Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

[geevee]

Why would she sit on her bed with her back to the door. She was planning on studying, using the text book that she borrowed and had to return the following day. If she was going to study on her bed, why wouldn't she use her pillow to make herself more comfortable ... meaning that she would be facing the door.

Allegedly, Guede smashed Filomina's bedroom window with a 9 pound rock. Prior to doing this, he had scale the wall to open the exterior shutters. Then he had to smash the window and then climb the wall and open the window and then the interior shutters before climbing in the window. He did all of this without leaving any trace of grass or mud from outside ... and also without disturbing the broken glass that lay neatly on the exterior of the window sill. Then, he allegedly ransacked Filomina's closet and then he used the toilet. With all of this going on while Meredith is studying, how it is possible that she ignored it all and sat on her bed with her back to the door?

Why couldn't RG have knocked on the door, MK opens it and the attack begins, and the broken window comes last as cover? Maybe he followed her home?

Did anyone hear the window break?

I saw a comment from AK that she knew of RG and said he was called 'shaky' or something like that? And she did not like him? I'm still trying to figure out why the police believe they knew each other to such a degree to get stoned together and have a sex party with an unwilling participant, when his MO is knife wielding burglar.

 

[aa9511]

What I have noticed from the supporters of her innocence, is that all doors are left open. In other words, all possibilities are open and nothing is ruled out, no matter how low the probability is. Or what obstacles had to be overcome to get there. Or what the evidence actually shows. The evidence is this case is actually not evidence at all, it's merely some non-existent glob just sitting there, meant to be ignored.

We are supposed to believe that either Rudy broke in through the window, which there is no evidence of, and then attacked Meredith. Using various open possibilites. Such as, restraining her from the back, or restraining her by sitting on top of her, or by strangling her or suffocating her first, or.......INSERT ANYTHING.

Or, Meredith did indeed open the door for him, and he walked right in, allegedly to use the bathroom, but then decided to instead burglarize the house and kill Meredith, even though he by necessity would have known she was there. Restraining her using - select from options A-Z.

Or, he again came in through the window (leaving no evidence), but Meredith came in and startled him. Then he went through the motions of attacking her, using various possibilites, choose any from A-Z, in which he was able to restrain both her hands, feet, and mouth at the same time as stabbing her.

Or, Amanda, Rudy, and RS were indeed all there. Rudy was let in through the door. But either Rudy then decides to burglarize/attack Meredith even knowing 3 people were there with him.

Or he somehow convinces Amanda and RS to sit still while he goes about his business. Then convinces them to cover-up and stage a burglary afterwards.

Then convinces them to lie about their own actions and make it look like they really did it, instead of him.

In the above sceario, he still would have had to restrain Meredith alone, using any option A-Z.

Or Amanda, RS, and Rudy were all at the house together. Rudy was let in through the front door. Something happened, Rudy and RS and Amanda all 3 took part in restraining/stabbing her. The exact responsbilities of each remains unknown, as in who exactly restrained her, who stabbed her, etc.. The point being all 3 were complicit in the murder, it is still murder even if you are complicit in it. That would allow for the questions regarding the window (no evidence) and the questions regarding the restraining/stabbing (one person couldn't have done it). Evidence pointing to more than one doing it. That answers all of that.

And yet, out of all the numerous, possibly hundred of possibilities left open by the supporters of her innocence, I wonder why this last one is so notably LEFT OUT. Even though it fits the evidence and answers many questions.

You would think one more possibility wouldn't hurt, seeing there are so many left open? How come that one is left out?

 

[geevee]

The bedroom is 12' x 11'6". The bed is 3' x 6'. The desk is est: 3' x 2'. We have 138 square feet. Subtract the bed, desk, night stand (1' x 1') and wardrobe (est: 3' x 2') and we have
138 - 18 - 6 - 1 - 6 = 138 - 31 = 107 square feet.

How is 107 square feet not enough space for three people to attack one person?

I meant not enough space for all those people fighting and not knocking everything in the room over. lol

 

[otto]

So maybe his shoes were off during (or came off in the struggle) and after using the bathroom he put his shoes on and walked out, leaving shoeprints? There was blood on the faucet (and the sink too?), whose dna was in that?

Just theorizing.

The mixed blood samples in the small bathroom belong to Knox and Meredith. The bloody footprint on the bathmat has been attributed to Sollecito - that is a conclusion of the court. Defense lawyers attempted to argue that the print belonged to Guede, but Guede is taller, his foot is longer and narrower. Sollecito has a distinct "hammer" toe that is compatible with the "hammer" toe print on the bath mat.

 

[Harmony 2]

Why would she sit on her bed with her back to the door. She was planning on studying, using the text book that she borrowed and had to return the following day. If she was going to study on her bed, why wouldn't she use her pillow to make herself more comfortable ... meaning that she would be facing the door.

Allegedly, Guede smashed Filomina's bedroom window with a 9 pound rock. Prior to doing this, he had scale the wall to open the exterior shutters. Then he had to smash the window and then climb the wall and open the window and then the interior shutters before climbing in the window. He did all of this without leaving any trace of grass or mud from outside ... and also without disturbing the broken glass that lay neatly on the exterior of the window sill. Then, he allegedly ransacked Filomina's closet and then he used the toilet. With all of this going on while Meredith is studying, how it is possible that she ignored it all and sat on her bed with her back to the door?

Rudy breaks in when no one is home. Filomena's room is dark. He makes himself at home then later uses the bathroom. While he is in the bathroom Meredith arrives home and does not note the break in, walks directly to her room, sits on her bed to remove her shoes, or look for messages on cell phone, or remove her jacket. Rudy becomes aware someone is home and does not flush to alert them of his presence. He quietly walks down the hall then the attack occurs...

I don't mind agreeing to disagree Otto... :seeya:

 

[otto]

Why couldn't RG have knocked on the door, MK opens it and the attack begins, and the broken window comes last as cover? Maybe he followed her home?

Did anyone hear the window break?

I saw a comment from AK that she knew of RG and said he was called 'shaky' or something like that? And she did not like him? I'm still trying to figure out why the police believe they knew each other to such a degree to get stoned together and have a sex party with an unwilling participant, when his MO is knife wielding burglar.

There is no logical explanation for Guede staging a break in. If someone that lived at the cottage was involved in the murder, that person would want to stage a break in to disguise the fact that the murderer walked through the front door.

Guede and Knox had partied prior to the murder - using drugs.

 

[aa9511]

BBM

Hiya aa.

I do agree, nothing makes a great deal of sense about the scene, while I have a bit of trouble with RG acting alone (bloody shoeprints as well as bare footprints) I have more trouble trying to fit 4 people into the room and 3 committing the crime.

I appreciate you (and everyone else) being patient while I work through it and ask some lamebrained questions, I've of course heard all about it over the years, but haven't looked through the evidence or theories until just lately so never really formed an opinion.

I don't wonder at all why it's gone on so long or there are definite lines drawn between believers of AK/RS' guilt or innocence, I haven't arrived at a belief yet, not even sure I ever will. But I'll try to come to some 'personal verdict' if possible, I don't like hanging chads. lol

bbm

LOL! Whatever decision you come to, or even undecided, I will respect that

 

[aa9511]

Yes, sorry, I realized that after I posted, they've attributed shoeprints to RG and the bare footprint to RS (even though I don't agree with that conclusion based on the measurement chart).

Geevee, you are catching up fast!

 

[otto]

I meant not enough space for all those people fighting and not knocking everything in the room over. lol

Things were knocked all over the place. Some of Meredith's books and belongings were on the floor. The glass of water on her nightstand was not disturbed.

 

[SMK]

Guede did not track blood into the large bathroom, and he did have blood on his shoes after the murder, so he used the bathroom prior to the murder.

Excellent deductive reasoning.

 

[geevee]

What I have noticed from the supporters of her innocence, is that all doors are left open. In other words, all possibilities are open and nothing is ruled out, no matter how low the probability is. Or what obstacles had to be overcome to get there. Or what the evidence actually shows. The evidence is this case is actually not evidence at all, it's merely some non-existent glob just sitting there, meant to be ignored.

We are supposed to believe that either Rudy broke in through the window, which there is no evidence of, and then attacked Meredith. Using various open possibilites. Such as, restraining her from the back, or restraining her by sitting on top of her, or by strangling her or suffocating her first, or.......INSERT ANYTHING.

Or, Meredith did indeed open the door for him, and he walked right in, allegedly to use the bathroom, but then decided to instead burglarize the house and kill Meredith, even though he by necessity would have known she was there. Restraining her using - select from options A-Z.

Or, he again came in through the window (leaving no evidence), but Meredith came in and startled him. Then he went through the motions of attacking her, using various possibilites, choose any from A-Z, in which he was able to restrain both her hands, feet, and mouth at the same time as stabbing her.

Or, Amanda, Rudy, and RS were indeed all there. Rudy was let in through the door. But either Rudy then decides to burglarize/attack Meredith even knowing 3 people were there with him.

Or he somehow convinces Amanda and RS to sit still while he goes about his business. Then convinces them to cover-up and stage a burglary afterwards.

Then convinces them to lie about their own actions and make it look like they really did it, instead of him.

In the above sceario, he still would have had to restrain Meredith alone, using any option A-Z.

Or Amanda, RS, and Rudy were all at the house together. Rudy was let in through the front door. Something happened, Rudy and RS and Amanda all 3 took part in restraining/stabbing her. The exact responsbilities of each remains unknown, as in who exactly restrained her, who stabbed her, etc.. The point being all 3 were complicit in the murder, it is still murder even if you are complicit in it. That would allow for the questions regarding the window (no evidence) and the questions regarding the restraining/stabbing (one person couldn't have done it). Evidence pointing to more than one doing it. That answers all of that.

And yet, out of all the numerous, possibly hundred of possibilities left open by the supporters of her innocence, I wonder why this last one is so notably LEFT OUT. Even though it fits the evidence and answers many questions.

You would think one more possibility wouldn't hurt, seeing there are so many left open? How come that one is left out?

In all cases I have followed, I begin with the firm notion the person is not guilty, then I let the evidence on both sides convince me one way or the other. Not because that is our system of 'justice' or any high-minded ideals, but an accusation can be as deadly as a death sentence, once lodged against someone, they are seen as guilty by the public and must prove their innocence.

Not too long ago I even saw someone post similar thoughts here at WS on another thread, that only guilty people are accused because cops know who is and who isn't guilty. Reading that was a little stunning but I suppose probably shouldn't have been, I see on message boards how folks can be so quick to judge another just because someone else says they've done something wrong. I'd be terrified if any such would be on a jury where I was being judged.

Actually (and you've probably noticed it by now lol) I don't even read the backstories of cases except for what the jury will get, I don't want to be swayed by opinions over the evidence, or give myself preconceived notions about the case before hearing and seeing the evidence, I try to look at each case like a juror, not a prosecutor or defense attny.

 

[aa9511]

I meant he went for the knife when he couldn't control and rape her by holding her down. That could account for a lot of the bruising. If you've ever wrestled as a kid, the first move in pinning your opponent is to control their movements, if you get on their waist with them lying face up or down, all you have to do is get their arms under your knees - did she have bruising on her fore or upper arms? I've only read about the facial ones but they say her body shows she was restrained by more than 1.

Yes, but that means he would have had to render her somewhat unconscious or something of the sort, to be able to do the actual stabbings without her fighting back. Because one hand would have to be removed to hold the knife, that means his "control stance" would be messed up. He would no longer have that hand to use to restrain her, as in the above example by using a "wrestler move" with him on top of her. I don't see how he could control both of her arms by using that move, and stabbing her at the same time.

On her front is not feasible for the stabs, she would have had to have been on her back. I just don't see how it is possible with one of his hands used for stabbing.

 

[geevee]

The mixed blood samples in the small bathroom belong to Knox and Meredith. The bloody footprint on the bathmat has been attributed to Sollecito - that is a conclusion of the court. Defense lawyers attempted to argue that the print belonged to Guede, but Guede is taller, his foot is longer and narrower. Sollecito has a distinct "hammer" toe that is compatible with the "hammer" toe print on the bath mat.

But the measurement of the big toe does not match RS? I lost the link that had the chart and all the info, if anyone has it could you repost it? Thanks very much.

 

[geevee]

bbm

LOL! Whatever decision you come to, or even undecided, I will respect that

Same here, sister.

 

[TorisMom003]

Things were knocked all over the place. Some of Meredith's books and belongings were on the floor. The glass of water on her nightstand was not disturbed.

Then where is the evidence IN the room that AK and RS was there the night that Meredith was murdered? How is it possible that the only evidence of someone else being in the room is of RG?

 

[SMK]

Things were knocked all over the place. Some of Meredith's books and belongings were on the floor. The glass of water on her nightstand was not disturbed.

Odd that the water was not disturbed. I guess somehow that particular point in space escaped the chaos. I suppose the lone wolf theorist would take the glass of water as a sign that only 2 pairs of footsteps - his and the victim's - were shaking the floor and not 4?

 

[otto]

But the measurement of the big toe does not match RS? I lost the link that had the chart and all the info, if anyone has it could you repost it? Thanks very much.

"A footprint in Kercher's blood on a blue bathmat is another story. It was attributed to Sollecito by the prosecution and what appeared to be a doctored version of the print was attributed to Guede by the defense."

http://www.newsweek.com/heres-how-evidence-stacks-amanda-knox-81211

 

[otto]

Odd that the water was not disturbed. I guess somehow that particular point in space escaped the chaos. I suppose the lone wolf theorist would take the glass of water as a sign that only 2 pairs of footsteps - his and the victim's - were shaking the floor and not 4?

It suggests to me that Meredith was not on the bed when she was attacked.

The building is a very solid, old, stone building, so I really doubt that there would be any footsteps shaking the floor.

 

[minazoe]

What if...ak and rs were actually at the house in her room when the whole thing went down...and they hid like little chickens..?

What if after the went all over the apartment freaking out and touching stuff?

What if they were tripping on LSD? Or mushrooms and went back and forth from rs house to the crime scene? Waiting to come down and unable to make any decisions....


Just imagining...

 

[otto]

Then where is the evidence IN the room that AK and RS was there the night that Meredith was murdered? How is it possible that the only evidence of someone else being in the room is of RG?

Are you thinking that the crime scene is Meredith's bedroom, or the cottage? If it's the cottage, then there is ample evidence of all three culprits. If it is the bedroom, then we can exclude the broken window, the bloody bathmat, the unflushed toilet, all the luminol and DNA evidence and ask the critical question: how is it possible that Knox's lamp - the only light source for her bedroom - was placed on the floor in Meredith's bedroom and there is no evidence of Knox's DNA on her lamp?