and if anything more, I expect it would have been RS buying it for her,

 

[Myvice]

I've said before what I think and that is that drugs harder than pot were involved. It is not far fetched to think they did either considering I believe RS had already experimented with harder drugs. I also find his statement about "never doing drugs again" strange. Considering if all he did was stay home and smoke pot what does he regret about that?

The fact that they claim to only have smoked pot doesn't make me believe them. For one they are liars and two why would they admit to doing any harder drugs?

I find his statement strange as well.

I had a friend in the 70s that bought some pot laced with PCP unbeknownst to him. He had a violent experience after he smoked it and vowed the same thing.

 

[Myvice]

Well, they got that heroine addict to say things,

They could have also gotten someone for drugs, then given them a deal if they testified against AK and RS.

There could also be evidence of those drugs being in RS apartment,,there was not. Or evidence someone saw AK do those drugs in the past. Of course there is always a first time, but there simply is no evidence they used hard drugs that night.

It also strikes me that once you get into those drugs you just do not do it once, you become quickly addicted. Whereas w pot, people may do it every now and then at parties, at least that is how I recall it during college. There is no evidence either were junkies, far from it. I also think AK did not have alot of money to buy such stuff. RS might have had money and bought it for her, but if AK been doing drugs, I doubt it was anything other than pot - and if anything more, I expect it would have been RS buying it for her,

Since we're speculating, I find it quite possible they got the drugs from Guede. Amanda had partied with him before.

Guede must have gotten ahold of some bad stuff to do what he did.

 

[Amber29]

Well, they got that heroine addict to say things,

They could have also gotten someone for drugs, then given them a deal if they testified against AK and RS.

There could also be evidence of those drugs being in RS apartment,,there was not. Or evidence someone saw AK do those drugs in the past. Of course there is always a first time, but there simply is no evidence they used hard drugs that night.

It also strikes me that once you get into those drugs you just do not do it once, you become quickly addicted. Whereas w pot, people may do it every now and then at parties, at least that is how I recall it during college. There is no evidence either were junkies, far from it. I also think AK did not have alot of money to buy such stuff. RS might have had money and bought it for her, but if AK been doing drugs, I doubt it was anything other than pot - and if anything more, I expect it would have been RS buying it for her,

RS had already done harder drugs, so im not sure your point about doing it once and being an addict. IMO he would have had no problem convincing AK to try something, she was up for all kinds of new things while abroad.

I agree there's no evidence of the drug use that night but I also think that drug use is easily hidden and I think RSs statement about "never doing drugs again" hints about something more than pot.

I also believe none of the three have a clear memory about that night and the truth will never be known. Bits and pieces is I think all they've got and "dreamlike". This is of course all IMO

 

[Amber29]

Since we're speculating, I find it quite possible they got the drugs from Guede. Amanda had partied with him before.

Guede must have gotten ahold of some bad stuff to do what he did.

Yes I don't doubt that the drugs is what tied the 3 together that night.

 

[MichaelSmith]

I've said before what I think and that is that drugs harder than pot were involved. It is not far fetched to think they did either considering I believe RS had already experimented with harder drugs. I also find his statement about "never doing drugs again" strange. Considering if all he did was stay home and smoke pot what does he regret about that?

The fact that they claim to only have smoked pot doesn't make me believe them. For one they are liars and two why would they admit to doing any harder drugs?

He doesn't mention drugs, just that he'll never smoke a joint again.

I do not know if it is right that I must pay so much for not being able to focus on the moments in the time during November 1, but after this experience, believe me, I will never touch a joint again in my life. As I write to you, there is a pair of Moroccans (presumably) that speak an incomprehensible language and knock on my cell wall. They keep complaining also because they need a dose of heroin. I do not want to answer them. I donʹt
care.

 

[otto]

If that is true, then I think prosecutors need to make out some case of motive. It seems like alot of people are saying no motive is required and don't want to discuss it. But if that is a point of law that must be proves in Italy, that is a very weak claim for the prosecution.

Besides thrill kill, what other motive? Do those who believe in her guilt think this was planned or do they think this was spur of the moment? What was preexisting relationship among the three? Does anyone think they knew RG intimately beforehand?

The motive has been given, although I think something went really wrong with the translation in the early stages and/or with Doug Preston's influence, and before anyone realized what was happening, the motive was translated to satanic ritual sex game gone wrong, prosecutor witch craft weirdo - not to be trusted as sane. So began the torment of a prosecutor doing his job. We now know that the "witchcraft satanic angle" came from Douglas Preston, author. That leaves a sane prosecutor doing his job. He had received a complaint, presumably from a disgruntled convict, and it was dismissed.

I think that this murder has always been viewed as three really stoned and alcohol influenced adults that started tripping and decided to harass a roommate - the night was young. At Knox's instigation (perhaps a prank), things went wrong fast ... with Meredith being overpowered by three parties. She was stabbed with two different weapons - some small nicks and cuts with a smaller knife on one side of her neck, at least one really keep fatal wound on the other side of her neck. Two different sized knives and two different directions is one reason why more than one attacker was presumed present.

There appeared to be a sexual assault, as Meredith's clothing was disturbed, but she was not raped.

Knox made friends fast in Perugia, especially friends that shared her favorite vice ... people like Guede. In five weeks, she met Sollecito and two or three other adult males and was in bed with them before the sun went down. After meeting Guede three separate times, she was most likely very comfortable with him. She testified in court that she was not afraid of him, even though she had seen the crime scene photos and knew that he participated in the murder of her roommate ... not afraid of him.

 

[Amber29]

He doesn't mention drugs, just that he'll never smoke a joint again.

That's fine. Either way joints are laced all the time, I still find it odd if all you did was smoke a joint and stay home nothing to regret about that.

I smoked a lot of pot in my teens and I've never completely lost my memory of a night to the point I don't know what I did.