Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[otto]

Trying to find it in Massei:

He concluded she had lain in one position for some time (due to blood soaked strap and matching marks on floor) and was moved later and the bra taken off long after the attack and death (no blood where bra was so she had stopped exhaling blood droplets)--

he felt Guede would have fled the scene early, and the only one interested in returning later and moving the body would be one who resided in the cottage --really need to be able to refer you to the passage, but am having trouble finding it in the 200+ pp document. Otto, do you know where it is?

I skimmed the document and didn't find it, but will keep my eyes open and post the page # when I find it.

 

[otto]

Doesn't the glass all over the inside of the room rule out the rock having been thrown from the inside?

There are two sets of shutters, one on the inside, one on the outside. Based on the placement of the glass on the outside of the window sill, glass that did not fall to the ground, it appears that the window was broken with the outer shutters closed.

 

[Yellow]

The negative TMB test shows there is very little blood. You need enough white blood cells for DNA, but Luminol reacts to the red blood cells without DNA. So it is all about the sensitivity. There isn't even any argument in court about the lack of DNA in the footprints. It can't be bleach as already shown.

AK was bleeding herself. RG's foot does not match the footprint on the bathmat, and his DNA on that math is just speculation not based on any evidence. He did not leave any footprints, only shoe prints. I don't understand why evidence is ignored just to come up with alternative scenarios.

The defense's argument is that there is not MK DNA in those footprints, nor is there blood. I don't read italian but i find it doubtful that her lawyers would not have brought out that pointing considering that all of the pro innocence websites make that point to be such a big deal, and even the pro guilty ones concede pretty much that it is only AK DNA, thus suggesting no MK DNA bc they would say MK DNA.

You seem to concede there is very little blood which makes it curious what she is tracking in if not blood or bleach. I thought the whole prosecution story was that AK was running around and there was all sorts of bloody footprints with mixed MK blood and AK DNA

What evidence is there of AK bleeding? Where is there any evidence of AK blood? Is she bleeding from her foot?

RG left bloody footprints in his shoes from the murder room out the front door. He admitted he owned the type of shoe that makes the print and the size fits his feet.

Evidence is not being "ignored"; to the contrary really, I think mostly all the posters on this site are well versed in the evidence, some view it differently than others and find it sufficient to base a guilty conviction w no evidence of the defendants in the murder room and other evidence suggesting that the defense side is a possibility.

 

[Yellow]

The negative TMB test shows there is very little blood. You need enough white blood cells for DNA, but Luminol reacts to the red blood cells without DNA. So it is all about the sensitivity. It can't be bleach as already shown.

AK was bleeding herself. RG's foot does not match the footprint on the bathmat, and his DNA on that math is just speculation not based on any evidence. He did not leave any footprints, only shoe prints. I don't understand why evidence is ignored just to come up with alternative scenarios.

ETA: If it is a rule that Luminol positive traces must contain DNA then it would have been easy enough for the defense to prove this.

No one is saying that luminol positive traces must contain DNA. But if that is MK blood why are not they picking up her DNA too? Respectfully,I really do not understand the point you are trying to make bc maybe you are misunderstanding what I am saying

The prosecutor claims AK is running around tracking in MK blood. Ok,even if you accept for a moment that it is blood (which is disputed), why are not these tests positive for MK DNA? Blood contains DNA doesn't it and they are identifying AK DNA, why aren't they getting MK DNA in those luminol prints if that is suppsoedly her blood?

If this was this bloody murder scene, we should have bloody footprints from AK and RS just like the shoe prints from RG. Where are they?

 

[Amber29]

Trying to find it in Massei:

He concluded she had lain in one position for some time (due to blood soaked strap and matching marks on floor) and was moved later and the bra taken off long after the attack and death (no blood where bra was so she had stopped exhaling blood droplets)--

he felt Guede would have fled the scene early, and the only one interested in returning later and moving the body would be one who resided in the cottage --really need to be able to refer you to the passage, but am having trouble finding it in the 200+ pp document. Otto, do you know where it is?

The majority of the evidence of her being moved along with the details of the autopsy were part of the Micheli report. Which I believe the full translation wasn't released due to the extreme details of the autopsy.

You can read summaries of the Micheli report and Massei may have covered it some but not near like Micheli.

The proof he uses is the lividity in the shoulder and an indention in her shoulder left by the bra strap. As well as what you mention.

 

[geevee]

There are two sets of shutters, one on the inside, one on the outside. Based on the placement of the glass on the outside of the window sill, glass that did not fall to the ground, it appears that the window was broken with the outer shutters closed.

Wouldn't there be marring/dent/something on the shutter wood from the rock hitting it? Didn't they say it was a 9 pound rock?

 

[sherlockh]

No one is saying that luminol positive traces must contain DNA. But if that is MK blood why are not they picking up her DNA too? Respectfully,I really do not understand the point you are trying to make bc maybe you are misunderstanding what I am saying

The prosecutor claims AK is running around tracking in MK blood. Ok,even if you accept for a moment that it is blood (which is disputed), why are not these tests positive for MK DNA? Blood contains DNA doesn't it and they are identifying AK DNA, why aren't they getting MK DNA in those luminol prints if that is suppsoedly her blood?

If this was this bloody murder scene, we should have bloody footprints from AK and RS just like the shoe prints from RG. Where are they?

Because there were not enough white blood cells to get her DNA. It is that simple. AK was bleeding. Here blood was found in the bathroom.

I don't agree that all must have stepped in blood, and there is evidence of a cleaning taking place after all.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Stefano Bonassi - this google translate is messy but he confirms the friendship and what they did.

page 128

QUESTION - Okay. What kind of relationship you had with these

Girls, you often you attended?

ANSWER - We had close friendship and yes we were dating

in the sense that within the scope of housing often we met and we were together.

QUESTION - At home or in your home?

ANSWER - Dimly, so to get a coffee, stay a little 'together here.

QUESTION - You are also going out together?

ANSWER-Yes.

QUESTION - How many times?

ANSWER

We went once for dinner and once in disco.

QUESTION - And there were always all four, you were all and four, and all four of them?

ANSWER - A dinner was missing someone, can not remember if Mezzetti and Romanelli and Mezzetti dance and Rornanelli were not there.

APPLICATION - The relationship between Amanda and Meredith were like? I want to say has never witnessed discussions between them?

ANSWER - No.

QUESTION - Have you ever heard the stories about discussions, complaints?

ANSWER - No.

QUESTION - And then the relationship between the four girls?

ANSWER - I is not nothing strange here, that I have not ever witnessed a quarrel.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Wouldn't there be marring/dent/something on the shutter wood from the rock hitting it? Didn't they say it was a 9 pound rock?

Yep, there was a dent on the inner shutter when the rock hit it being thrown from the outside.

 

[MichaelSmith]

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html
Photo #10

 

[miley]

1. He could have just been an opportunist. First trip was to visit the guys downstairs and then decided to b&e when he realized no one was home.

2. He might have used the stolen keys to go downstairs briefly. We should take a look at the photos because something happened downstairs and he mentions hearing noises there which is another one of his cover stories.

3. Agree with you. He was on the toilet when Meredith walked in and he attacked within minutes.

I'm still curious about why kokomani's car was parked in the driveway that night and why do you suppose he mentions downstairs. (I don't think it was the cat) There are some parts of his diary that are hard to ignore - chilling in my opinion..

I knocked on the door, but no one answered. I went downstairs to the guys’ place, but no one was there either. So then, I waited in the yard.​

Mk arrives, meets rudy at the door

(she) then took the keys out of her purse, opened the door, and we entered. There wasn't anyone in the house because it was dark everywhere, in the kitchen, in the living room, then she yelled "Anybody here,"​

Mk realizes money is stolen and he helps her look for it

Also, I checked the other rooms but everything was in order. So I tried to speak to her and calm her down, saying that a girl shouldn't get upset or she'll get wrinkles, and she laughed. I told her to laugh because everything would eventually work out.​

His message to amanda

Speak the truth. What are you hiding? If it wasn't Raffaele, who was there on that night? One of your many druggie-lovers you were bringing home? Was he someone from the "Merlin," "Domus," was it all of you downstairs?​

 

[MichaelSmith]

I'm still curious about why kokomani's car was parked in the driveway that night and why do you suppose he mentions downstairs. (I don't think it was the cat) There are some parts of his diary that are hard to ignore - chilling in my opinion..

I knocked on the door, but no one answered. I went downstairs to the guys’ place, but no one was there either. So then, I waited in the yard.​

Mk arrives, meets rudy at the door

(she) then took the keys out of her purse, opened the door, and we entered. There wasn't anyone in the house because it was dark everywhere, in the kitchen, in the living room, then she yelled "Anybody here,"​

Mk realizes money is stolen and he helps her look for it

Also, I checked the other rooms but everything was in order. So I tried to speak to her and calm her down, saying that a girl shouldn't get upset or she'll get wrinkles, and she laughed. I told her to laugh because everything would eventually work out.​

His message to amanda

Speak the truth. What are you hiding? If it wasn't Raffaele, who was there on that night? One of your many druggie-lovers you were bringing home? Was he someone from the "Merlin," "Domus," was it all of you downstairs?​

(she) then took the keys out of her purse, opened the door, and we entered. There wasn't anyone in the house because it was dark everywhere, in the kitchen, in the living room, then she yelled "Anybody here,"​

That part I find believable except instead of they entered, he heard the keys and she entered asking "Anybody here"

Also, I checked the other rooms but everything was in order. So I tried to speak to her and calm her down, saying that a girl shouldn't get upset or she'll get wrinkles, and she laughed. I told her to laugh because everything would eventually work out.​

He'd checked all the rooms for sure. She's freaking out finding him there.

Speak the truth. What are you hiding? If it wasn't Raffaele, who was there on that night? One of your many druggie-lovers you were bringing home? Was he someone from the "Merlin," "Domus," was it all of you downstairs?​

[/quote]

He plays the role of an innocent witness who can't identify the killer. Notice how he even wonders was it everyone from downstairs who did it? In another part of his diary he asks himself "Who is Raffaele"

 

[SMK]

The majority of the evidence of her being moved along with the details of the autopsy were part of the Micheli report. Which I believe the full translation wasn't released due to the extreme details of the autopsy.

You can read summaries of the Micheli report and Massei may have covered it some but not near like Micheli.

The proof he uses is the lividity in the shoulder and an indention in her shoulder left by the bra strap. As well as what you mention.

Thank you for this, Amber.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Have charges been re-filed?

Feb 5, 2013 4:01pm
"In November 2011, the Court of Appeal in Florence overturned Mignini’s conviction for lack of jurisdiction and referred the case to the prosecutor in Turin to decide whether to re-file the charges"

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/amanda-knoxs-slander-trial-moved-to-florence/

I've seen several posts in other message boards stating that the charges were re-filed and the trial is to start January 15, 2014 in Turin. I can't find a link anywhere to back this up! IDK...

 

[SMK]

The majority of the evidence of her being moved along with the details of the autopsy were part of the Micheli report. Which I believe the full translation wasn't released due to the extreme details of the autopsy.

You can read summaries of the Micheli report and Massei may have covered it some but not near like Micheli.

The proof he uses is the lividity in the shoulder and an indention in her shoulder left by the bra strap. As well as what you mention.

Thanks so much - and I did just read the English summary of the Micheli report. It was when the CSI and police were examining the room, the position of the body, all items near the body, all marks on the floor, that they concluded through lividity, blood stains, etc., that the body had been moved from it's position on its side near the wardrobe , to on the back in the center of the room; the bra cut off and left on the floor. (and the duvet placed on top, corner up so a foot stuck out, and the door locked)

As per Micheli: Whether or not this was a sensible thing to do on the part of offenders, it apparently was done: Whether from folly or panic, or a need to wipe out the true scenario and replace it with a false one. In so doing, he claims they unwittingly left signs of their own presence.

 

[SMK]

I've seen several posts in other message boards stating that the charges were re-filed and the trial is to start January 15, 2014 in Turin. I can't find a link anywhere to back this up! IDK...

I thought I had read this, too, that he would begin trial right after Knox verdict. I thought it was on IIP, but then could not find it.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Thanks so much - and I did just read the English summary of the Micheli report. It was when the CSI and police were examining the room, the position of the body, all items near the body, all marks on the floor, that they concluded through lividity, blood stains, etc., that the body had been moved from it's position on its side near the wardrobe , to on the back in the center of the room; the bra cut off and left on the floor. (and the duvet placed on top, corner up so a foot stuck out, and the door locked)

As per Micheli: Whether or not this was a sensible thing to do on the part of offenders, it apparently was done: Whether from folly or panic, or a need to wipe out the true scenario and replace it with a false one. In so doing, he claims they unwittingly left signs of their own presence.

From Micheli

The bra, and the finding is objective, resale was a few inches away from the girl's right foot in an area from blood drawn at all, yet it is thoroughly soaked right shoulder strap, also, incidentally, the couple was seen with absolute evidence the same kind of pinpoint spots found on the torso. This means the victim had rolled up her shirt to ensure her neck when she was struck (as we shall see, this is an empirical observation of fundamental importance to give a sexual nature, aggression), otherwise you would not see the spots on either the skin or the bra, but the latter had regularly wearing. Photos nos. 268 and 770, fully illustrated by the defense [of Guede], then clearly show the signs of that piece of underwear (one vertical strip, rather sharp) and on the body of the young woman on the floor below: a further demonstration that the bra was removed after that the blood had been able to affect the shoulder strap for an appreciable time, precisely that which appears when the discovery soaked.'

<modsnip>

This photo shows what Micheli was talking about. This is cropped from one of the photos showing Meredith's body. You can see the two parallel lines running on either side of the tile seam. There was a corresponding pattern on Meredith's back when her body was rolled over. It's obviously an artifact caused by the tile seam, not a mark left by her bra strap. Micheli concocted an unsupportable forensic claim that was never even hypothesized at the Massei trial.

Photo source
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/nov_2_and_3_edited.zip

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/dec_18.zip

 

[Harmony 2]

*use thumbnails for graphic crime scene photos*
These are the steps:

Right click photo and save to your pictures- name file
Go advanced
click Manage attachments
Browse and select picture
Click open
Click upload
Submit reply

 

[MichaelSmith]

The prosecution never went near the body moved hours later and undressed/staged sexual assault theory because the photos show aspirated blood on Meredith's breasts proving the bra had been removed as she lay dying taking her last breaths before going unconscious.

 

[SMK]

It would seem to me that if you take out the elements of a staging and moving of the body, you are left with a generic break-and-entry which escalated to homicide. The question is, why were these elements seen and introduced? Why was this viewed by police and CSI as a not normal and not typical crime scene? What about all the other various bits RE Knox and Sollecito which add to it? If this was a typical burglary which escalated to assault and homicide, why wasn't it perceived as such from the beginning, and how did it ever reach the point it did?