April 15th wknd of Sleuthing

[Just the Fax]

I do think he will call her. I think he just really wanted CPD to explain why they didn't spend a lot of time following up with her and he wanted the jury to note that. I think he made his point.

His "point" was stricken from the record.
DD was apologetic to this woman that was begging for attention.
Will she finally get her 15 minutes of fame on the witness stand?

I think she will wish she never called CPD.

 

[johnfear]

Really? I am still amazed that I just read this. All African-Americans are not a Tyler Perry movie character. And as an African-American I did find it offensive. My impression I'm sure shared by members of the jury was not "Uh Huh" it was more like "Did he really just say he took photos to have for prosperity???"

Hey Sleuth, you just drove home one of my biggest things with this case.

We've respectfully agreed to disagree here and there are a lot of us here who represent the basics of both the jury pool and the gen. pop. and the differences in opinion on what we are seeing and hearing is HUGE.

I was thinking that DD was probably going to rub the guys the wrong way and possibly seem way too cocky. Stuff like prosperity seemed "nerve-ish" BUT kept happening.

 

[jmflu]

Hello!!!

 

[lib's mom]

IF (BIG if intentional) he really was concerned about his missing wife, I could see him quickly feeding the children (I still cringe when I see them referred to as "kids") and rushing out the door. I didn't see evidence of the caring part but would have to give him the benefit of the doubt on leaving behind the dishes. Me? I would have at least taken the time to put them in the sink and run water over them. Plus put the ketchup back in the 'fridge.

Remember that picture we saw of the kitchen Thursday? That had that big ole boiling pot with the tongs in it sitting on the stove? Unless Brad boiled a ham for the children for lunch on Saturday, I guarantee you that was the pot Nancy boiled the ribs for the party in on Friday still sitting there.

 

[gritguy]

The NC Pattern Jury Instruction for circumstantial evidence in a criminal case is this:

There are two types of evidence from which you may find the truth as to the facts of a case -- direct and circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence is the testimony of one who asserts actual knowledge of a fact, such as an eye-witness; circumstantial evidence is proof of a chain or group of facts and circumstances indicating the guilt or innocence of a defendant. The law makes no distinction between the weight to be given to either direct or circumstantial evidence. Nor is a greater degree of certainty required of circumstantial evidence than of direct evidence. You should weigh all the evidence in the case. After weighing all the evidence, if you are not convinced of the guilt of the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt, you must find the defendant not guilty.

 

[gritguy]

Under the North Carolina Rules of Evidence, hearsay is this:

"Hearsay. – "Hearsay" is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted."

The first work around is introducing the statement for a reason other than the truth of the matter asserted, even if you hope it will be considered for the truth of the matter asserted. Then, following the definition, the rules outline many, many exceptions to hearsay prohibition.

 

[Cheyenne130]

Remember that picture we saw of the kitchen Thursday? That had that big ole boiling pot with the tongs in it sitting on the stove? Unless Brad boiled a ham for the children for lunch on Saturday, I guarantee you that was the pot Nancy boiled the ribs for the party in on Friday still sitting there.

Trying to do that "benefit of the doubt" thing, it may well have been a clean pot that he washed and didn't put away.

 

[sunshine05]

IF (BIG if intentional) he really was concerned about his missing wife, I could see him quickly feeding the children (I still cringe when I see them referred to as "kids") and rushing out the door. I didn't see evidence of the caring part but would have to give him the benefit of the doubt on leaving behind the dishes. Me? I would have at least taken the time to put them in the sink and run water over them. Plus put the ketchup back in the 'fridge.

Speaking of this, I thought it was odd that when BC went to pick up the kids from HP's house on Saturday afternoon and KL was there, they went to a restaurant to eat. I couldn't imagine with all that was going on, going out to eat, or even eating at all. I would have just wanted to be home or out searching but it really did seem that there wasn't any food in the house. Were they really, really broke or what was going on in that home? I mean, NC bought ribs the previous night, why not get some food for the house too? And if she didn't have the money for that, she shouldn't have bought the ribs. It just seemed like they were really living on the edge. Both of them. If they were that strapped, did they really need the gym membership?

KL said she gave NC some money at the end of the vacation (but NC didn't have it anymore) and then JA paid her on Wednesday, so why didn't she stock the pantry and fridge?

 

[Lori59]

The NC Pattern Jury Instruction for circumstantial evidence in a criminal case is this:

There are two types of evidence from which you may find the truth as to the facts of a case -- direct and circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence is the testimony of one who asserts actual knowledge of a fact, such as an eye-witness; circumstantial evidence is proof of a chain or group of facts and circumstances indicating the guilt or innocence of a defendant. The law makes no distinction between the weight to be given to either direct or circumstantial evidence. Nor is a greater degree of certainty required of circumstantial evidence than of direct evidence. You should weigh all the evidence in the case. After weighing all the evidence, if you are not convinced of the guilt of the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt, you must find the defendant not guilty.

Thank you. I knew there was an instruction. This is such an important instruction for this case especially.

 

[Just the Fax]

gritguy...ok spill it.
Are you a winkipedia expert or an attorney?

 

[Lori59]

So is the circumstantial instruction standard or can the defense argue to not have it read to the jury?

 

[Lori59]

gritguy...ok spill it.
Are you a winkipedia expert or an attorney?

He could be both!

 

[gracielee]

Trying to do that "benefit of the doubt" thing, it may well have been a clean pot that he washed and didn't put away.

With the tongs still stuck in it? :waitasec: Not too bright, brad. should have waited till she had time to get home and wash out the pot before strangling her.

:maddening:

 

[Just the Fax]

I am still kinda in shock he planned this in advance.

 

[lib's mom]

Speaking of this, I thought it was odd that when BC went to pick up the kids from HP's house on Saturday afternoon and KL was there, they went to a restaurant to eat. I couldn't imagine with all that was going on, going out to eat, or even eating at all. I would have just wanted to be home or out searching but it really did seem that there wasn't any food in the house. Were they really, really broke or what was going on in that home? I mean, NC bought ribs the previous night, why not get some food for the house too? And if she didn't have the money for that, she shouldn't have bought the ribs. It just seemed like they were really living on the edge. Both of them. If they were that strapped, did they really need the gym membership?

KL said she gave NC some money at the end of the vacation (but NC didn't have it anymore) and then JA paid her on Wednesday, so why didn't she stock the pantry and fridge?

As far as the restaurant goes, I just took that as them going to a "neutral" location and easing B out of HP's house. According to the testimony B didn't want to leave KL and I'm sure K wanted to spend time with B, since she had just gotten there. I can see them saying: "Come on, B, let's go get your triangle bread! K will come too!" Brad's able to ease a child pitching a fit out of the house and K still gets to see her in a "neutral" location. JMO

 

[borndem]

That's what it sounds like. Do you know if the defense is done?

Sounds like da judge was getting antsy!

I agree. The judge was on his last nerve -- but no-o-o-o-o-o-o, did that stop the K-man? Nah, he just went right on, and the more he talked & sputtered, the better it sounded for the State. It's like he gets wound up & can't stop spinning...And tomorrow promises more of the same. He will probably score a few points (even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now & them), but it may be just next verse, same as the first.

 

[jrb0124]

His "point" was stricken from the record.
DD was apologetic to this woman that was begging for attention.
Will she finally get her 15 minutes of fame on the witness stand?

I think she will wish she never called CPD.

:waitasec: You have it backwards...CPD probably wishes she never called them - messed up the storyline they were sticking to at all costs.

Yes, there will be defense witnesses, some probably very effective at introducing reasonable doubt.

 

[ohiogirl]

So, the pictures of the house thing...was it really that messy looking to you guys?

I saw clutter and some mess, but not like in an uninhabitable form. More like in a packing/moving/staying/leaving/what-were-we-doing way.

Also, I think DD got heavily misquoted in MSM today. I think the "anger" side of things just garners more sympathy than needed to get a fair trial. he certainly didn't mean to do that.

I was having a hard time figuring out how BC cleaned everything he said he did, and then seemed to have put all the toys. boxes and junk right back in the middle of everything. I guess everyone has their own system?

 

[gracielee]

I am still kinda in shock he planned this in advance.

In a way yes, but I think the fake phone call kind of led in to the planning IMO. Part of me wanted to believe it was a heat of passion. But most of me thought it was preplanned.

 

[gritguy]

gritguy...ok spill it.
Are you a winkipedia expert or an attorney?

Attorney. I have to log in to casemaker through my bar association account since I don't actively litigate anymore. But I figured as much as some of these terms were being used and the level of interest in jury instructions I'd look them up! :rocker: