AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[Yoda]

He seems to believe what he preaches. The garden photos show the family has a huge, bountiful garden with a greenhouse and the children are all smiles in showing off the impressive results.

He does. I can see where his son gets his calm demeanor. I listened to several more. It is apparent he did a few of these when there was teenage turmoils going on in the home. He was expecting his children to follow the house rules.
He read passages from the bible that spoke of if a parent loves a child they will correct them. He did speak of spanking, rods, pain was temporary. He seems to be a devote christian who uses the bible as he guide for life. Jmo

 

[Mountaingazer]

Hard labor how?

I find it difficult to believe the older child in this case turned out so well if the parents are all that screwed up. They did something right with his home schooling if he's been able to go on to college and do well.

JMO

Not really an indicator in my opinion. I know many people who were victims of child abuse and are quite successful in their adult years. Most of them never had any interception of abuse by LE or CPS either and still turned out fine.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

He does. I can see where his son gets his calm demeanor. I listened to several more. It is apparent he did a few of these when there was teenage turmoils going on in the home. He was expecting his children to follow the house rules.
He read passages from the bible that spoke of if a parent loves a child they will correct them. He did speak of spanking, rods, pain was temporary. He seems to be a devote christian who uses the bible as he guide for life. Jmo

I listened to the "Father is the head of the household" speech he gave from your link. He talks about how if he loves his children he must chasten them using the rod. He must listen to God even if the state comes after him. He says the day he stops chastening "you", you'll know I've given up on you. There is much more.

Honestly, for me it is very hard to listen to and I would have rebelled and received many "chastenings" as a child, which would have resulted in my parents giving up on me and not loving me anymore. How very sad to insinuate that a child is not going to receive the love of their father if that do not believe, act, do as, obey their father even when they are grown.

The website states that the father has a total of 14 children. I wonder how well it has gone with the other 5 that are grown that are not from his current wife.

 

[K_Z]

Yup. Agree, Beginner'sLuck.

I've said from the beginning of discussion of this case that it has all the strong warning signs of religious child maltreatment. And every little piece that comes out only confirms that more strongly for me. This isn't about politics or persecution, it's about child abuse administered with religion as an excuse, IMO.

The YouTube lecture linked way up is an excellent watch, IMO. Thanks for posting that, BL.

http://religiouschildmaltreatment.com

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I have issue with those that abuse our "rights" to try and justify actions and behavior. To many have taken things to extremes which have resulted in additional laws being enacted to protect others in our society. Those that push the limits are a threat to our freedoms.

Religious freedom or beliefs of a individual, does not give them the right to harm others because they "think" God talked to them and told them to do so. I'm sure there are a million different ways humans could interpret verses in the bible to try and justify all sorts of actions.

Freedom of speech does not give people the right to harass, bully, defame or threaten other humane beings. I could go on and on.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere and that line falls when it threatens the well being of others.

 

[southsleuth]

SWAT is one division of the ASP. It is used in limited circumstances. Just because the ASP may have been there doesn't mean their SWAT division was. And why are you picking one statement of the father to believe in but not others? Because his statement about how the "raid" happened excludes the possibility that there was a SWAT raid at all.

SWAT does not knock on your door and wait patiently on your porch for you to come out while discussing with you where to talk. Sorry.

Not at all a SWAT team. Most likely a team (maybe 3-4) was sent because of the complaints. In my county more than 2 deputies are sent for an eviction because emotions run high and deputies don't know what awaits them. More than once a deputy has been shot serving papers or actually carrying out an eviction. Guns in the house and throwing a family out can get very serious. I would think that removing children would make for some pretty tense moments.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Yup. Agree, Beginner'sLuck.

I've said from the beginning of discussion of this case that it has all the strong warning signs of religious child maltreatment. And every little piece that comes out only confirms that more strongly for me. This isn't about politics or persecution, it's about child abuse administered with religion as an excuse, IMO.

The YouTube lecture linked way up is an excellent watch, IMO. Thanks for posting that, BL.

http://religiouschildmaltreatment.com

I believe it was your link that led me to the additional links of speakers at the conference. I was able to listen to a few because I was in bed ill at the time. I tried to stay rather reserved with my comments, because I didn't want to go off on wild speculation, especially after watching the videos.

I spent time searching for additional info online with no luck. Yoda found what I was looking for. Thank you Yoda!! That web page brought all those pieces together for me.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I listened to the "Father is the head of the household" speech he gave from your link. He talks about how if he loves his children he must chasten them using the rod. He must listen to God even if the state comes after him. He says the day he stops chastening "you", you'll know I've given up on you. There is much more.

Honestly, for me it is very hard to listen to and I would have rebelled and received many "chastenings" as a child, which would have resulted in my parents giving up on me and not loving me anymore. How very sad to insinuate that a child is not going to receive the love of their father if that do not believe, act, do as, obey their father even when they are grown.

The website states that the father has a total of 14 children. I wonder how well it has gone with the other 5 that are grown that are not from his current wife.

Oops! I believe in my post that I noted the wrong speech that I listened to. It's the one above it that I was commenting on titled: "Chastening is for Profit".

eta: Oh my! Nevermind! I think I have confused myself because there are more than one of these lectures on beating or err...chastening.

 

[daisytrail]

IME child abuse that results in removal of the children from the home frequently does not result in criminal charges. It takes some pretty heinous, and I do mean HEINOUS, abuse round my parts for parents to be charged. More often parents are given a reunification plan, made to get counselling, do drug screenings, take parenting classes, etc depending on the abuse alleged. This allows them to avoid criminal charges and regain eventual custody of their kids.

Reunification is CPS expressly stated goal. I won't even start ranting on that topic. Ya'll know me well enough to know that is a button pusher for me.

I find this comment and, finally, I am nodding my head. There are many good insights here and experienced people providing good information, but there is nothing I agree with more than this. Family preservation be hanged. It is child preservation that should come first. Of course, this would require spending much more money for the benefit of these children. Children have rights and they deserve to feel safe and have people who care for them. CPS is underfunded, understaffed, and most of the time, under fire. The job is draining and the frontline caseworkers deserver far more credit than they get. That said, they also need more oversight. Too many children get sent home before their future safety is reliably secured.

These children should not be returned to their family until those teenaged children approaching their majority have some say in how they choose to be educated. They will not be living in a bubble of purity in the future. They will be living in this world. If they feel that public school will best prepare them to meet it, then they should have that choice. Children in their teen years should not be forced to accept the religious views of their parents.

 

[wendybtn]

After watching the adult son's interview, and the youtube of the parents and neighbor, I'm increasingly convinced that this is a case of religious child maltreatment. IMO, the adult son loves his parents and siblings, and believes his parents "truly" believe that their approaches to some aspects of parenting are "correct", but that they are tremendously misguided. He went out of his way to express his love, but NOT express his support for their behaviors (and didn't elaborate on the behaviors). I think it is very telling that he is stepping back and allowing the system to investigate the situation, and handle the housing and fostering of his siblings. That's huge, IMO. I think it's possible he was in on this before LE arrived at the parents' home. He seems pretty calm, almost relieved in his interview-- not angry or panicked at all.

This is typical of extremist religious child maltreatment--the parent truly believes that whatever they are doing, their manipulative parenting approach, or abusive disciplinary techniques, are done in the name of God and saving the soul of the wayward children, therefore they are justified and vindicated. Breaking the will of the rebellious child to bend to the will of the parent, is a consistent theme. I'm hearing that loud and clear here-- from the father, the mother, the adult son, etc. And yet no one has described any specific behaviors of the "teens" that are unlawful or self destructive, drugs, criminal, etc.

I don't believe there is a vast conspiracy from the courts, LE, and DHS, and the adult son, to scapegoat the parents. There is something profoundly odd and uncomfortable going on here, IMO-- and it's not about the parents homeschooling, or believing in the Bible, or even the MMS usage-- which is pure quackery, IMO-- and profoundly dangerous. Everything I'm hearing is more like the extremism of brainwashing and psychological manipulation that occurs in cults, IMO.

A child can definitely be maltreated, or even abused, and not show a single bruise, scratch, or mark. That's what I think has been established by the court hearing continuing the DHS custody situation.

http://religiouschildmaltreatment.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_abuse

My own father survived far worse than this in his family of origin and has had a successful life anyway. When kids are murdered in their own homes and thrown off bridges alive, this case appears to be a bit of an over reaction. I will still be surprised if any actual substantial charges are filed. I understand a report has to be followed up. But there are homes,parents, and children in the news every day that give off a much worse first impression and CPS leaves the kids there to be murdered before the next visit. Frankly, people outside the South and big city dwellers love these stories of rural backwards rednecks poisoning their children and potential incest and bestiality. They love it even more if they have poor dentition. JMO. I am not from the South, but I live here now, and while I love a good Jeff Foxworthy joke, I see the joy on the MSM when a seemingly different country person gets LE attention among 'reports' and 'allegations.'

 

[wendybtn]

I find this comment and, finally, I am nodding my head. There are many good insights here and experienced people providing good information, but there is nothing I agree with more than this. Family preservation be hanged. It is child preservation that should come first. Of course, this would require spending much more money for the benefit of these children. Children have rights and they deserve to feel safe and have people who care for them. CPS is underfunded, understaffed, and most of the time, under fire. The job is draining and the frontline caseworkers deserver far more credit than they get. That said, they also need more oversight. Too many children get sent home before their future safety is reliably secured.

These children should not be returned to their family until those teenaged children approaching their majority have some say in how they choose to be educated. They will not be living in a bubble of purity in the future. They will be living in this world. If they feel that public school will best prepare them to meet it, then they should have that choice. Children in their teen years should not be forced to accept the religious views of their parents.

But then are you upset if the child is groomed over the internet and their parents were not all over it? They either need supervision and rules or they don't. If they are that mature at 15 or 16, then they can find a lawyer, emancipate themselves, and move on. If some kid skips the legal emancipation part, we are so mad that LE does not jump all over this case to the exclusion of others. Why? Because we think that they are too immature to make these decisions and take these actions. But a couple of good-looking, well-nourished homeschoolers who have out of the mainstream parents complain to their friends, as kids do, and there are people who do not know them ready to diagnose them and keep their kids away from the parents. I have a lot of friends who do things differently than myself and DH do with our kids. I hear, "You guys are the strictest parents I know!" But my friends nor myself are necessarily wrong, just do it a little differently, that's all. Sorry for the rant. I just cannot put the,"kids should make their own decisions," together with all the kids I see on here who perhaps needed a little more rules, supervision and expectations. And face it, you cannot have it both ways.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

My own father survived far worse than this in his family of origin and has had a successful life anyway. When kids are murdered in their own homes and thrown off bridges alive, this case appears to be a bit of an over reaction. I will still be surprised if any actual substantial charges are filed. I understand a report has to be followed up. But there are homes,parents, and children in the news every day that give off a much worse first impression and CPS leaves the kids there to be murdered before the next visit. Frankly, people outside the South and big city dwellers love these stories of rural backwards rednecks poisoning their children and potential incest and bestiality. They love it even more if they have poor dentition. JMO. I am not from the South, but I live here now, and while I love a good Jeff Foxworthy joke, I see the joy on the MSM when a seemingly different country person gets LE attention among 'reports' and 'allegations.'

These parents made a choice to speak out and try and rally others around them, because they knew that they were going to have to try and find a way to justify their actions. There is a donation site for the parents. They ask people to rally for the parents. There is a FB page for the parents.

Just because there may be worse things that happen to children that we read about in the news, doesn't make any type of abuse "ok". I care about the safety and well being of all children first and foremost. I believe in preventive measures. I don't like reading about things that escalate and end up being much worse.

I don't believe in beating anyone into submission. I don't believe in using God or bible verses to justify wrong behavior. I wouldn't tolerate anyone doing it to me or my child and I have a duty to speak out if any human being is being mistreated in anyway.

By the way...I absolutely love the idea of living of the land. I can only dream about such a wonderful garden. I would have to hire a staff to have something like that though, so it's not a possibility for me. I think it's great to be able to have the time to home school children. There are other things that the family does that I like the concept of, such as living a simple life. Physically or psychologically harming other human beings isn't something I find admirable.

 

[jnblsm]

But then are you upset if the child is groomed over the internet and their parents were not all over it? They either need supervision and rules or they don't. If they are that mature at 15 or 16, then they can find a lawyer, emancipate themselves, and move on. If some kid skips the legal emancipation part, we are so mad that LE does not jump all over this case to the exclusion of others. Why? Because we think that they are too immature to make these decisions and take these actions. But a couple of good-looking, well-nourished homeschoolers who have out of the mainstream parents complain to their friends, as kids do, and there are people who do not know them ready to diagnose them and keep their kids away from the parents. I have a lot of friends who do things differently than myself and DH do with our kids. I hear, "You guys are the strictest parents I know!" But my friends nor myself are necessarily wrong, just do it a little differently, that's all. Sorry for the rant. I just cannot put the,"kids should make their own decisions," together with all the kids I see on here who perhaps needed a little more rules, supervision and expectations. And face it, you cannot have it both ways.

I agree with you, completely!
My kids would probably say my husband and I were tough, but fair. Heck NO, they didn't get to make decisions about where/if they went to school. They had some say in how they dressed, did their hair, etc., but only within OUR limits. All 3 had age-appropriate chores and they got grounded, got their stuff taken away, and lost other privileges for not doing what we expected. They were active in school sports, fine arts, and excelled academically and socially.
They knew/know age 18 is when you either go to college, or go in the military but you leave this house. Our daughter got her Bachelor's in 4 years. Our first son is in his 2nd semester of college at 18, our "baby" is 16 and wrestles on the varsity squad while making straight A's in AP and Honors' classes.
NEVER ONCE WOULD THEY CONSIDER RUNNING AWAY. Bragging complete.

I just get so sick of seeing the homelife of the kids that we look for on WS. I think too many are allowed independence too quickly. They aren't always ready. The parents are run over and try to hard to be "friends" with their kids.
Rant complete.

 

[daisytrail]

But then are you upset if the child is groomed over the internet and their parents were not all over it? They either need supervision and rules or they don't. If they are that mature at 15 or 16, then they can find a lawyer, emancipate themselves, and move on. If some kid skips the legal emancipation part, we are so mad that LE does not jump all over this case to the exclusion of others. Why? Because we think that they are too immature to make these decisions and take these actions. But a couple of good-looking, well-nourished homeschoolers who have out of the mainstream parents complain to their friends, as kids do, and there are people who do not know them ready to diagnose them and keep their kids away from the parents. I have a lot of friends who do things differently than myself and DH do with our kids. I hear, "You guys are the strictest parents I know!" But my friends nor myself are necessarily wrong, just do it a little differently, that's all. Sorry for the rant. I just cannot put the,"kids should make their own decisions," together with all the kids I see on here who perhaps needed a little more rules, supervision and expectations. And face it, you cannot have it both ways.

Hmm. Believe you are referring to another thread entirely. I don't peg so easily. You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine.

 

[MyBelle]

Not really an indicator in my opinion. I know many people who were victims of child abuse and are quite successful in their adult years. Most of them never had any interception of abuse by LE or CPS either and still turned out fine.

I know many people who were not victims of child abuse and are quite successful. We don't know if the Stanley's son is a victim nor has he claimed to be a victim of child abuse.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

These parents made a choice to speak out and try and rally others around them, because they knew that they were going to have to try and find a way to justify their actions. There is a donation site for the parents. They ask people to rally for the parents. There is a FB page for the parents.

Just because there may be worse things that happen to children that we read about in the news, doesn't make any type of abuse "ok". I care about the safety and well being of all children first and foremost. I believe in preventive measures. I don't like reading about things that escalate and end up being much worse.

I don't believe in beating anyone into submission. I don't believe in using God or bible verses to justify wrong behavior. I wouldn't tolerate anyone doing it to me or my child and I have a duty to speak out if any human being is being mistreated in anyway.

By the way...I absolutely love the idea of living of the land. I can only dream about such a wonderful garden. I would have to hire a staff to have something like that though, so it's not a possibility for me. I think it's great to be able to have the time to home school children. There are other things that the family does that I like the concept of, such as living a simple life. Physically or psychologically harming other human beings isn't something I find admirable.

The parents haven't been charged with abuse or neglect so it is a giant leap to conclude the children are literally being beaten into submission.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

I find this comment and, finally, I am nodding my head. There are many good insights here and experienced people providing good information, but there is nothing I agree with more than this. Family preservation be hanged. It is child preservation that should come first. Of course, this would require spending much more money for the benefit of these children. Children have rights and they deserve to feel safe and have people who care for them. CPS is underfunded, understaffed, and most of the time, under fire. The job is draining and the frontline caseworkers deserver far more credit than they get. That said, they also need more oversight. Too many children get sent home before their future safety is reliably secured.

These children should not be returned to their family until those teenaged children approaching their majority have some say in how they choose to be educated. They will not be living in a bubble of purity in the future. They will be living in this world. If they feel that public school will best prepare them to meet it, then they should have that choice. Children in their teen years should not be forced to accept the religious views of their parents.

BBM 1st paragraph. I agree 100%. While reunification was successful in my situation and I am thankful daily that the intervention of CPS set my life on a different, far better, course, I KNOW that I was one of the lucky ones and that far too many end up reunified to death.

My own father survived far worse than this in his family of origin and has had a successful life anyway. When kids are murdered in their own homes and thrown off bridges alive, this case appears to be a bit of an over reaction. I will still be surprised if any actual substantial charges are filed. I understand a report has to be followed up. But there are homes,parents, and children in the news every day that give off a much worse first impression and CPS leaves the kids there to be murdered before the next visit. Frankly, people outside the South and big city dwellers love these stories of rural backwards rednecks poisoning their children and potential incest and bestiality. They love it even more if they have poor dentition. JMO. I am not from the South, but I live here now, and while I love a good Jeff Foxworthy joke, I see the joy on the MSM when a seemingly different country person gets LE attention among 'reports' and 'allegations.'

BBM That is horrid and I hope you realize that not all non southerners feel at all like that. The minority can sometimes be more noticable in their idiocy than the majority. I have not seen anyone on this thread gleefully hating on the south or southerners as incestious bestiality driven toothless backwards folks. I think our members are a bit more educated themselves than to fall prey to such ridiculous notions. I can assure you I do not take joy in this case and would be right here on this :fence: no matter what region, state or country this was taking place in.

Jumping off some of the discussion I have seen on teens being allowed to have more say. I don't subscribe to teens being allowed a whole bunch of freedoms that go against the grain of their parents religious beliefs. Time enough for them to assert their independence as adults, they are close enough to wait for that chance IMO. But IF parents beliefs are to inflict beatings, abuse, etc. then I do feel it is appropriate for authorities to intervene. I do not know what the specifics are in this case so I cannot know if the parents beliefs are a factor or not. All I have heard from is the parents who seem to claim that is so, the son who seems to be understanding that LE is investigating but also supportive of his parents (probably because he has been given no more info than we have from authorities as to what the concerns are) and LE who claim they received reports of abuse.

 

[Mountaingazer]

I know many people who were not victims of child abuse and are quite successful. We don't know if the Stanley's son is a victim nor has he claimed to be a victim of child abuse.

JMO

Exactly! We don't know if he is a victim. You claimed that because he was far too well-spoken and enrolled in college he couldn't be a victim of abuse. That is simply false.

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly! We don't know if he is a victim. You claimed that because he was far too well-spoken and enrolled in college he couldn't be a victim of abuse. That is simply false.

No, I did NOT claim that at all. Nowhere did I mention child abuse. Here is exactly what I posted.

Hard labor how?

I find it difficult to believe the older child in this case turned out so well if the parents are all that screwed up. They did something right with his home schooling if he's been able to go on to college and do well.

 

[Morag]

From the mother:

"Back in the olden days, when a man was beating on his wife, three grown men would go and face that man with what he was doing, but now you have to go to the authorities."

http://medicalkidnap.com/2015/01/18/...al-supplement

I wonder if this refers to the reason "the authorities" came to her house? Perhaps he is beating her, and the children have tried to intervene? Or does she think that three grown men should have come to chastise the parents about whatever...? Although I guess the authorities would have ascertained that she was okay before leaving her with him...