Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ah, ok - so there really was a hair which was lost.

LOL SMK!! It is so funny watching you literally go back and forth in your posts - like a referee (or whatever the term is) at a tennis match, moving head from this side to that side in rapid motions. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
<respectfully snipped>

Knox Nov 7, 2007:

"I didn’t lie when I said I thought the killer was Patrick. I was very stressed at the time and I really did think he was the murderer. But now I remember that I can’t know who the murderer was because I didn’t return back to the house."

Thank you for transcribing the entire text of the November 7. In my opinion, it confirms what I've said throughout the discussion.

  • Late on November 5, Knox implicates Patrick. She tells a lie about him.
  • On November 7, Knox states that she did not lie when she implicated Patrick.

That was the opposite of what she should have said. She should have said that she did tell a lie, and that she was dishonest, when she implicated Patrick. She did lie. We all know that. A claim from her that she did not lie is simply another lie. What Knox does is attempt to distance herself from the murder. She states that she was not at the cottage during the murder. As I've said, she does not admit to lying to police and falsely implicating Patrick, she simply wants to remove herself from the scene of the crime. That is her only objective ... not to tell the truth about Patrick. Therein lies the problem.

I realize that some people want to read between the lines and interpret what she writes as meaning that because she wasn't there, she doesn't know who murdered Meredith, and regarding Patrick, she didn't lie. But to believe that, we have to forget that she did lie.

She did lie, she lied multiple times, and she continues to lie. And what is the basis behind all of those lies, if someone were to examine all of them? The basis is self-serving, always to benefit Amanda in one way or another. Not saying the end result always benefitted her, but at the time she said them, she thought it was going to benefit her. Her state of mind in each lie was that it would end up benefitting her.

What is the big mystery behind all of this? Clearly a guilty person doing what guilty people do.
 
But now I remember that I can’t know who the murderer was because I didn’t return back to the house

Oh, really, Amanda? You just now figured that out? You just now figured out that you can't be a witness to something you didn't see?

It is so obvious that she's lying and trying to cover her bases. I am not even going to pretend that there is an ounce of truth in any of that self-serving garbage.

Exactly. She is trying to distance herself from the murder. At no time is she trying to clarify that she told a whopper lie implicating an innocent man of murder.

She did figure it out a day too late. It was after she was arrested, apparently, that she realized that providing eye witness testimony of a murder meant being a suspect. That inspired two letters attempting to clarify that she stood behind her statement about Patrick, but she wasn't actually there, but she didn't tell a lie.

When that didn't pan out, we got the "I was stoned" story. I don't know, I was imagining, I have flashbacks, I am a "kid" in a far away medieval town ruled by a corrupt judicial system ... what should we believe. She told her mother about the whopper lie on November 10 (meaning she kept it to herself for another three days) and then her mother told the world about the medieval town in Italy with the bewitched or confused Prosecutor's Office.
 
If that is the case, maybe this is why the police suspected them when they said they couldn't remember.

On the other hand, something about the police insisting she had a black- out and her conjuring up PL does sound like other false confessions I have read about, caused by bad interrogation technique. I recall one where a girl confessed to killing someone, and it later was proven she did not. If you can implicate yourself, I suppose you can implicate another as well...

I can see why Knox believes she didn't intentionally lie about PL. Had she really been out to get him, she could have done far better: She could have fleshed out more details and really framed him. In the end, I feel Knox and Sollecito had some role, and they are in deep trouble for it and maybe should be. Is it possible to be coerced into a false confession and also be guilty?
ETA:So you believe, otto, that all of it is very manipulative: She is NOT stressed, she is faking when she acts all hazy about Patrick. When she imagines she sees him, and they hear her screaming, "he's bad!". It's all a ruse, she is acting. and she is acting when she retracts it , and when she finally remembers she stayed home and was never there. If you are correct, then I see why all of this gets you so angry.

"Fleshing out more details" is exactly the opposite of what she wanted to do. She wanted to tell NO DETAILS about the murder. She wanted to go every which way except the murder.

Yes, she is faking it when she acts all hazy about Patrick. Read my post from above....I'm gonna term it being in the "neutral" zone.

No, blaming Patrick WAS due to stress - the stress of being guilty of a murder and being questioned about said murder!!! What is the big mystery , folks??????
 
It looks like Meredith had some highlights or lighter coloured hair not just black. Guede's attack was so violent he pulled her hair out at the roots. You can see more hair on the ground in the crime scene pics.

MeredithKercherL_468x506.jpg

I see a blonde hair. The highlights in her hair are very different color from what was pictured. And the excuses start.......
 
Lighter coloured hair much more obvious in this photo.

image-1-for-a-tribute-to-meredith-kercher-gallery-3286152082.jpg

The appropriate picture would be the one you posted before this, since that was the day before the murder. You cannot go back and post a picture of her which doesn't resemble what she looked like during the time of the murder, that is misleading, IMO.

And the hair in the picture of Meredith is obviously a blonde hair, and it is in her curled up hand which indicates she was grasping onto something and that's where the hair was pulled out. It is not a hair from a hair randomly landing in that exact spot.

As I said, and the excuses start.........
 
She did lie, she lied multiple times, and she continues to lie. And what is the basis behind all of those lies, if someone were to examine all of them? The basis is self-serving, always to benefit Amanda in one way or another. Not saying the end result always benefitted her, but at the time she said them, she thought it was going to benefit her. Her state of mind in each lie was that it would end up benefitting her.

What is the big mystery behind all of this? Clearly a guilty person doing what guilty people do.

BBM

By avoiding making a clear, unambiguous statement regarding Patrick Lumumba's innocence, yet declaring that she was not at the scene of the crime, it appears that Knox was attempting to obfuscate the facts. Both cannot be true. Knox could not declare that Patrick was guilty, or that she could imagine that Patrick was guilty, if she was not there. That bizarre claim obviously did not clear her of the murder. That lie made things worse, and it didn't look good that she'd been lying for days about her activities on the night of the murder.

That's also the basis for her conviction for slander that has been upheld by all courts.

She continues to lie. That liars cannot be trusted to give a true statement seems to elude many. Knox is a well documented liar, like Casey Anthony, but each time the lies are excused, like Casey Anthony.
 
I do agree with this. And during his video he says Merideth's boots that are seen by the wardrobe caused a blood smear by the bed?

Also the professional climber saying you didn't need bars to climb the window while visibly holding them?

It's sad that so many people will sell their souls for the spotlight. JMO

JMO, too. A little like the Casey Anthony case, and all the information that was coming out from various sources, it all just in the end confused things for everyone. In that case, obviously it was high-profile and the time span between when the poor girl was missing and when her body found was large enough to cause all kinds of people to come out with various rumors and "information." There are so many cases with the same thing, high-profile and long time-span and it just gives a recipe for confusion.
 
From the following link I can't find where Luca stated that he told Amanda what happened.

But from the testimony of Robin Butterworth it looks as though it wasn't the crime scene that she was describing. Amanda stated that she was killed by the wardrobe (which was later determined) instead of in the middle of the room where she was found.

Amanda was unable to explain how she knew these details.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...tieri_.26_Paola_Grande_vs_Michele_Battistelli

It was in their witness statements not testimony.
 
Good find! Exactly. Knox claimed that she understood from Sollecito's translation of Luca's description that Meredith was killed near the closet/wardrobe, which was true, but Meredith was moved and discovered in a different location. Knox said that Meredith bled to death, which was true, but was it that obvious when she was covered with a duvet? Knox said that she heard a scream, and the scream was confirmed by more than one witness.

There was a question as to whether Luca had been in the room when police lifted the duvet. The next question is whether Luca recalled providing that level of detail to Knox.

It was previously suggested on this forum that Knox overheard all of this when Luca was on the phone. Maybe that happened n the car.

No. Remember I said to re-read my post? I said Luca overheard Bastelli calling the police after he'd gone in the room and lifted the duvet. I never said Amanda overheard the call or even that Luca made a call.
 
I think we know how Knox felt about Meredith. She states that Meredith was her friend. After the murder was discovered, Knox was sitting on Sollecito's lap, sticking out her tongue, making phone calls and claiming that she found the body, and when one of Meredith's friends said that she hoped Meredith didn't suffer, Knox declared that she f-ing bled to death. On that day, Knox wrote in her diary that it didn't seem appropriate to write that she could kill for a pizza. The following day, Knox and Sollecito were teasing each other and flirting in a lingerie shop. Knox did not attend the Memorial Service. Knox did not offer her condolences to Meredith's family, clearing avoiding them on the night of the Memorial.

Did I miss anything?

BBM

That part is just odd. Why would she not attend? If guilty, to dispel any suspicions that she didn't care about her friend. And if not guilt, well that just goes without saying?
 
The appropriate picture would be the one you posted before this, since that was the day before the murder. You cannot go back and post a picture of her which doesn't resemble what she looked like during the time of the murder, that is misleading, IMO.

And the hair in the picture of Meredith is obviously a blonde hair, and it is in her curled up hand which indicates she was grasping onto something and that's where the hair was pulled out. It is not a hair from a hair randomly landing in that exact spot.

As I said, and the excuses start.........

There does appear to be a long blondish colored hair curled up in Meredith's hand. If it is a fibre, then it must be a strand of silk. If it is a hair, it could not have been secondary transfer and be caught in Meredith's fingers per the photo.

 
No. Remember I said to re-read my post? I said Luca overheard Bastelli calling the police after he'd gone in the room and lifted the duvet. I never said Amanda overheard the call or even that Luca made a call.

So Luca explained the murder scene, closet body location and murder location bleeding, and fatal wound with slowly bleeding to death in the car while dirivng Sollecito and Knox to the police station. Sollecito translated, Knox understood and she shared her knowledge with Meredith's friends at the police station, all the while wanting to kill for a pizza and canoodle with her most recent hook-up.
 
The knife is significant in that Meredith's DNA was found in a grove on the blade. The amount of DNA on the knife was larger than the DNA that was recently attributed to Knox, so LCN isn't a good argument.

Other than this important fact, the knife is insignificant. Brad Cooper was convicted of murdering his wife and no murder weapon was produced. Same with Jason Young. Nothing except Meredith's DNA and the location of the knife are significant.

The latest test demonstrates that Knox handled the knife, per the prosecution theory. It was not Sollecito's DNA on his knife. Why wasn't Sollecito's DNA on his knife? It's like: Why wasn't Knox's DNA on her lamp?

Especially since it seems Raffaelo did most of the cooking in that "relationship"? He supposedly cooked the fish for them that night. And he supposedly prepare his own pasta or whatever it was on the morning of the murder when they had the supposed converstaion with Meredith in the kitchen.

IMO, I think RS cooked their meals for them because Amanda seems like she would be too lazy to do that. NO, I don't have any links or anything, this is JMO! Also, I believe RS would be the type to do that.

I view their relationship as Raffaelo being amazed that he got such a pretty girl, or maybe any girl for that matter, and Amanda using that to her advantage.
 
BBM

That part is just odd. Why would she not attend? If guilty, to dispel any suspicions that she didn't care about her friend. And if not guilt, well that just goes without saying?

It is very odd. As a roommate, even if she was unable to attend the Memorial Service due to "helping police", she should have made time to express condolances to the victim's family ... or was she too immature to do this too?
 
Statements where she mentions Patrick are that on November 5 she gave evidence that she knew that Patrick murdered Meredith, on November 6, she gave a signed statement to that effect. After her status was changed from witness to suspect, on November 6, she wrote that she "stood behind her statement about Patrick" and on November 7, she wrote that she "did not lie" in her statement about Patrick. On November 10, she told her mother that she lied in her statement about Patrick.

Knox definitely tried to neutralize her statements about Patrick in her two letters from prison, but it appears that she wanted to keep the Patrick option open ... perhaps hoping that Patrick had no alibi (she knew that the bar was empty that night), perhaps hoping that her letters of spinny "I'm confused by my own imaginings" would be a get out of jail free key. She wasn't prepared to put in writing that she told a whopper lie about Patrick, but she wanted to make the statement fuzzy, ambiguous and confusing enough that she might soon be released. She probably thought that she could sort Patrick out later, from Germany or Seattle.

When that didn't work, she confessed the lie to her mother, perhaps realizing that the Patrick story wasn't panning out. Believe it or not, her mother didn't say anything to authorities either. It was days before the Professor from Germany returned to Italy to give a statement that he closed the bar down with Patrick on the night of the murder, a full two weeks after Knox first accused Patrick of murder. At no time did she volunteer information about the lie other than to her mother.

And honestly, what could the mother have done? She knew how guilty it would make Amanda look if they now came out and said oh, sorry, she actually lied about Patrick. She was caught in a tough spot. And she chose to keep her mouth shut to benefit her daughter.
 
Especially since it seems Raffaelo did most of the cooking in that "relationship"? He supposedly cooked the fish for them that night. And he supposedly prepare his own pasta or whatever it was on the morning of the murder when they had the supposed converstaion with Meredith in the kitchen.

IMO, I think RS cooked their meals for them because Amanda seems like she would be too lazy to do that. NO, I don't have any links or anything, this is JMO! Also, I believe RS would be the type to do that.

I view their relationship as Raffaelo being amazed that he got such a pretty girl, or maybe any girl for that matter, and Amanda using that to her advantage.

Knox gave a statement claiming that a benefit of being with Sollecito was that "he cooked for her". It is documented that he cooked pasta lunch at the cottage on November 1 and he cooked fish dinner at his apartment that evening. On November 1, he cooked lunch and supper for Knox. On November 2, he prepared lunch for Knox, which she enjoyed after allegedly showering at the cottage on the morning of November 2 (in the crime scene). In the time period that we know, Sollecito cooked all meals, yet Knox's DNA was on his knife and his wasn't.

Apparently Knox played a game with men she didn't know where they made faces at each other. Pre-sportsex ice-breaker? Apparently that landed her in the sack three times not counting Sollecito. She was definitely experimenting with what she could use to her advantage, testing her boundaries.

After the pasta lunch on November 1, this is where Sollecito commented that Meredith looked cute in her boyfriend's jeans and Knox noticed that Meredith did something in the laundry area, although she cannot say whether Meredith started the laundry or picked up the laundry, even though the laundry is directly visible from the kitchen, where they were eating the November 1 lunch pasta. One might have to look at 2007 reports to find confirmation of the fact that Sollecito commented that Meredith looked cute in her boyfriend's jeans the day that she was murdered.

Regarding all meals that we are aware of, either Knox and Sollecito had meals with his friends, or he prepared meals. I believe the first meal he prepared was a mushroom risotto the night they met.

Knox cannot relay a romantic dinner that she prepared for Sollecito, or a non-romantic dinner that she prepared for him? Per her statement, he cooked for her.
 
BBM

By avoiding making a clear, unambiguous statement regarding Patrick Lumumba's innocence, yet declaring that she was not at the scene of the crime, it appears that Knox was attempting to obfuscate the facts. Both cannot be true. Knox could not declare that Patrick was guilty, or that she could imagine that Patrick was guilty, if she was not there. That bizarre claim obviously did not clear her of the murder. That lie made things worse, and it didn't look good that she'd been lying for days about her activities on the night of the murder.

That's also the basis for her conviction for slander that has been upheld by all courts.

She continues to lie. That liars cannot be trusted to give a true statement seems to elude many. Knox is a well documented liar, like Casey Anthony, but each time the lies are excused, like Casey Anthony.

Yes, exactly. And I loved your other post which explained the difference betwen False Accusation and False Confession. A false, or coerced, confession would have been something which was detrimental to her. As in, she was really innocent, but she claimed she was guilty and committed the murder, and thus she was charged for a crime she didn't commit.

The blaming of Patrick was actually beneficial to her at the time she was saying it, from her state of mind. Patrick took the heat off of her. Patrick led investigators away from her. The only reason she had to claim she was at the cottage, was to support her claim that Patrick did it. Because how else was she going to explain to prosecutors how she knew that Patrick did it? There was no other way. She would have to have been a witness to Patrick's crime, for her to even attempt to blame him. So he had to insert herself into the crime, but she did so in a very minimal way, by just being on the outside and "hearing" something. But yes, the important part in all of that is that she saw Patrick.

So how is that a forced confession?? Coming from her state of mind, that was not detrimental to her. That was beneficial to her, in that she could say she saw Patrick committing the murder.

It was not a forced confession, as in, "yes, it must have been me who did this to Meredith. Yes, I remember something vague, that I was there and I was holding the knife, and Meredith was screaming, and I did something to her. I can't recall exactly, but I know I did something to her." Did she say something along those lines? No, she said Patrick did something to Meredith.

How this accusation panned out is not the point. It didn't end up benefitting her, because Patrick was taken out of the picture with his alibi, and what was left was a lying Amanda. But at the time she said it, she thought it would be beneficial to her, her state of mind at the time of her statements regarding Patrick was that it would end up benefitting her.

There goes the "forced confession" theory.
 
Knox gave a statement claiming that a benefit of being with Sollecito was that "he cooked for her". It is documented that he cooked pasta lunch at the cottage on November 1 and he cooked fish dinner at his apartment that evening. On November 1, he cooked lunch and supper for Knox. On November 2, he prepared lunch for Knox, which she enjoyed after allegedly showeing at the cottage on the morning of November 2 (in the crime scene). In the time period that we know, Sollecito cooked all meals, yet Knox's DNA was on his knife and his wasn't.

Apparently Knox played a game with men she didn't know where they made faces at each other. Pre-sportsex ice-breaker? Apparently that landed her in the sack three times not counting Sollecito. She was definitely experimenting with what she could use to her advantage, testing her boundaries.

After the pasta lunch on November 1, this is where Sollecito commented that Meredith looked cute in her boyfriend's jeans and Knox noticed that Meredith did something in the laundry area, although she cannot say whether Meredith started the laundry or picked up the laundry, even though the laundry is directly visible from the kitchen, where they were eating the November 1 lunch pasta. One might have to look at 2007 reports to find confirmation of that fact that Sollecito commented that Meredith looked cute in her boyfriend's jeans the day that she was murdered.

Regarding all meals that we are aware of, either Knox and Sollecito had meals with his friends, or he prepared meals.
Did Knox happen to mention a romantic dinner that she prepared for Sollecito, perhaps a non-romantic dinner that she prepared for him?

It probably went something like this: RS would be preparing the food, cutting up the vegetables and meat, etc., and then cooking it, while Amanda would be laying on the sofa playing on the computer and sharing her infinite wisdom with him. All her deep thoughts and ramblings on which she likes to go into such detail about in her various statements. SHe probably blabbered on the whole time he was cooking. Then he probably brought the plate of food to her, put it in front of her, and they would eat while she continued her blabbering. Then he would take her plate to the kitchen and proceed to clean up and do the dishes, while she gave him a "back rub." And watched him washing the dishes, maybe sitting on the counter and blabbering on. Afterwards, meaning when he was done cleaning up the kitchen, they would both retreat to the sofa or to the bed where she would continue her blabbering.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
128
Guests online
3,429
Total visitors
3,557

Forum statistics

Threads
603,288
Messages
18,154,378
Members
231,696
Latest member
2772267227
Back
Top