Another New Lawyer for Casey - Dorothy Sims

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^ can I just say that a theory of innocence which one has to bend ones mind into the shape of a pretzel to understand is not reasonable doubt. Just because it's possible that someone else could have had access to the car (that Casey was driving at the time might I add, and had complained in a recorded text that it had a smell of death to it also) doesn't mean that is probable, or even possible.

:D

That is why I stand by my original theory that the Chupacabra did it as it's just as reasonable as a mystery perp, aliens, or Elvis imho. The key word in reasonable doubt....is the word reasonable.

This new lawyer can try twisting Dr. G's testimony any way she likes but at the end of the day it is going to boil down to what theory the jurors found reasonable.

A mystery perp with no evidence of existence having access to the inner recesses of the A home and ICA's car as well as the ability to obtain possession of Caylee with no motive to do so.

I seriously hope Ms. Sims has brushed up on her Jedi mind trick training. Cause obviously this is the droid were looking for.
 
I know the Defense doesn't have to prove how this baby died, but if I was on the jury, and all the Defense did was try to chop holes in the State's evidence, and offer some mental health stuff during mitigation - I sure wouldn't be convinced that ICA was "innocent" or "not guilty".

During the first phase of the trial, I'd be watching and listening and :waitasec: thinking, just how did this baby die? If it's not the way the State is trying to prove, then why aren't you providing some evidence, witnesses or even ICA herself to explain this death. Yes, I also know the defendant isn't required to testify in their own defense, but just listening to a bunch of experts say maybe it didn't happen that way, or maybe that evidence doesn't really show that just wouldn't be good enough for me. If they couldn't give me answers, I'd come up with my own conclusions.

Guess that explains why I don't get called for jury duty. Well, I did once, but I had shingles. It's contagious, LOL.

BBM I'd also be thinking if KC didn't do it, then why doesn't she at least tell what REALLY happened the last time she saw Caylee?

It is just not enough to poke holes in the evidence given that she maintains the last time she saw her daughter was at the steps (or the park, or the park) with ZFG. She has to splain herself. IMO
 
This new lawyer, however she wants to try with any theory still has to explain 31 days!!
ICA was still able to function 'normally' as she had been doing prior to Caylee's demise. She HAD been lying to all her friends and family prior to her murder. And then she continued on even more daringly with her stories and lies, all while functioning like a young adult would...partying, shopping, texting, dancing. 31 days is what's gonna get her, just as we all thought in the very beginning. There's no way out of that one.
 
This new lawyer, however she wants to try with any theory still has to explain 31 days!!
ICA was still able to function 'normally' as she had been doing prior to Caylee's demise. She HAD been lying to all her friends and family prior to her murder. And then she continued on even more daringly with her stories and lies, all while functioning like a young adult would...partying, shopping, texting, dancing. 31 days is what's gonna get her, just as we all thought in the very beginning. There's no way out of that one.
Plus... the only "people" she told Caylee was missing prior to Cindy's 911 calls were non-existant ones!
 
Could Ms Sims be brought in to critique from a prosecutor's view a rehearsal of both H Lee and Baden (?) and help them bolster up their testimonies? They both seem to be a little addled..
 
I thought we determined that the new co-counsel R Gabriel specialized in jury selection. Is he pro bono also? Has he got a new book out?

Didn't HHBP disallow this?


ETA Maybe this post should be deleted because I don't know for sure who the new co-counsel is yet.
I've never deleted one though and don't know how.
 
Oh oh - I've been napping. Has R. Gabriel been declared co-counsel? I missed that. I knew about the jail visit, but not any agreement to represent.
 
Well, maybe I jumped the gun.
A new NOA was filed today but MM was unable to get a copy of it because of the holiday. In my mind I figured it was R Gabriel but I don't think it has been backed up as fact.
My mistake.
 
Well, maybe I jumped the gun.
A new NOA was filed today but MM was unable to get a copy of it because of the holiday. In my mind I figured it was R Gabriel but I don't think it has been backed up as fact.
My mistake.

I think Gabriel is still a distinct possibility.

Sims was filed on the 8th and says "Limited"
09/08/2010 Notice of Limited Appearance as Co-Counsel

This looks like a completely different filing on the 9th - with no "Limited" wording - and it does NOT say "Amended" Notice (as for Sims)
09/09/2010 Notice of Appearance as Co-Counsel
 
I think Gabriel is still a distinct possibility.

Sims was filed on the 8th and says "Limited"
09/08/2010 Notice of Limited Appearance as Co-Counsel

This looks like a completely different filing on the 9th - with no "Limited" wording - and it does NOT say "Amended" Notice (as for Sims)
09/09/2010 Notice of Appearance as Co-Counsel



This video report explains that Sims is the new co-counsel although she filed as limited counsel yesterday:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exviIw0vRJM&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
 
We do all want the killer held accountable for the repulsive crime that happened to Caylee, that goes without saying. But there's no proof released (so far) that Casey is the one who did that to her. Casey is obviously not the only person who could have taped Caylee's face or put her body in the trunk of the Pontiac, or at that site. And no forensic evidence (released so far) connects Casey to the action of taping Caylee or placing her remains at the site, no hair, dna on the tape etc that match Casey. She didn't have exclusive access to anything found with Caylee. Meanwhile there was hair from someone else on the Disney bag (that had the gatorade bottle with the syringe that had steroids and chloroform in it) and there is DNA from someone else on the tape.
We have to keep in mind there was absolutely no history of abuse or neglect. Caylee was a healthy, happy, well adjusted toddler all the way up to the June 15 video. All witnesses said that Caylee was very bonded to Casey and vice versa.
Regarding mental illness or some kind of medical delirium or disorientation, IMO there's plenty of indications that Casey could be delusional or delirious or confused in some way, or even traumatized for all I know. For example, her illogical statements to LE, inability to provide basic information for the weeks in question, confusion of past and present events, still thought she worked at Universal and frequented Sawgrass etc, her belief that she had a movie star as her coworker, and about one of her co-workers being a "different" Jeff Hopkins. The fact that she told one story about Caylee's going missing at Sawgrass, then very shortly after told a different story (Jay Blanchard Park) and apparently didn't see any problem with telling two different stories. The way the video of Caylee talking about her book seemed to have morphed in Casey's mind into a phone call she'd received from Caylee in which she talked about her book. A sane person would know all these things would very quickly be disproved, and would only make her look bad for saying them. Her theme that someone had given her a sort of verbal script to tell police, her theme that others had stolen her life, etc. Her failure to report the disappearance, her vagueness and illogical thinking processes and actions during the missing weeks and after, her completely inappropriate affect in mid-July, no urgency, no concern, preoccupied with trivial things, very flat voice and affect, very thin, vacant expression, etc. (Old friends said this was not like the Casey they knew at all, big change.) And on and on.

The detectives noticed how strange her statements were and asked her if she'd ever been committed at the mental hospital before. One of the defense attorneys also wanted to pursue the mental health angle (he left the team when this was not done.) Also, on the purely medical side, there's the history of (apparently untreated) seizures. I'm also curious about the way her eyes jiggle and wonder what the cause is. Personally, I do think it likely that either medical issues or mental health issues could be involved. Might not have anything to do with her being a killer. MOO

First I have to tell you, I thought you were joking... The more I read I realized how serious you are.

Re "But there's no proof released (so far) that Casey is the one who did that to her". I disagree, granted, the proof is circumstantial, but people are convicted on much less everyday. GA said he saw them leave on 6/16 - in ICA's car. There is nothing that leads to or even suggests that ICA left Caylee with anyone (who exists outside of Fantasyland). ICA was the last person to see her daughter alive unless there is someone she was involved with - who she never called, never texted, never emailed and never pinged. (aside from the nonexistent-nanny).

Her car, (that AL saw her leave in the parking lot) was towed - reeking from decomp, (er zombie squirrels with pizza) - ties her to Caylee's tiny remains - the remains, with Caylee's WTP blanket, the rare duct tape, toy horse and a shirt that Caylee was photographed wearing, tie Caylee therefore ICA, to the house (That just happens to be down the street) and next to a place that ICA and friends hung at and used for dead pet disposal, when they were kids.

If not ICA then who? Who had access to Caylee, the tape, the heart shaped stickers, found with her packet of crafts odds 'n ends, the linen bag that CA said she gave to ICA for her laundry and the trunk of the Pontiac in the week of June 16th?

Precious Caylee's remains were scattered over almost an acre of property - tiny little bones the size of pebbles - after sitting out in the elements for 6 months. I'm not in the least worried about what we haven't seen at this point - what we have seen is telling enough.

Re: LE - Yes, LEOs asked if she had been hospitalized for mental issues - she replied "no" She bragged to CPS that she had a psych eval and was found to be completely sane - in the same conversation (at home, to CPS) she claimed to still be working at Universal. That does not make ICA crazy - it makes her a bad liar.

Anyone in their right mind would find ICA and her crazy stories "off" that much is true, but it does not make her criminally insane. When push came to shove, ICA admitted to the LEOs with her at Universal, that she does not work there - she wanted them to hand out flyers or something, and to look at video to see if Caylee had been there! (RIGHT!)

Re: "her theme that others had stolen her life" - really? do you have a link for this I must have missed it. The only whining I have heard about her life is complaints that she is locked up (where, IMO she belongs) when she missed a fine chili dinner on Caylee's BDay and assumed others had been there to "party". She sounded down right pizzed off when she related this to GA - but never once did she mention Caylee, or ask how her family got thru the day. Just more poor me, me, me...

Re: seizures - One seizure has been reported, while she was sleeping off a hard nights partying - she was taken by ambulance, to the ER - where a work up was done and she was deemed healthy enough to be released. Cindy claimed the results of testing found her to healthy and free from drugs. I have not seen anything that would suggest she had other seizures. Of course CA also claimed that ICA was a virgin, with a baby sized tumor, just weeks before Caylee's birth...

Re "her belief that she had a movie star as her coworker"/a coworker named JHopkins, who had a son (Zack) and mother (who got married and left for a world cruise) - yet she has no real coworkers or supervisors, and her "work" consisted of web surfing, e-mailing and texting - the use of these names came from ICA and her mother who said, ICA was here or there, with these people (who don't exist) while in fact she was shacked up locally, stealing from family and friends - even admitted to stealing, all in the name of looking for Caylee, (in bars/clubs and ??) - who had been triple bagged and dumped around the block from her parents home.

Re: "All witnesses said that Caylee was very bonded to Casey and vice versa. ..there was absolutely no history of abuse or neglect. Caylee was a healthy, happy, well adjusted toddler all the way up to the June 15 video."

Look again at the video of Caylee on June 15, compare it too some of the older videos - Caylee was neither happy nor was she healthy looking. She had dark circles under her eyes, she sat on her GGrandpa's lap clinging to him - something that surprised even CA, who said Caylee hadn't seen him in awhile and she thought Caylee might be shy or afraid. That video showed a very different Caylee than the child we have seen in so many pictures and videos. CA missed her chance to save Caylee, big time.

All the witnesses of late (outside the compound) barely knew Caylee, Tony had seen her 2 or 3 times and he had to tell ICA that Caylee really didn't belong in his apt. On the nights ICA was shacked up with RM - Caylee slept in the same bed with him and her mother! Some of the people ICA associated with claim she was drugging Caylee, so she didn't have to be bother by Caylee waking up, while she partied! I would call these episodes abusive and neglectful.

Re: "some kind of medical delirium or disorientation" - ICA sure wasn't looking out of it in BlockBuster, renting videos with her flavor of the week. Nor did she appear dazed or confused in the party pics from Fusion. All these photos are from the week Caylee "disappeared" off the face of the earth! Yeah, ICA was truly suffering.

None of these young, childless folks seemed terribly concerned that Caylee, a tiny not yet 3 yr old toddler was going to theme parks, beaches or what not every day, with a babysitter - instead of spending time with her mother, had it been true, I can guarantee you Caylee would not have been the happy camper ICA was, not to have to drag Caylee around - spoiling her "Beautiful Life".
 
If her expertise is poking holes in autopsy results, I'm curious as to why she would spend time visiting with Casey? Is it just to introduce herself to Casey and let her know she's now part of the team? Casey can't really shed any light on the medical aspects of the case, unless she were to tell this attorney exactly how she killed Caylee.

BBM: I agree completely with your entire post but in particular I wanted to expand on what I bolded. I have always felt that the reason KC lost it at the hearing when the SA was describing the duct tape being put over Caylee is because they have it WRONG. KC is upset that they are going to nail her for this crime with the WRONG theory of what happened to Caylee. I didn't think ethically KC could just say to her counsel "This is what happened to Caylee, they have it all wrong!".....but for instance if this atty met with KC and gave her hypothetical scenarios and played the "hot and cold" game.....well then her defense would know where to attack the SA's theory in cross....

Hope this makes sense.....KC only shows emotion when she's frustrated (or being told by LA that "he loves her") so her exhibition of emotion that day at the hearing....when she told AL to make them "stop it"....I saw frustration, not grief or remorse, and that is when I got my first sense of "They've got me, but they don't have what I did right...." sorta like how OJ did it, but the SA didn't put the events out there like they probably really happened - thus leaving openings for doubt.
 
First I have to tell you, I thought you were joking... The more I read I realized how serious you are.

Re "But there's no proof released (so far) that Casey is the one who did that to her". I disagree, granted, the proof is circumstantial, but people are convicted on much less everyday. GA said he saw them leave on 6/16 - in ICA's car. There is nothing that leads to or even suggests that ICA left Caylee with anyone (who exists outside of Fantasyland). ICA was the last person to see her daughter alive unless there is someone she was involved with - who she never called, never texted, never emailed and never pinged. (aside from the nonexistent-nanny).

Her car, (that AL saw her leave in the parking lot) was towed - reeking from decomp, (er zombie squirrels with pizza) - ties her to Caylee's tiny remains - the remains, with Caylee's WTP blanket, the rare duct tape, toy horse and a shirt that Caylee was photographed wearing, tie Caylee therefore ICA, to the house (That just happens to be down the street) and next to a place that ICA and friends hung at and used for dead pet disposal, when they were kids.

If not ICA then who? Who had access to Caylee, the tape, the heart shaped stickers, found with her packet of crafts odds 'n ends, the linen bag that CA said she gave to ICA for her laundry and the trunk of the Pontiac in the week of June 16th?

Precious Caylee's remains were scattered over almost an acre of property - tiny little bones the size of pebbles - after sitting out in the elements for 6 months. I'm not in the least worried about what we haven't seen at this point - what we have seen is telling enough.

Re: LE - Yes, LEOs asked if she had been hospitalized for mental issues - she replied "no" She bragged to CPS that she had a psych eval and was found to be completely sane - in the same conversation (at home, to CPS) she claimed to still be working at Universal. That does not make ICA crazy - it makes her a bad liar.

Anyone in their right mind would find ICA and her crazy stories "off" that much is true, but it does not make her criminally insane. When push came to shove, ICA admitted to the LEOs with her at Universal, that she does not work there - she wanted them to hand out flyers or something, and to look at video to see if Caylee had been there! (RIGHT!)

Re: "her theme that others had stolen her life" - really? do you have a link for this I must have missed it. The only whining I have heard about her life is complaints that she is locked up (where, IMO she belongs) when she missed a fine chili dinner on Caylee's BDay and assumed others had been there to "party". She sounded down right pizzed off when she related this to GA - but never once did she mention Caylee, or ask how her family got thru the day. Just more poor me, me, me...

Re: seizures - One seizure has been reported, while she was sleeping off a hard nights partying - she was taken by ambulance, to the ER - where a work up was done and she was deemed healthy enough to be released. Cindy claimed the results of testing found her to healthy and free from drugs. I have not seen anything that would suggest she had other seizures. Of course CA also claimed that ICA was a virgin, with a baby sized tumor, just weeks before Caylee's birth...

Re "her belief that she had a movie star as her coworker"/a coworker named JHopkins, who had a son (Zack) and mother (who got married and left for a world cruise) - yet she has no real coworkers or supervisors, and her "work" consisted of web surfing, e-mailing and texting - the use of these names came from ICA and her mother who said, ICA was here or there, with these people (who don't exist) while in fact she was shacked up locally, stealing from family and friends - even admitted to stealing, all in the name of looking for Caylee, (in bars/clubs and ??) - who had been triple bagged and dumped around the block from her parents home.

Re: "All witnesses said that Caylee was very bonded to Casey and vice versa. ..there was absolutely no history of abuse or neglect. Caylee was a healthy, happy, well adjusted toddler all the way up to the June 15 video."

Look again at the video of Caylee on June 15, compare it too some of the older videos - Caylee was neither happy nor was she healthy looking. She had dark circles under her eyes, she sat on her GGrandpa's lap clinging to him - something that surprised even CA, who said Caylee hadn't seen him in awhile and she thought Caylee might be shy or afraid. That video showed a very different Caylee than the child we have seen in so many pictures and videos. CA missed her chance to save Caylee, big time.

All the witnesses of late (outside the compound) barely knew Caylee, Tony had seen her 2 or 3 times and he had to tell ICA that Caylee really didn't belong in his apt. On the nights ICA was shacked up with RM - Caylee slept in the same bed with him and her mother! Some of the people ICA associated with claim she was drugging Caylee, so she didn't have to be bother by Caylee waking up, while she partied! I would call these episodes abusive and neglectful.

Re: "some kind of medical delirium or disorientation" - ICA sure wasn't looking out of it in BlockBuster, renting videos with her flavor of the week. Nor did she appear dazed or confused in the party pics from Fusion. All these photos are from the week Caylee "disappeared" off the face of the earth! Yeah, ICA was truly suffering.

None of these young, childless folks seemed terribly concerned that Caylee, a tiny not yet 3 yr old toddler was going to theme parks, beaches or what not every day, with a babysitter - instead of spending time with her mother, had it been true, I can guarantee you Caylee would not have been the happy camper ICA was, not to have to drag Caylee around spoiling her "Beautiful Life".

Well said...
 
This should be posted in the "Questions for Verified Lawyers" thread, but its relevant here:

If this Sims atty has not been retained as KC's counsel, would their visit be priviledged? Would the info exchanged be privileged if she's never retained?
 
There is scientific rationale why a blood soaked leather glove would shrink considerably and no longer fit the person who they belonged too or why it would be 1000 times more difficult to insert a latex glove covered hand into the crunchy shrunken glove but the jury ignored all logic and reason in favour of the catchy phrase 'If the glove doesn't fit, you can't convict'. So the jury didn't. That crime scene was far more horrific IMO.

Jesse G says he doesn't even know who this KC is. So with a clever lawyer you start with the states most credible witnesses and use them in your favour.

:angel:Hey I'm with you and want her to fry but I'm just speculating what this lawyer may be here for and I don't think it's helping LKB with forensics. I expect the ICA defense to make me want to vomit. Nobody can really understand how any young mother could do this. A Mental Health defense would be an explanation. I'm not saying it's right but hey even Cindy says KC is cut from the same cloth is her and we all know Cindy's crazy.
She just has to claim of hearing voices or having visual hallucinations. The voice told her not to tell the Psychiatrists, making their initial assessments nul and void per the defense. KC was so sick, she didn't even have the awareness to ask for help and Cindy the devoted RN who could have noticed the psychological distress was prevented from visiting.

Maybe I'm completely off base. I'm just preparing for the worst.

Fortunately for us ICA is not a former footballer or actor, who we watched racing through airports on TV for years. OJ's trial was a crime in itself, (I agree about the crime scene) the jurors could still recall the race riots and those threatening to riot again, if OJ was found guilty.

Very interesting how Ms Karma showed up in Vegas to bite him on the backside and not a peep from his former "supporters"!!

So far all the cleaver lawyers have been chased away by JB refusing to take any direction, from those who actually know what they are doing! As talented as these new co councils may be - if JB won't allow them the space to do what they do best - they most likely won't want to go down with the sinking ship.

I know we are both on the same side, I just kinda hope for the best, but I'll be right there beside you, if the worst happens -
 
This should be posted in the "Questions for Verified Lawyers" thread, but its relevant here:

If this Sims atty has not been retained as KC's counsel, would their visit be priviledged? Would the info exchanged be privileged if she's never retained?

I believe JB was present, so the conversation would be protected by attorney/client privilege because he was there.
 
We do all want the killer held accountable for the repulsive crime that happened to Caylee, that goes without saying. But there's no proof released (so far) that Casey is the one who did that to her. Casey is obviously not the only person who could have taped Caylee's face or put her body in the trunk of the Pontiac, or at that site. And no forensic evidence (released so far) connects Casey to the action of taping Caylee or placing her remains at the site, no hair, dna on the tape etc that match Casey. She didn't have exclusive access to anything found with Caylee. Meanwhile there was hair from someone else on the Disney bag (that had the gatorade bottle with the syringe that had steroids and chloroform in it) and there is DNA from someone else on the tape.
We have to keep in mind there was absolutely no history of abuse or neglect. Caylee was a healthy, happy, well adjusted toddler all the way up to the June 15 video. All witnesses said that Caylee was very bonded to Casey and vice versa.
Regarding mental illness or some kind of medical delirium or disorientation, IMO there's plenty of indications that Casey could be delusional or delirious or confused in some way, or even traumatized for all I know. For example, her illogical statements to LE, inability to provide basic information for the weeks in question, confusion of past and present events, still thought she worked at Universal and frequented Sawgrass etc, her belief that she had a movie star as her coworker, and about one of her co-workers being a "different" Jeff Hopkins. The fact that she told one story about Caylee's going missing at Sawgrass, then very shortly after told a different story (Jay Blanchard Park) and apparently didn't see any problem with telling two different stories. The way the video of Caylee talking about her book seemed to have morphed in Casey's mind into a phone call she'd received from Caylee in which she talked about her book. A sane person would know all these things would very quickly be disproved, and would only make her look bad for saying them. Her theme that someone had given her a sort of verbal script to tell police, her theme that others had stolen her life, etc. Her failure to report the disappearance, her vagueness and illogical thinking processes and actions during the missing weeks and after, her completely inappropriate affect in mid-July, no urgency, no concern, preoccupied with trivial things, very flat voice and affect, very thin, vacant expression, etc. (Old friends said this was not like the Casey they knew at all, big change.) And on and on.

The detectives noticed how strange her statements were and asked her if she'd ever been committed at the mental hospital before. One of the defense attorneys also wanted to pursue the mental health angle (he left the team when this was not done.) Also, on the purely medical side, there's the history of (apparently untreated) seizures. I'm also curious about the way her eyes jiggle and wonder what the cause is. Personally, I do think it likely that either medical issues or mental health issues could be involved. Might not have anything to do with her being a killer. MOO

The witnesses admitted they did not know who Casey really was and that she lied to them about everything.

Caylee was abused. Dr. Green said Caylee was "savagely abused". The type and extent of abuse I do not claim to know - but Caylee was sleeping at parties, in bed with Casey's boyfriend, etc. Not stable at all. Casey did not provide for Caylee either - only Cindy and George did.

She still has not told anyone the truth about what she did with Caylee the last time she was with her (zani doesn't exist, she didn't drop her off at sawgrass...so what did she do with Caylee).

She wasn't confused - she was deliberately trying to cover her tracks and throw LE off. That is not confusion, it's willful.

Seizures don't make people murder children.

Casey was driving the car around, Casey had Caylee. Case closed imo.
 
There is scientific rationale why a blood soaked leather glove would shrink considerably and no longer fit the person who they belonged too or why it would be 1000 times more difficult to insert a latex glove covered hand into the crunchy shrunken glove but the jury ignored all logic and reason in favour of the catchy phrase 'If the glove doesn't fit, you can't convict'. So the jury didn't. That crime scene was far more horrific IMO.
Jesse G says he doesn't even know who this KC is. So with a clever lawyer you start with the states most credible witnesses and use them in your favour.
Hey I'm with you and want her to fry but I'm just speculating what this lawyer may be here for and I don't think it's helping LKB with forensics. I expect the ICA defense to make me want to vomit. Nobody can really understand how any young mother could do this. A Mental Health defense would be an explanation. I'm not saying it's right but hey even Cindy says KC is cut from the same cloth is her and we all know Cindy's crazy.
She just has to claim of hearing voices or having visual hallucinations. The voice told her not to tell the Psychiatrists, making their initial assessments nul and void per the defense. KC was so sick, she didn't even have the awareness to ask for help and Cindy the devoted RN who could have noticed the psychological distress was prevented from visiting.

Maybe I'm completely off base. I'm just preparing for the worst.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. She didn't suddenly develop schizophrenia. She was expert at doing what she wanted when she wanted (Fusian, partying, etc) and never seemed to have any issues with that. I just don't see something like that magically overcoming her and causing her to kill Caylee. I expect the defense to be an outrage as well. We have no alibi, no real defense, just smoke and mirrors.
 

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