Greece American tourist a retired cop, 59, not returned from a solo hike, Amorgos Island, 11 June 24

[LadyL]

I am behind on this thread so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned:

I am sure the heat has been a major factor in these deaths. I wonder how many of these folks had covid? I am curious because longer term adverse health effects are not yet fully known or even diagnosable but the medical community has indicated a likelihood of long term issues.

So maybe people who had otherwise been healthy, spent a lifetime of exploring/walking/hiking/etc. may have new factors in play, health-wise, along with the heat? It might explain why they might not have anticipated having issues doing things they had previously been able to do with no problem.

Just random musing on my part. MOO.

Post-COVID Conditions

Some people experience new or ongoing symptoms lasting weeks or months.

www.cdc.gov

"Some people, especially those who had severe COVID-19, may experience multi-organ effects or autoimmune conditions lasting weeks, months, or even years after COVID-19 illness. Multi-organ effects can involve many body systems, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, skin, and brain."

good point
I hadn't even thought of that

 

[LadyL]

I am Greek. This video is from 2 days ago and his friend who is Greek is expressing his disappointment that the people that are still searching are too few as the island only has 2-3 firefighters and 4 policemen for the whole island. The only helicopter that searched for him came on the second day and searched for only 2 hours. He is expressing his frustration about the cellular data pings not being disclosed because of the Privacy Laws. The privacy laws in Europe are very strict and each European country-member must abide by those laws. However, in cases of such life-threatening emergencies, there should be a way to be overridden.

The police do have a general area of the cell pings but this area is vast and doesn't help much. I am not sure that there is a way to get more precise pings as the islands in general don't have the best cell phone coverage...

Since this video was published there was an announcement by the Police spokesperson yesterday that the team searching for him consists of ten policemen and rescuers and a search dog with its handler. See upthread #376

[bbm]

hopefully they learned from the Michael Mosley case to protect the dog's feet

 

[Artis]

I don't find this BS, so our views likely differ.
I also feel sorry for Oliver.
But that doesn't mean that the US has standing in other countries.

I meant their claim they are so concerned about the safety of US citizens abroad. You travel, you're on your own. They're good for paperwork but that's it. I don't think everyone fully understands that, as evidenced by Oliver thinking otherwise and being so disappointed. That should be more clear, imo. The State Dept is about politics, not helping travelers.

 

[Cedars]

I meant their claim they are so concerned about the safety of US citizens abroad. You travel, you're on your own. They're good for paperwork but that's it. I don't think everyone fully understands that, as evidenced by Oliver thinking otherwise and being so disappointed. That should be more clear, imo. The State Dept is about politics, not helping travelers.

I agree that people don't understand the limitations of government, but IMO, comments like that one from the State department are just
being 'diplomatic' - I personally appreciate the skill involved, it's a kind of verbal judo.

JMO

 

[Artis]

I agree that people don't understand the limitations of government, but IMO, comments like that one from the State department are just
being 'diplomatic' - I personally appreciate the skill involved, it's a kind of verbal judo.

JMO

"Verbal judo"

lol

 

[RickshawFan]

This is a recent re-hash of recent articles. * edited to remove the link, not sure it's safe"

It has a proofreading problem: He has been missing for 12 days, not 12 years

It does relate that 2 new US volunteers arrived in Amorgos on June 21 to continue the search. Something also about funding a site for donations for the search, but nothing yet has actually been posted.

Again, a sort of disparaging comment about the US consulate in Greece, naming the ambassador.

Quote from LA County ( USA) Sheriff: "L.A. County Sheriff Robert Luna said, “We are actively collaborating with multiple agencies abroad to provide assistance in the search for Deputy Calibet and will use every resource we have available to bring him back to those who love him.”

Ambassadors are in charge of embassies; consuls are in charge of consulates. AFAIK there are no consulates in Greece. Consular services are at the embassy in Athens; generally, they take care of stuff like visas and passports.

It would be very unlikely for an embassy to organize SAR. That’s a local government service. Greece is a sovereign country.

In general, SAR in the US wouldn’t be searching for someone for 12 days, either. These are folks with families, jobs, and lives. IIRC searches are wrapped up most of the time in 72 hours because that’s the window for survival potential; sooner than 72 if the odds of survival are low. The exception would be a search for a child.

The odds would be very low for someone to survive in high temperatures in Greece for more than a few hours. Recall, we had a runner go missing in CA, and he was found sitting against a tree (?). The doctor on Syme was leaning against a rock. And no amount of experience saved a family near Yosemite. Death comes very fast in these conditions.

We have had several cases lately where American families expect their missing loved ones to be rescued and/or investigations undertaken as they MIGHT in the US. I say MIGHT, because many backcountry users in the US also assume they’ll be rescued, not realizing, if any, rescue may be hours or a day away. Recent cases have transpired in Guatemala, Japan, Alaska.

 

[RickshawFan]

A state department spokesperson released a statement Saturday saying:

We are aware of reports of a U.S. citizen missing in Greece. When a U.S. citizen is missing, we work closely with local authorities as they carry out their search efforts, and we share information with families however we can. The Greek missing persons alert program has issued a notice concerning this case. The Department of State has no higher priority than the welfare and safety of U.S. citizens abroad. We stand ready to provide appropriate assistance to U.S. citizens in need and to their families.

Somebody please raise the BS flag. What a crock. I feel so sorry for Oliver.

It is not BS; it’s reality and understandable. And Oliver chose to take that hike, in those conditions. The embassy does not interfere with routine protocols of sovereign countries. Greek is a sovereign country. It coordinates. It doesn’t do.

Besides, how would an embassy even get SAR personnel? SAR are volunteers. Plus, if they had to muster in the US, they’d be arriving at the “missing” location days after certain fatality. What would be the point? It would be too risky for US citizens to be searching in Greek conditions as well: the heat is super high risk. Authorities do not risk the lives of SAR personnel; they shouldn’t have their lives on the line for someone’s risky choices. Even in the US, SAR generally comes under local authority, not the feds; the State Department is a federal department.

 

[RickshawFan]

I meant their claim they are so concerned about the safety of US citizens abroad. You travel, you're on your own. They're good for paperwork but that's it. I don't think everyone fully understands that, as evidenced by Oliver thinking otherwise and being so disappointed. That should be more clear, imo. The State Dept is about politics, not helping travelers.

Actually, the role of the embassy basically is to protect and represent the interests of the US. Politics is only one factor. Business is another. Propaganda is one. Immigration is one. They engage, interface, negotiate, and collaborate. They gather information.

 

[Herat]

Ambassadors are in charge of embassies; consuls are in charge of consulates. AFAIK there are no consulates in Greece. Consular services are at the embassy in Athens; generally, they take care of stuff like visas and passports.

It would be very unlikely for an embassy to organize SAR. That’s a local government service. Greece is a sovereign country.

In general, SAR in the US wouldn’t be searching for someone for 12 days, either. These are folks with families, jobs, and lives. IIRC searches are wrapped up most of the time in 72 hours because that’s the window for survival potential; sooner than 72 if the odds of survival are low. The exception would be a search for a child.

The odds would be very low for someone to survive in high temperatures in Greece for more than a few hours. Recall, we had a runner go missing in CA, and he was found sitting against a tree (?). The doctor on Syme was leaning against a rock. And no amount of experience saved a family near Yosemite. Death comes very fast in these conditions.

We have had several cases lately where American families expect their missing loved ones to be rescued and/or investigations undertaken as they MIGHT in the US. I say MIGHT, because many backcountry users in the US also assume they’ll be rescued, not realizing, if any, rescue may be hours or a day away. Recent cases have transpired in Guatemala, Japan, Alaska.

Well put, Richshawfan

Americans are pretty naive about their own responsibilities for security, for their own health, and just easily seem to assume their government will pick up the pieces.

Outside of an incident of kidnapping. or military action, their basic job is to assist in passport and visa issues. They do visit Americans who have been jailed to provide names of lawyers.

 

[Artis]

Actually, the role of the embassy basically is to protect and represent the interests of the US. Politics is only one factor. Business is another. Propaganda is one. Immigration is one.

I'm aware of what they do. Business, propaganda, immigration as well as more unsavory activities, all fall under the umbrella of politics. The average person isn't aware that.

 

[Herat]

A 67 year-old German tourist who went missing on a hike in Crete has been found dead today, Greek news reports.

His wife says he set out on a hike today in the morning taking any water and called her telling her he had fallen. 112 was called and rescuers search all day, finding him collapsed in a difficult area to retrieve.

German hiker missing since Sunday found dead on Crete | eKathimerini.com

A 67-year-old German national who went missing on a hike on Sunday in Crete has been found dead.

www.ekathimerini.com

This Greek news article notes a Dutch tourist was also found deals today, in an unrelated incident.

https://greekreporter.com/2024/06/24/another-tourist-dead-hike-crete-greece/

Dutch tourist found dead in car in Crete - DutchNews.nl

A 55-year-old Dutch tourist who had been missing since Monday has been found dead in his car on the Greek island of Crete. The man’s car was spotted on a cliff edge at the village of Koutsounari near Ierapetra in eastern Crete. Firefighters were called in to retrieve the car, which was in danger...

www.dutchnews.nl

 

[StillDiggin]

I was about to post this, I can’t believe peo0le are still out walking.

 

[Herat]

You'd think with the number of solo middle-aged and older tourists hiking in the heat on these small Greek islands they would all be bumping into each other all the time.

 

[RickshawFan]

Well put, Richshawfan

Americans are pretty naive about their own responsibilities for security, for their own health, and just easily seem to assume their government will pick up the pieces.

Outside of an incident of kidnapping. or military action, their basic job is to assist in passport and visa issues. They do visit Americans who have been jailed to provide names of lawyers.

Thanks, @Herat . Yep, that’s the basic job when it comes to individuals.
IMO these whole paragraphs. I’m not sure where the idea comes from that someone will surely rescue you if you get in over your head. You will be snatched from the brink of death! It’s not the “knight in shining armor” syndrome. Parenting has really changed from when I was young, to something more helicopterish for some kids, and a greater sense of entitlement for others. A vastly different idea about what others should do for you and about there being real consequences if things turn out badly. For many, travel has turned into a BFF concept: B is the fun and interesting part and F is a kind of US gov’t rescue machine.
There are also many different options for travel, into remoter areas, with encouragement from social media. The recent case at Lake Atitlán in Guatemala has exactly those features. And yes, the US gov’t was expected to do a rescue, when it was clearly a fatality as a result of risky choices. And the conspiracy-enthused TikTok machine got behind the whole notion of Uncle Sam being an interventionary helicopter mom with extended reach into the wilds of a developing country.
This ^^^^ is a comment about my general perception of risky behavior in unfamiliar places, and doesn’t speak to an individual situation unless I’ve specified.

In these heat situations in Greece, it does seem as though more older folks are victims than younger. Media has pointed out that older folks are more susceptible to temperature changes. However, in Greece in particular, if I’m young, I’m not there to go hiking. I’m there to hang out at tavernas and the beach. Except for over-drinking, IMO these would be a lot safer: there are more opportunities for shade (e.g. umbrellas), and it’s generally easy to leave a situation. There are a lot more people around. So, I think the choice to hike is also age-related. And it’s deathly.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm aware of what they do. Business, propaganda, immigration as well as more unsavory activities, all fall under the umbrella of politics. The average person isn't aware that.

Since this comment replies to mine, and seems to argue with me…I grew up in the embassy environment: I am personally familiar. I might be average, but I know.

 

[RickshawFan]

A 67 year-old German tourist who went missing on a hike in Crete has been found dead today, Greek news reports.

His wife says he set out on a hike today in the morning taking any water and called her telling her he had fallen. 112 was called and rescuers search all day, finding him collapsed in a difficult area to retrieve.

German hiker missing since Sunday found dead on Crete | eKathimerini.com

A 67-year-old German national who went missing on a hike on Sunday in Crete has been found dead.

www.ekathimerini.com

This Greek news article notes a Dutch tourist was also found deals today, in an unrelated incident.

https://greekreporter.com/2024/06/24/another-tourist-dead-hike-crete-greece/

Dutch tourist found dead in car in Crete - DutchNews.nl

A 55-year-old Dutch tourist who had been missing since Monday has been found dead in his car on the Greek island of Crete. The man’s car was spotted on a cliff edge at the village of Koutsounari near Ierapetra in eastern Crete. Firefighters were called in to retrieve the car, which was in danger...

www.dutchnews.nl

Oh, boy…
I’m checking where exactly in Crete….
I'm also noting that the vulnerable tend to be northern European stock (the Amorgos victim has a French passport, as well as US). It makes sense that they could be especially vulnerable to heat. They FRY in the sun.

 

[RickshawFan]

The moral of these stories: if you go to Greece in midsummer, stick to the beach and tavernas. Hang out liberally.

 

[Herat]

Since this comment replies to mine, and seems to argue with me…I grew up in the embassy environment: I am personally familiar. I might be average, but I know.

This is great insight and I really value the experience and knowledge you share with us. I have personal experience of the US consulate's level of assistance when ambushed and robbed while on a group trip in a very remote area of a sparsely=populated foreign country.

After checking to make sure none of us needed to be hospitalized, he let the local police force take over the incident investigation and the consulate's main job was to get us new US passports, which was not an easy task where we ended up.

 

[Herat]

The moral of these stories: if you go to Greece in midsummer, stick to the beach and tavernas. Hang out liberally.

I'd say if you go to Greece in the summer, hang out and return again in the much cooler months to hike. With a friend and with a tracker and alarm system of some sort not just your smartphone.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A woman fanning someone on a bench in front of the Parthenon at the ancient Acropolis in Athens this month. Because of the extreme heat, Greek authorities took the unusual steps earlier this month to temporarily restrict visiting hours to the Acropolis and several other ancient sites.

Greek authorities said on Monday that the body of a missing German man was recovered near a gorge on the island of Crete, the latest in a series of fatal incidents involving tourists undertaking demanding hikes in the scorching heat.

At least 10 tourists have gone missing or been found dead this year in similar circumstances, according to Greek authorities. The country has experienced back-to-back heat waves earlier than usual this year, with temperatures exceeding 100 degrees Fahrenheit (38 degrees Celsius) in many areas for several days in a row.

The 67-year-old man’s body was found in “rugged and inaccessible terrain” near the Tripiti Gorge in southwestern Crete, the fire service said in a statement. It was first spotted by a drone on Sunday evening. Early Monday, the fire service sent a helicopter, though it took responders several hours to reach the body.

In Greece, Another Tourist Found Dead Amid Scorching Heat Wave

At least 10 foreign tourists have gone missing or been found dead this year in Greece after going for a hike, often in scorching temperatures.

www.nytimes.com