Found Deceased AR - Ashley Bush, 33, *31 wks pregnant, met woman online for job interview*, Maysville, 31 October 2022

[Tealgrove]

This is beyond belief.

How could she possibly get away with this?

 

[bestill]

These two are the same age, unbelievable. JMO

 

[cujenn81]

Okay, so after reading that Criminal Complaint, I am concerned that she's only been charged with Kidnapping resulting in a Death. I know they said that additional charges may be coming, but is that because they are determining the COD since the body was burned? I really hope they are able to determine a clear COD because I cannot stomach the thought that this woman wouldn't be charged with murder.

RIGHT!?? I certainly hope they add more charges.

Also, please disregard if they’ve already upgraded the charges. I’m not fully caught up yet.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Could be, especially if they were in a panic and only thinking about saving the baby.

I wonder if it makes a difference what they're charged with if it turns out the baby was alive?

Historically, for there to be a murder charge, I believe the baby has to be born alive (Born alive rule - Wikipedia). Some US states do now have fetal homicide laws, but I don't think Arkansas or Missouri do. (State Laws on Fetal Homicide and Penalty-enhancement for Crimes Against Pregnant Women) If the baby took a breath, then she was alive at birth, and AW can be charged for the murder of Ashley Bush as well as the murder of Valkyrie. (not a legal expert, this is just my understanding as a lay person.)

 

[MsMarple]

I think back to the start of this when Josh said that “Lucy” had asked to “buy the baby”, so when Ashley declined, this is what AW escalated to. I cannot wrap my head around this.

All while possibly luring her in with the giving of baby clothes she’d possibly bought for a pregnancy she had faked. IMO

Thinking about this makes me incredibly sad. Josh and Ashley, based on FB posts, were struggling financially. They were desperate to provide for their family.

And along comes a spider who senses their desperation and decides to commit a heinous crime to her benefit. How sad that something as simple as an offer of baby clothes and a job could lure an innocent couple into her lair?

We need to do better as a society. MOO.

 

[MsMarple]

Historically, for there to be a murder charge, I believe the baby has to be born alive (Born alive rule - Wikipedia). Some US states do now have fetal homicide laws, but I don't think Arkansas or Missouri do. (State Laws on Fetal Homicide and Penalty-enhancement for Crimes Against Pregnant Women) If the baby took a breath, then she was alive at birth, and AW can be charged for the murder of Ashley Bush as well as the murder of Valkyrie. (not a legal expert, this is just my understanding as a lay person.)

The Benton County spokesperson said at the presser that in Arkansas if someone murders a pregnant woman they can be charged with the death of the fetus also.

And if the coroner finds that the baby took even one breath it's considered a live birth - and murder.

 

[cujenn81]

And, they did have a service for the baby with a few others in attendance. The coroner said they all seemed very upset.

When the coroner mentioned doing an autopsy Amber asked if they were going to do a DNA test.

Who paid for the service? They can’t pay for gas but can afford to pay for a funeral service and cremation? They’re not cheap, I can tell you that much!

 

[bestill]

Who paid for the service? They can’t pay for gas but can afford to pay for a funeral service and cremation? They’re not cheap, I can tell you that much!

Some funeral homes do complementary services for babies in the south. I have witnessed this locally.

 

[otto]

I can’t believe they actually had a memorial service AND planned to have a cremation—an awfully thoughtful way to get rid of evidence, for two people who clearly made dumb decisions throughout the rest of this whole thing.

My brain can’t make it make sense. A service for the baby YOU killed….I think AW is mentally unwell at the very least, so I don’t doubt she actually was mourning. After all, she did commit murder just to get her hands on this precious baby. Ugh. So sick and twisted.

I sadly expected this to be a plot to steal Ashley’s baby. I did not expect these awful details that have been coming out lately. What is wrong with people, ugh

eta: I don’t mean to call the baby ‘evidence’ that way and sound insensitive. I’m just not sure a better way to word it at the moment

What it looks like is that she needed a baby, dead or alive, to produce for her 6-8 family members. If she was just stealing a baby from a stranger, and the baby accidentally died, why have a funeral? Why not get rid of the body?

She didn't get rid of the 31 week fetus/baby body, so she needed the baby for something? What is that? Why did she have a funeral for a dead baby that she cut out of another woman? Is there compensation for women who have a stillborn? Why did she want her husband to believe that she was pregnant and then enlist him to burn the evidence? What was she up to?

 

[Snoopster]

I've just read through the PC documents and I'm confused. (Not an unusual state for me.)

AB's Oct 31 Google Maps timeline showed:
- 11:07a from Gravette to Maysville. [why would the phone go back to Maysville at this time?]
- 11:41a leaves Maysville. [what could have happened in Maysville for over half an hour?]
- 6:51p returns to Maysville. [Was this when phone was thrown from the vehicle by a male?]

AB's Oct 31 phone showed:
- phone left Maysville and went to Pineville [timing leaving Maysville is not stated. Maysville is a 53 minute drive away from Pineville according to Google Maps by the most direct route.]
- 1:09 - 1:28 at Lauglin Ridge Rd in Pineville [this could tie into the 11:41 departure listed above if an indirect route was taken or a stop to kill AB happened ]

There is no mention of the phone timing leaving Maysville in the morning. There is no mention of the phone or Google Maps at Maysville at 3:09. Wouldn't they want to show that the truck drove through Maysville at 3:09? I understand that they might be just including specific times in the probable cause documents, but I'm still confused.

I believe that Amber was murdered between 11:30 and 1:28. I believe Amber was dead in the van when it drove by her fiance in Maysville at 3:09. Was it to convince him that she was running off? That she was alive?
I'm guessing that the phone was thrown out a vehicle window at 6:51 pm by JW. [do we know what kind of vehicle JW drives?]

 

[bestill]

I am wondering if Amber's son was the person in the truck that JW thought was Ashley that afternoon he saw them? JMO

 

[otto]

Reminds me of this case :

Murder_of_Bobbie_Jo_Stinnett

I remember that - something about a specific breed puppy. The baby was cut out before the mother was killed and the baby lived. In this case, it sounds like they killed the mother before cutting out the baby.

 

[Bluebythec]

Who paid for the service? They can’t pay for gas but can afford to pay for a funeral service and cremation? They’re not cheap, I can tell you that much!

From what I've read, most funeral homes won't charge for a stillborn or miscarriage.

 

[Snoopster]

I am wondering if Amber's son was the person in the truck that JW thought was Ashley that afternoon he saw them? JMO

Interesting thought.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Great catch on this document wording. How do they fix that and have they?

Just starting to read and the very first page..."...Arkansas, across the state line to Pineville, Missouri, the actions of the defendant resulting in the death of Amber Waterman, all in...."

Wth?

 

[Bluebythec]

What it looks like is that she needed a baby, dead or alive, to produce for her 6-8 family members. If she was just stealing a baby from a stranger, and the baby accidentally died, why have a funeral? Why not get rid of the body?

She didn't get rid of the 31 week fetus/baby body, so she needed the baby for something? What is that? Why did she have a funeral for a dead baby that she cut out of another woman? Is there compensation for women who have a stillborn? Why did she want her husband to believe that she was pregnant and then enlist him to burn the evidence? What was she up to?

I'm wondering if the baby was gasping for breath and she panicked and called the EMT's. Once she did that she really had no choice but to act like a grieving mother and continue the charade.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I hope the fact that he took the baby to his funeral home isn't a problem for the trial. JMO

He's the coroner so I wonder if that is where he does the autopsies? Perhaps the PD is too small to have it's own facility. ??

 

[sleepysleuth]

I was just discussing this case with my mom and I was asking why in the world a woman who appears to already be a mother would ever think a 31 weeker could survive without immediate medical assistance. She replied “well, she probably didn’t care if the baby survived. She just needed the proof that she was pregnant.”

Absolutely horrific.

IMO

 

[cujenn81]

From what I've read, most funeral homes won't charge for a stillborn or miscarriage.

That makes sense.

 

[LeBlack]

Historically, for there to be a murder charge, I believe the baby has to be born alive (Born alive rule - Wikipedia). Some US states do now have fetal homicide laws, but I don't think Arkansas or Missouri do. (State Laws on Fetal Homicide and Penalty-enhancement for Crimes Against Pregnant Women) If the baby took a breath, then she was alive at birth, and AW can be charged for the murder of Ashley Bush as well as the murder of Valkyrie. (not a legal expert, this is just my understanding as a lay person.)

If she took a breath and was alive at birth, they were trying to get her to the hospital. It was 'an accident' that she died. That's the defense. IMO