Found Deceased AR - Ashley Bush, 33, *31 wks pregnant, met woman online for job interview*, Maysville, 31 October 2022

[Bluebythec]

If she took a breath and was alive at birth, they were trying to get her to the hospital. It was 'an accident' that she died. That's the defense. IMO

IANAL but if the baby took a breath then died that would fall under the charge of kidnapping resulting in death, I would think. Not accidental. JMO

 

[Hoss569]

I remember that - something about a specific breed puppy. The baby was cut out before the mother was killed and the baby lived. In this case, it sounds like they killed the mother before cutting out the baby.

I thought the state lines, federallly tried case, triggered memories for me.

 

[musicaljoke]

I've just read through the PC documents and I'm confused. (Not an unusual state for me.)

AB's Oct 31 Google Maps timeline showed:
- 11:07a from Gravette to Maysville. [why would the phone go back to Maysville at this time?]
- 11:41a leaves Maysville. [what could have happened in Maysville for over half an hour?]
- 6:51p returns to Maysville. [Was this when phone was thrown from the vehicle by a male?]

AB's Oct 31 phone showed:
- phone left Maysville and went to Pineville [timing leaving Maysville is not stated. Maysville is a 53 minute drive away from Pineville according to Google Maps by the most direct route.]
- 1:09 - 1:28 at Lauglin Ridge Rd in Pineville [this could tie into the 11:41 departure listed above if an indirect route was taken or a stop to kill AB happened ]

There is no mention of the phone timing leaving Maysville in the morning. There is no mention of the phone or Google Maps at Maysville at 3:09. Wouldn't they want to show that the truck drove through Maysville at 3:09? I understand that they might be just including specific times in the probable cause documents, but I'm still confused.

I believe that Amber was murdered between 11:30 and 1:28. I believe Amber was dead in the van when it drove by her fiance in Maysville at 3:09. Was it to convince him that she was running off? That she was alive?
I'm guessing that the phone was thrown out a vehicle window at 6:51 pm by JW. [do we know what kind of vehicle JW drives?]

There's really no evidence that Amber was murdered before they drove by her fiancé at 3:00, and I think it very unlikely to be the case. "Lucy" called her husband around 4:30 to say she was miscarrying. I believe that was closer to the time Amber was murdered.

When a woman dies, doctors have only a matter of minutes to deliver her baby before the baby dies too.

 

[Mariposa]

I've just read through the PC documents and I'm confused. (Not an unusual state for me.)

AB's Oct 31 Google Maps timeline showed:
- 11:07a from Gravette to Maysville. [why would the phone go back to Maysville at this time?]
- 11:41a leaves Maysville. [what could have happened in Maysville for over half an hour?]
- 6:51p returns to Maysville. [Was this when phone was thrown from the vehicle by a male?]

AB's Oct 31 phone showed:
- phone left Maysville and went to Pineville [timing leaving Maysville is not stated. Maysville is a 53 minute drive away from Pineville according to Google Maps by the most direct route.]
- 1:09 - 1:28 at Lauglin Ridge Rd in Pineville [this could tie into the 11:41 departure listed above if an indirect route was taken or a stop to kill AB happened ]

There is no mention of the phone timing leaving Maysville in the morning. There is no mention of the phone or Google Maps at Maysville at 3:09. Wouldn't they want to show that the truck drove through Maysville at 3:09? I understand that they might be just including specific times in the probable cause documents, but I'm still confused.

I believe that Amber was murdered between 11:30 and 1:28. I believe Amber was dead in the van when it drove by her fiance in Maysville at 3:09. Was it to convince him that she was running off? That she was alive?
I'm guessing that the phone was thrown out a vehicle window at 6:51 pm by JW. [do we know what kind of vehicle JW drives?]

I agree this is confusing to me too. Where I end up is that this all seems to be based on tracking from Ashley’s phone only. Given how incredibly fast the investigation moved, and how they had ample facts for probable cause, they might not have yet have fully analyzed or written up other possible data that illustrate the chain of events (such as AW/JW cell phone data, possible camera footage on buildings of the truck, etc).

I think there was reference in the affidavit to JW having a blue truck that doesn’t run well - it was in the part of the affidavit where JW was describing the truck that they put Ashley’s remains in after the fire pit.

 

[gliving]

I remember that - something about a specific breed puppy. The baby was cut out before the mother was killed and the baby lived. In this case, it sounds like they killed the mother before cutting out the baby.

Yes, evidence seems to show she suffered a fatal gunshot wound in the truck. I highly doubt there was time to deliver a viable baby. SO SAD

 

[insearchoflight]

I agree this is confusing to me too. Where I end up is that this all seems to be based on tracking from Ashley’s phone only. Given how incredibly fast the investigation moved, and how they had ample facts for probable cause, they might not have yet have fully analyzed or written up other possible data that illustrate the chain of events (such as AW/JW cell phone data, possible camera footage on buildings of the truck, etc).

I think there was reference in the affidavit to JW having a blue truck that doesn’t run well - it was in the part of the affidavit where JW was describing the truck that they put Ashley’s remains in after the fire pit.

How were they able to organize and hold a funeral service for the baby if they were intercepted as the baby was dying? This has got to be one of the strangest…

 

[Mariposa]

I'm wondering if the baby was gasping for breath and she panicked and called the EMT's. Once she did that she really had no choice but to act like a grieving mother and continue the charade.

The affidavit says AW told police a relatives daughter who was at the house that day called 911. Also says her (AW’s) son was with her that day. So that raises questions of who else besides AW was in the house during that day up to the time of the 911 call and what they saw, namely, did they see Ashley? It can’t be that big of a house. Unless Ashley never came into the house. JW claimed to be at work prior to the 911 incident except for coming home at lunch and telling police no one was home at that time.

ETA: link to story that has the affidavits

Missouri Husband and Wife Now Face Federal Charges in Alleged Kidnapping and Murder of Pregnant Arkansas Woman

A Missouri couple now face federal charges in what federal authorities have called the "kidnapping and murder of a pregnant Arkansas woman."

lawandcrime.com

 

[Mariposa]

How were they able to organize and hold a funeral service for the baby if they were intercepted as the baby was dying? This has got to be one of the strangest…

What the coroner told CNN is the only source I’ve seen that describes that whole thing and how a funeral service occurred

Missing pregnant Arkansas mom and baby found dead in Missouri after couple allegedly kidnaps her | CNN

A Benton County, Arkansas, woman last seen on Monday and the baby she had been pregnant with are both dead in McDonald, Missouri, and a couple is facing charges in connection to the case.

www.cnn.com

 

[TwinkieDefense]

Nov 4, 2022:

NWA mom says she was almost target of woman charged in death of Ashley Bush

A Northwest Arkansas mom says she’s grateful to be alive after she almost fell victim to the online profile, “Lucy”, also known as the Amber Waterman, the woman charged in the dea…

www.ozarksfirst.com

[…]

Detectives say Amber used the fictitious name “Lucy Barrows” online to lure people in.

[…]

A local mom named Emily Smith who is 30 weeks pregnant says Ashley could’ve been her.

[…]

“She had sent these pictures of just a couple of different pictures of these tops, and there was a pair, a couple of shorts. And then, she said we could meet, ” Smith said.

However, Smith says something about their conversations seemed suspicious.

“The pictures, they weren’t like it looked like. She had just been taken in different places. There were different comforters on the bed, and I think maybe one was even a table. And then, I had looked at her profile and seen that it was only two days old,” Smith said.

[…]

 

[Soulmagent]

poor savanna greywind was alive and left to bleed to death on the floor.

I suspect the difference here is that ''LUCY'' never intended to have a live baby. IMO.. she was always plannning on a losing a baby.

However all the running around and the things she did in the time period. Its exhausting .

 

[katydid23]

What? OMG! They had a memorial service for the baby? I am absolutely speechless.

Yep, but only because she wanted her family to believe that she was really pregnant. Compulsive liars go to great extent to pretend to be truthful.

 

[sleepysleuth]

After rereading the CNN article I can’t tell if the funeral actually occurred. It’s confusing to me how the coroner worded it:

According to Goodwin, the Watermans arrived at the Ozark Funeral Home on Tuesday to make funeral arrangements with Goodwin for the baby.

“They come in here and are ready to make arrangements and have a service and cremate the baby afterwards,” Goodwin said.

Goodwin said the service was set for Wednesday and would include the couple in addition to 6 or 8 family members.

Shortly after the appointment, Goodwin received a phone call from the Benton County Coroner expressing suspicions about the identity of the baby.

“The Benton County Coroner calls me and says, ‘Hey, there is something going on with this baby. We think this is connected to the kidnapping,’” Goodwin said.

Goodwin was told the vehicle descriptions matched and that Benton County wanted to do an autopsy on the baby. Goodwin agreed but insisted the funeral happen first in case there was a mistake.

“When they get here Wednesday, we do the service with their family – everyone was very distraught – which is normal after parents who go through something so traumatic,” he said.

When Goodwin explained to Amber Waterman that the Benton County Coroner would be doing an autopsy on the baby, he said her demeanor changed and she asked if DNA tests would be conducted.

————————————————-

The way he said “when they get here Wednesday…” I can’t tell if he is explaining this to the Benton County Coroner or if he’s explaining to the interviewer that they did in fact conduct a funeral?

 

[leehull]

I was just discussing this case with my mom and I was asking why in the world a woman who appears to already be a mother would ever think a 31 weeker could survive without immediate medical assistance. She replied “well, she probably didn’t care if the baby survived. She just needed the proof that she was pregnant.”

Absolutely horrific.

IMO

These are my thoughts too, the baby was secondary, the whole idea was to get the husband back which appears to have happened. Just adds a whole new layer of evil to the most evil of acts

 

[Laughing]

DBM

Oh, I wanna know what you almost said....


@sleepysleuth , linked article reports that the service was held -- but that the Waterman's plan to cremate the remains were interrupted by law enforcement.

Justice for Valkryie & her loved ones!

(FYI -- both Arkansas & Missouri are death penalty states, used infrequently.)


jmho ymmv lrr

 

[sleepysleuth]

I also cannot make sense of this timeline.

MONDAY, OCT 31 - Amber kidnaps Ashley, kills her, calls husband at 4:30 and says she having a miscarriage. They meet with EMT and try to revive baby. Baby taken by Coroner.

MONDAY Night - Husband Jamie sees blood in truck and assumes it’s from the miscarriage. She cleans blood and together they burn the rags.

TUES, NOV 1 - they go to funeral home to make arrangements.

WED, NOV 2 - police come to their home early in the morning, Jamie acknowledges to LE that he is aware Ashley is missing from media coverage. Police conduct a search of the residence and seize the truck because of blood evidence. After LE leave Amber tells Jamie she killed Ashley and the body is beside the house. They proceed to burn body, move to another location. They also possibly have a funeral.

THUR, NOV 3 - LE conduct an interview with Jamie, he tells them what happened between Oct 31-Nov 2.

———————————————

Questions. SO. MANY. QUESTIONS.

1. Obviously Ashley suffered some kind of trauma in the truck because there was blood. Did Amber kill her and remove the baby in the truck? Did she then leave the baby and drag Ashley to the side of the house by herself?

2. Does Jamie then come to the house and Amber is just there with this lifeless baby? And they get in his truck? If Amber committed the crime as stated in question 1 - this baby would almost have to be completely lifeless, possibly cold at this point, right? I can’t imagine that stowing Ashley’s body was a very effortless and fast process. Why did they call 911 for immediate intervention on what had to be a very dead baby?

3. How did LE miss a body that would have almost certainly been decomposing at that point? Was there no smell?

4. Why didn’t Jamie question Amber burning the rags? Who BURNS rags? If you don’t want to wash them why not just toss? How would that not be a GIANT RED FLAG?

I have more questions, but right now I just can’t imagine there is any way that Jamie wasn’t WAY more involved in this process and that Ashley’s body wasn’t burned earlier than Wednesday morning.

 

[sleepysleuth]

I cannot fathom how Jamie would go from managing the trauma of his wife’s miscarriage, mourning the loss of his infant child, planning a funeral and then just suddenly be like “wait, you killed this woman and took her baby? Alright, cool well let’s burn the body and then go to a funeral.”

It just doesn’t add up at all for me.

 

[sleepysleuth]

Also - what are the odds that two witnesses saw a man, driving a blue or grey truck, toss her phone out the window on Oct 31 around 6:51pm and Jamie also drives a blue truck?

Jamie had to have been involved in this situation from the very get-go. He’s doing his best to make her take the fall for it, but Amber will probably roll on him soon. IMO.

 

[Black Diamond]

<modsnip - not permitted> Innocent until proven guilty, but once proven they deserve nothing short of torment for the rest of their lives.

The internet is the conduit of evil in today’s world, and social media is the worst evil within it. People needing constant attention, and when the mentally unstable ones don’t get any attention or the attention they like, bad things happen.

 

[bestill]

Was it reported that Ashley's body was found at a neighbors? I think I read that. I am confused about the timeline too and I think it will change as the investigation continues. JMO

 

[Hoss569]

Was it reported that Ashley's body was found at a neighbors? I think I read that. I am confused about the timeline too and I think it will change as the investigation continues. JMO

I thought I had read this also. But maybe it was between houses or she was closer to the neighbor? I have been trying to confirm this also. It is starting or sounds like things happened in the truck. I cannot think of how a single person(Amber) would have been able to get Ashley out of the truck and lay her down outside. Also, if Amber's life did end in the truck, how was the baby delivered, from what little research I have done is that the baby needs to be born fairly quick after the mother is deceased. So, bottom line, I guess is the stories are not coming together at this point, or in other words, Jamie (possibly someone else) is WAY more involved. The funeral is pretty odd in my book, I mean family (outside of immediate family) would have surely been scratching there head, I know I would have.