Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#6

[SMK]

The prosecution never went near the body moved hours later and undressed/staged sexual assault theory because the photos show aspirated blood on Meredith's breasts proving the bra had been removed as she lay dying taking her last breaths before going unconscious.

But according to Fisher, Mignini did in fact speak of this very theory in open court.

 

[MichaelSmith]

It would seem to me that if you take out the elements of a staging and moving of the body, you are left with a generic break-and-entry which escalated to homicide. The question is, why were these elements seen and introduced? Why was this viewed by police and CSI as a not normal and not typical crime scene? What about all the other various bits RE Knox and Sollecito which add to it? If this was a typical burglary which escalated to assault and homicide, why wasn't it perceived as such from the beginning, and how did it ever reach the point it did?

Because they were keystone cops with no experience dealing with homicides and this was a railroad job lead by an infamous prosecutor known for his crazy crime theories.

The lead detective <modsnip> were suspended earlier this year and under investigation.

 

[geevee]

Because there were not enough white blood cells to get her DNA. It is that simple. AK was bleeding. Here blood was found in the bathroom.

I don't agree that all must have stepped in blood, and there is evidence of a cleaning taking place after all.

BBM

I'm very curious about this, can you give me details about what evidence there was of cleaning taking place?

 

[geevee]

Yep, there was a dent on the inner shutter when the rock hit it being thrown from the outside.

Thanks, so if it's clear which side of the shutter the rock hit, why is there any dispute about it having been thrown from outside? Just prosecution theory?

 

[geevee]

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html
Photo #10

I see it, thanks for the pic.

 

[Sigh Sister]

It would seem to me that if you take out the elements of a staging and moving of the body, you are left with a generic break-and-entry which escalated to homicide. The question is, why were these elements seen and introduced? Why was this viewed by police and CSI as a not normal and not typical crime scene? What about all the other various bits RE Knox and Sollecito which add to it? If this was a typical burglary which escalated to assault and homicide, why wasn't it perceived as such from the beginning, and how did it ever reach the point it did?

I had written a long post to explain why believe it reached the point it did and it disappeared! Grrrr! Im typing on my ipad which is a big pain, so rather than trying to re-type it all, i'll give you some suggestions. Read about Mignini and the Monster of Florence case and then read about dietrologia .

 

[SMK]

BBM

I'm very curious about this, can you give me details about what evidence there was of cleaning taking place?

It seems as though Massei or the original investigators believed there was a clean up.

If you read Injustice in Perugia's website, this is all dismissed as a lie.

I will admit that when everything which points to Knox and Sollecito's involvement (clean-up, staging of burglary, moving and staging of body, lies, false alibis, witnesses such as Quaintavalle, etc.) is knocked down by the defense and pro-innocence advocates, their involvement vanishes. You throw out the bath water, and there was never a baby.

But then , there is an interest in doing so. I guess either Knox and Sollecito were involved in some way, or they are the unluckiest people in the world.

 

[MichaelSmith]

It seems as though Massei or the original investigators believed there was a clean up.

If you read Injustice in Perugia's website, this is all dismissed as a lie.

I will admit that when everything which points to Knox and Sollecito's involvement (clean-up, staging of burglary, moving and staging of body, lies, false alibis, witnesses such as Quaintavalle, etc.) is knocked down by the defense and pro-innocence advocates, their involvement vanishes. You throw out the bath water, and there was never a baby.

But then , there is an interest in doing so. I guess either Knox and Sollecito were involved in some way, or they are the unluckiest people in the world.

Innocent people who are wrongfully convicted are the unluckiest people in the world.

 

[SMK]

All innocent people who are wrongfully convicted are the unluckiest people in the world.

True. If they are a couple of Ryan Fergesons, so be it. They are deserving of support, then.

I just find their situation a bit odder, for the reasons others do (unexplained things---lacking in the Ferguson case and perhaps others as well) --If they are innocent, I certainly would want to see them acquitted. I am in no way invested in their guilt.

But: if they have pulled one over on people, that's not right, either. There was a case in the US, where a man was "wrongfully accused, wrongfully convicted" and people rejoiced at his release. Until years later, DNA proved him to be guilty after all. (once more, I have forgotten the names: It was on an army base, and a man answered and ad about a dog, and killed the wife of an army professional, and her 2 children). ETA: His name was Timothy Hennis So yes, sometimes there is a con.

Hennis' 1986 conviction was overturned on appeal in 1988. At his new trial the following year, Hennis was acquitted. A free man, Hennis returned to his family and the military, serving with distinction in the First Gulf War, and as a Boy Scout leader in his community.

In 2006, police say DNA testing on a swab taken from Kathryn Eastburn's body linked Hennis to the crime. The Fifth Amendment's "double jeopardy" provision prevented North Carolina state officials from trying him again but authorities found a loophole: he was tried and convicted in military court. Hennis was later sentenced to death and is being held at the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kan.

But the case is not closed. Hennis, now 53, has appealed the 2006 conviction, claiming that the Army did not have jurisdiction to try him for the murders, an argument the government contests. Arguments are slated to begin in the case in late October at the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/soldier-convicted-eastburn-triple-murder-appeals/story?id=14421102

 

[geevee]

It seems as though Massei or the original investigators believed there was a clean up.

If you read Injustice in Perugia's website, this is all dismissed as a lie.

I will admit that when everything which points to Knox and Sollecito's involvement (clean-up, staging of burglary, moving and staging of body, lies, false alibis, witnesses such as Quaintavalle, etc.) is knocked down by the defense and pro-innocence advocates, their involvement vanishes. You throw out the bath water, and there was never a baby.But then , there is an interest in doing so. I guess either Knox and Sollecito were involved in some way, or they are the unluckiest people in the world.

BBM

That's where my head is going, the entire scene makes sense of a B&E (by one person) gone bad, and MK having been sexually assaulted after she was stabbed and probably after she died (moved to the center of the room, bra removed).

Trying to force AK and RS into the crime scene makes it what we've seen, confused, illogical and not well supported by the evidence. AK lived there, of course her dna is there, RS visited, his dna may well be found as well, but had he been involved in the crime I'd think there would be much more evidence of his presence. Oh yeah, they figured out how to clean up most of their dna but left RG's - I simply don't get how a jury bought it the first time.

 

[SMK]

BBM

That's where my head is going, the entire scene makes sense of a B&E (by one person) gone bad, and MK having been sexually assaulted after she was stabbed and probably after she died (moved to the center of the room, bra removed).

Trying to force AK and RS into the crime scene makes it what we've seen, confused, illogical and not well supported by the evidence. AK lived there, of course her dna is there, RS visited, his dna may well be found as well, but had he been involved in the crime I'd think there would be much more evidence of his presence. Oh yeah, they figured out how to clean up most of their dna but left RG's - I simply don't get how a jury bought it the first time.

Yes, many have concluded just as you have, as did I myself at one time. There are just certain questions which still linger and raise red flags. I will admit trying to fit Knox and Sollecito makes it a mess. Conversely, the prosecution would say going with the lone wolf leaves some big holes. I would hate to think this case has been a mistake. I have my doubts, though.

 

[SMK]

BBM

That's where my head is going, the entire scene makes sense of a B&E (by one person) gone bad, and MK having been sexually assaulted after she was stabbed and probably after she died (moved to the center of the room, bra removed).

Trying to force AK and RS into the crime scene makes it what we've seen, confused, illogical and not well supported by the evidence. AK lived there, of course her dna is there, RS visited, his dna may well be found as well, but had he been involved in the crime I'd think there would be much more evidence of his presence. Oh yeah, they figured out how to clean up most of their dna but left RG's - I simply don't get how a jury bought it the first time.

And for all we know, the judges/jurors are thinking the same. This is what I am dying to find out. We'll have to wait, unfortunately, until Jan 15 now.

 

[MichaelSmith]

True. If they are a couple of Ryan Fergesons, so be it. They are deserving of support, then.

I just find their situation a bit odder, for the reasons others do (unexplained things---lacking in the Ferguson case and perhaps others as well) --If they are innocent, I certainly would want to see them acquitted. I am in no way invested in their guilt.

But: if they have pulled one over on people, that's not right, either. There was a case in the US, where a man was "wrongfully accused, wrongfully convicted" and people rejoiced at his release. Until years later, DNA proved him to be guilty after all. (once more, I have forgotten the names: It was on an army base, and a man answered and ad about a dog, and killed the wife of an army professional, and her 2 children). ETA: His name was Timothy Hennis So yes, sometimes there is a con.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/soldier-convicted-eastburn-triple-murder-appeals/story?id=14421102

That's what I call cherry picking. Wrongful convictions, railroad jobs and police misconduct aren't limited to Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and Ryan Ferguson. It happens in every country all the time even though the vast bulk of convictions are right and proper. It only takes a small % of a very large number to be wrongful and there's a hellva lot of innocent people sitting in prisons who shouldn't be there and you hear about people being released and given new trials in the news every week.

 

[geevee]

And for all we know, the judges/jurors are thinking the same. This is what I am dying to find out. We'll have to wait, unfortunately, until Jan 15 now.

Will there be a report issued with the verdict or, like here in the US, just the verdict? I'd love to know the reasoning behind a verdict, whichever way they decide.

 

[otto]

I'm still curious about why kokomani's car was parked in the driveway that night and why do you suppose he mentions downstairs. (I don't think it was the cat) There are some parts of his diary that are hard to ignore - chilling in my opinion..

I knocked on the door, but no one answered. I went downstairs to the guys’ place, but no one was there either. So then, I waited in the yard.​

Mk arrives, meets rudy at the door

(she) then took the keys out of her purse, opened the door, and we entered. There wasn't anyone in the house because it was dark everywhere, in the kitchen, in the living room, then she yelled "Anybody here,"​

Mk realizes money is stolen and he helps her look for it

Also, I checked the other rooms but everything was in order. So I tried to speak to her and calm her down, saying that a girl shouldn't get upset or she'll get wrinkles, and she laughed. I told her to laugh because everything would eventually work out.​

His message to amanda

Speak the truth. What are you hiding? If it wasn't Raffaele, who was there on that night? One of your many druggie-lovers you were bringing home? Was he someone from the "Merlin," "Domus," was it all of you downstairs?​

Guede is also firm in his statement that the window was not broken when he left the cottage on the night of the murder.

 

[otto]

Thanks, so if it's clear which side of the shutter the rock hit, why is there any dispute about it having been thrown from outside? Just prosecution theory?

Staging is based on several factors, in particular the fact that broken glass was on top of items that were pulled off the shelves and thrown on the floor. That is, the room was ransacked, and then the window was broken.

 

[otto]

I had written a long post to explain why believe it reached the point it did and it disappeared! Grrrr! Im typing on my ipad which is a big pain, so rather than trying to re-type it all, i'll give you some suggestions. Read about Mignini and the Monster of Florence case and then read about dietrologia .

The history behind the Monster of Florence is that Douglas Preston had writer's block and decided to go to Italy. Once there, he claims he discovered that there was an unusual unsolved serial murder case. He decided to write about it. He bumped into Spezi, a journalist (or writer) that was also researching the case. Together, they started poking around, trying to get information from police. Eventually, they stepped too far into the investigation and got the attention of the prosecutor's office. Preston was very upset that he was questioned by the prosecutor. In fact, he was told that he was interfering with the investigation. This really upset Preston. I suppose he thought that everyone would want to help him with his book. Preston felt very threatened and turned against the prosecutor. Since then, he has been badmouthing the prosecutor in Perugia.

Douglas Preston is not an objective source regarding the prosecutor's office in Perugia. Years later he still seems angry about being told to stay out of the investigation.

 

[sherlockh]

BBM

I'm very curious about this, can you give me details about what evidence there was of cleaning taking place?

- All Luminol spots are evidence of cleaning since they were invisible. The footprints were not clear, they were blurry, and some even just half.
- The bathmat footprint was only half and no footprints leading to it. Somebody cleaned those footprints.
- Blood spots all over the bathmat, foot washing in bidet, and not a single spot on the floor seems unlikely. The other half of the bathmat print was cleaned as well. It seems the whole bathroom floor was mopped.
- The sink and bidet were cleaned.
- The trace on the side of the door seemed to have been part of a larger trace. As if somebody cleaned front/back of a closed door and forgot to check the side.
- The small shoeprint on the pillow is a standalone. Where are the other shoe prints?
JMO.

 

[SMK]

Will there be a report issued with the verdict or, like here in the US, just the verdict? I'd love to know the reasoning behind a verdict, whichever way they decide.

Yes, I believe the court has 90 days to issue its motivation report.

 

[SMK]

- All Luminol spots are evidence of cleaning since they were invisible. The footprints were not clear, they were blurry, and some even just half.
- The bathmat footprint was only half and no footprints leading to it. Somebody cleaned those footprints.
- Blood spots all over the bathmat, foot washing in bidet, and not a single spot on the floor seems unlikely. The other half of the bathmat print was cleaned as well. It seems the whole bathroom floor was mopped.
- The sink and bidet were cleaned.
- The trace on the side of the door seemed to have been part of a larger trace. As if somebody cleaned front/back of a closed door and forgot to check the side.
- The small shoeprint on the pillow is a standalone. Where are the other shoe prints?
JMO.

Thanks for this---Most appreciated - where did you get this info, as I was searching RE the clean-up evidence, and couldn't find all of this..