April 29 weekend of Sleuthiness

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Macd, Sorry for posting from the iphone earlier. I was out playing and basically screwed up my commas.

What I was saying to you and SleuthinNC was this:

It doesn't matter what the rules say.

You are asking a JURY to look at a new piece of evidence in a case where the defense offered NO theory at all. They simply set about disproving the pros theory.

Bad, bad timing all around. Here's why:

Opening statement:

Ducks, money,necklace,wrong color dress,domestic violence, spoofed phone call, he dunnit.

Closing Statement:

Oops on the ducks, oops on the necklace, oops on the wrong color dress, oops on the spoofed phone call, BUT, he did Google Maps the body dumpsite for 41 seconds. He had a router in his house. She might have been in a black dress with no necklace buying stuff on that HT video you saw, but domestic violence. Here's a router log. He dunnit.

Do you see how this is kind of a mess? If not, I'll just wait to see the rest and we can fight it out in the replays. I wasn't disagreeing that the evidence could be allowed or not. I was saying/typing that the problem is not with it's introduction, it's with it being contradicted in the testimony of the prosecution witnesses to date, being asked questions by the prosecution, who are now gonna recall the same witnesses and ask NEW questions about the same things with different answers and risk this:

GIVING THE IMPRESSION TO THE JURY THAT EVEN THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT...they are just gonna keep shaking the evidence tree seeing what fruit may fall.

And this is a jury who is saying: Can we go home now?

I agree it's like the big finale to the 3-ring circus. I think think the upcoming testimony is going to be interesting to watch from the strategery perspective.

That's why I was saying the prosecution better bring in a slam dunk and prove the calls once and for all in front of this jury but it doesn't seem as though that is what will happen.

If the venue were anything other than a courtroom I would expect boos and throwing of rotten tomatoes when Boz begins weaving his router tapestry.
 
I don't know that I"d base my vote on this one case. How many times do we have a super-duper computer whiz murder his wife and use computers/routers/VOIP, etc., as part of his MO. All of this new technology takes time and money to train and purchase equipment, etc. for their employees. Much like the attorney's of today have learned DNA technology, upcoming lawyers and members of LE will become better in the technology of the digital world IMO. The economy of these last eight years left little room for the money it takes to hire more people and educate them. Even with DNA, we don't have the money to keep up with the many samples needing to be tested still.

I think you mean:

"How many times do we have a super-duper computer whiz ALLEDGEDLY murder his wife and use computers/routers/VOIP, etc., as part of his MO.
 
Kurtz is using it as the office PBX :)

LMAO. Two sleuths for the price of one today. You and SS rock.

I can hear BC now: You guys want to put some videos online? I have a router we can use to tap in, set up a server and throw them on there. Let's do it.
 
Don't forget me Gracielee! I think you're initial reply may have been deleted, but I'm sure you will give us your case when you have some time this weekend.

All - I believe Gracielee is being extremely gracious in offering to give us her thoughts. Please be respectul. There are obviously two sides of opinion, and her rational can give us all, on both sides of the fence, a lot of insight. :great:

I haven't forgotten you, but I don't know why my reply would have been deleted, so perhaps something I said is forbidden? What did I say that was cause for it to be deleted? I don't want to make the same mistake. Just taking a 'planting break' here. Gardening is HARD WORK. Pheewww!
 
FWIW, if the speculation is true that what is going to be introduced is a Windows event log containing a duplicate IP address error, it sounds like it is likely Event ID 4199.
 
I haven't forgotten you, but I don't know why my reply would have been deleted, so perhaps something I said is forbidden? What did I say that was cause for it to be deleted? I don't want to make the same mistake. Just taking a 'planting break' here. Gardening is HARD WORK. Pheewww!
Since you asked I looked it up for you. Your post was removed because you made a derogatory comment about other members.
That is verboten anywhere on WS.

hth
 
FWIW, if the speculation is true that what is going to be introduced is a Windows event log containing a duplicate IP address error, it sounds like it is likely Event ID 4199.

That's what I thought and also why I am confused as to why an IP mismatch of the router would show up in the windows event log.
 
I haven't forgotten you, but I don't know why my reply would have been deleted, so perhaps something I said is forbidden? What did I say that was cause for it to be deleted? I don't want to make the same mistake. Just taking a 'planting break' here. Gardening is HARD WORK. Pheewww!

We're planting the garden today--the same garden I was supposed to plant last Tuesday. Also flowers. The air was chilly this morning, felt so good, but it's warm now. I'm too old to be a farmer any more.
 
Originally Posted by Cheyenne130
If I'm understanding this correctly, what some are saying here is that because the police left the computer on for 27 hours after the search warrant was served any evidence found on the computer should be thrown out because of "spoilage"? I can't say that I would be able to accept that if I was on the jury.

Not that's it's really similar, but what if an analogy can be made, like what if a DNA sample was left in an unsecured/unsterile lab for 27 hours. Would you consider that sample to have 'spoilage'?

I'm not arguing that it's spoiled either, just throwing the thought out there.

The Cooper house was not at all like an unsecured lab. As soon as police assumed control over the house under the SW, they put the familiar yellow tape around it, posted police in marked patrol cars at the house 24/7, and no one was allowed inside unless authorized.

Usually when a house is under LE control, entry by only one person is not allowed -- this most certainly includes LEOs. So no single individual could enter. The computer was still plugged in, along with everything else in the house because they were not planning to do the search/seizure at that time.

When the computer was seized, two specialized individuals performed it, or if they were separated, it was done in the presence of other LEOs on the scene. The computers were unplugged, not turned off, batteries were removed, and the items were taped, put in sealed "Evidence" envelopes which were signed by the seizing officers, and taken directly to the evidence locker. All of the officers, in their various cars, "caravanned" (word?) there, making no stops.

This "dual control" protocol is not just in LE situations -- when employees in certain jobs have to be bonded for insurance or legal reasons, dual control protocol is requred by the bonding company. Any time important items are in custody, no single individual is left alone with such items. It relieves a single person from possible accusal of tampering or theft, and it does not give a single person with bad intentions an opportunity to tamper or steal. Collusion, of course, could occur and then it's katie-bar-the-door with such evidence, but there we get quite afield, IMO.

Just sayin' ...
 
Part of the N&O article:

Defense objects

Investigators never found that router.

Fry said he found evidence that Cooper had checked out two routers from Cisco and that only one had been returned.

The defense argued that it was late in the trial to come up with new information. The team urged the judge to suppress the evidence and to not let Fry testify because he was not a forensic computer expert.

The judge denied both requests, but he said Fry would only be able to testify about matters that rebutted evidence presented by the defense.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/04...-doesnt.html#storylink=misearch#ixzz1L2bKiAeO

Does it bother anyone else that we've continued to hear over and over that "they never found ____" when it should say "investigators never looked for _______". Misstating it that way really slants things.

They did this with the dress, BC's shoes, the necklace, the ducks and now the router, if that turns out to be true. The state didn't even know what type of router to look for until defense brought it up in the trial, showing that there was not one present in the photos of the computer equipment.
 
I don't know that I"d base my vote on this one case. How many times do we have a super-duper computer whiz murder his wife and use computers/routers/VOIP, etc., as part of his MO. All of this new technology takes time and money to train and purchase equipment, etc. for their employees. Much like the attorney's of today have learned DNA technology, upcoming lawyers and members of LE will become better in the technology of the digital world IMO. The economy of these last eight years left little room for the money it takes to hire more people and educate them. Even with DNA, we don't have the money to keep up with the many samples needing to be tested still.
I disagree to a certain extent. This case isn't really about wiz-bang technology and VoIP magic, etc, even though the lawyers have tried to make it about that.

If he really did it, yet is found NG, it's not going to be because he managed some mastery with his technical knowledge. He won't have beat the CPD and DA's office because of some computer/phone heroics. His real feat is going to have been pulling this off with two children in the house and not leaving any real physical evidence or having been seen by anyone dumping the body. Being [presumably] an inexperienced killer and managing to do all of that while under a lot of stress and not make any mistakes is pretty incredible.

The reason anyone is caring about all of this technical stuff is because [if he did it] he was so surprisingly good at covering his non-technical tracks.
 
We're planting the garden today--the same garden I was supposed to plant last Tuesday. Also flowers. The air was chilly this morning, felt so good, but it's warm now. I'm too old to be a farmer any more.

No kidding. we too are working on vegetables & shrubs/perrenials. We planted six rhododendrons the other day, and three lilac bushes. Yesterday I bought some more azaleas & lilies. Way too old to be a farmer anymore. My husband has taken an interest in heirloom seed vegetable gardens, so we've grown our own tomato, pepper, etc. plants from the heirloom seeds he's bought online. We are attempting to get away from all the genetically altered seeds of today.
 
Don't forget me Gracielee! I think you're initial reply may have been deleted, but I'm sure you will give us your case when you have some time this weekend.

All - I believe Gracielee is being extremely gracious in offering to give us her thoughts. Please be respectul. There are obviously two sides of opinion, and her rational can give us all, on both sides of the fence, a lot of insight. :great:

I think I might just take a pass on this one, RN. :( The Moderator said I said something negative about other posters. I can't recall what it was I said, as I've been trying to just ignore those that tend to upset me, for lack of a better word. I'd really been trying to ignore so much, especially this past few days. I'm pretty much afraid to say anything right about now. :(
 
That's what I thought and also why I am confused as to why an IP mismatch of the router would show up in the windows event log.
I'm guessing here, but, assuming he had the 3825 and it caused a Duplicate IP Address error on the laptop, this could be because:

  • The 3825 was on a private subnet within the house (possibly just the typical 192.x.x.x network for home routers)
  • He connected the Ethernet port on the laptop to something that put it on the same LAN as the router (e.g. a switch) to telnet into the router
  • Because he didn't have DHCP enabled on the router, he hand configured an address for the Ethernet port on the laptop
  • He screwed up and picked as the address for the laptop the same address that he had configured for the router
  • He got the Duplicate Address Error and then reconfigured either the laptop or the router to have a different address
  • He then telnet'd into the router
 
I think I might just take a pass on this one, RN. :( The Moderator said I said something negative about other posters. I can't recall what it was I said, as I've been trying to just ignore those that tend to upset me, for lack of a better word. I'd really been trying to ignore so much, especially this past few days. I'm pretty much afraid to say anything right about now. :(

C'mon Gracie I would like to hear it too and I do not care if you call me names.
 
I'm guessing here, but, assuming he had the 3825 and it caused a Duplicate IP Address error on the laptop, this could be because:

  • The 3825 was on a private subnet within the house (possibly just the typical 192.x.x.x network for home routers)
  • He connected the Ethernet port on the laptop to something that put it on the same LAN as the router (e.g. a switch) to telnet into the router
  • Because he didn't have DHCP enabled on the router, he hand configured an address for the Ethernet port on the laptop
  • He screwed up and picked as the address for the laptop the same address that he had configured for the router
  • He got the Duplicate Address Error and then reconfigured either the laptop or the router to have a different address
  • He then telnet'd into the router

Ok we are thinking along the same lines. Which means with this scenario I can add an OR

OR

He connected the laptop to the LAN which previously had the IP address of the 3285 statically mapped in the router, got the duplicate IP address error, reconfigured his IP and went about his business. The 3825 wasn't really there but the IP address was and the MAC was still in the ARP table.
 
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